Keep clear of Norway
 

The Norwegian Government did by 2004 issue a ban on the Czeschoslovakian Wolfdog and the American Staffordshire Terrier which are not allowed to import, keep or breed as the dogs are considered dangerous. In the last weeks Norwegian Media a new debate on the ban has arissen. The owners of the Amstaff Majlo - a young Swedish couple - left Sweden for new jobs in Norway. The couple claiming unaware of the Norwegian ban crossed the border accompanied by their pet. Some time later the police broke into their apartment and removed the dog. Fearing the owners would kidnap it the police brought the animal to secret rescue and the owners have to pay approx 400 euro for seeing their dog on a meeting place far away from the unknown shelter.

According to Norwegian law the couple should have been rejected by the border control not permitted to enter Norway accompanied by the dog. In this case something went terribly wrong and most likely the dog will be put to death even if the couple is willing to leave their home and quit their Norwegian employment by returning to Sweden with the pet.

I therefore strongly advice my fellow csv owners not to cross the Norwegian border accompanied by a csv, not even for hollidays. It may be killed just by beeing a dog.

That`s very sad :(
Last year I was on my way to a dogshow in Norway, as I did not have any problems to enter the show with my CSW, I did not think there would be any problems ....fortunatly I wrote you(Per Olav) an email about regulations for entering Norway with my CSW and you warned me not to go, because of the ban ...THANK YOU VERY MUCH :love

Greetings Rolf

But this is TERRIBLE :shock: Who has a right to take MY dog away and kill him, if neither me, nor my dog didn't do anything wrong :shock: It is unhuman :shock:

Hello Per Olav,
what we can tell..................
stupid, stupid goverment.
Your work on "good name of breed" your work on your web is for nothing now. I have really bad feeling from it.
Greetings for you and your family and kiss for "my puppy" :lol:
Hanka

Yes it is a stupid law but at least the media show the readers the sillyness of a law which put to death animals who have never done anything wrong except by beeing dogs. The silent work of having the law rejected is carried on. The last issue of the Norwegian Kennel Club Magazine published an article on "Dangerous Dogs" interviewing some well know dog trainers and behavioural experts who all condemned the law based on lobbyism from people of special interrests. The Society of Behavioural Experts of Pets will carry out a study on aggression among dogs etc. So on the contrary I believe that my site will become even more important by bringing facts relateted to our breed. The site will be renewed and I'm going to beg you all for more pics and maybe articles on our breed - especially related to work and training.

I'm creating a brand new gallery with Mikael as first contributor (thanks Mikael) and my first attempt on a blog is quoted by some newspapers - and of course I'm on Facebook :)

Your baby is kissed, greetings to you and your family and all the members of our forum.

Thanks Olav it was the least I could do :|

Tell me if we/I can do more to help you ???
I will send you more photos ASAP !!!

I was about 1km from Norwegian border last summer in the artic but I did not dear to enter, even if it was only me and the alps that ever would know, I felt the risk was to high...Maby if I did meet some one that would know the breed, and tell, I was afraid to destroy all your hard work...

Way cant they just not send the dog back to Sweden ???
Way kill a inecent animal ??? It sounds like it is against the law of animals right ???

If a nother dog breed in Norway bite someone, by any reasen like a GSD will the dog always get killed ? if not way kill a totaly inecent dog ???

I hope your dog and the Saarloos are safe :(
As aperantly this dog was first aloved to enter, and now might be killed :shock:
It sounds dagerus to be a CsV or Saarloos in Norway !?!

Very best regards / Mikael

The issue is, Mikael that the owners were not aware of the Norwegian legistation and did'nt know the breed was banned. When they crossed the border their legal Swedish dog suddenly became illegal. That why the dog most likely will be put to death.

The keeping of csvs which were inside the country prior to 2004 is no problem given their origin are verified by pedigree and import documents. The Saarloos is still legal but their situation may change.

Hmmmm, But did they not have a approved importation by Norwegian gow ??? To move the dog to Norway ???

Importatiation papers, passport and vaccenation :? or did this family do anything wrong whit the importation ???

And if ? way can it not be returned to Sweden where he/her is leagel ???


Best regards / M

There's no need for import documents between Sweden and Norway for dogs posessed by inhabitants of each of these two neighboring countries. Even if applied for, an exception for this dog would not have been granted. The family didn't do anything wrong except for bringing the dog across the border. Because the dog already was inside this stupid country. Now it's up to our Department of Police to decide. And the Department was the first one to suggest a ban on the breed prior to the law.

Btw. The csv was banned in Norway mainly because American wolfmutts had killed people over there.

Aaaa, sorry I did think one need a importation like bitween Sweden and Finland, Denmark...

Yes that would be better and what I did hope fore, and maby there are to be a importation/request as the law is so very different fore some breeds...

It do not look good :( But do you think they will do one exception and send the dog back, becouse of the media or do you think they will kill the dog to make an example and show there power ???

You mean so colled unpure F1 hybrids whit 50% to 98% wolfblood :(
And I just wont to ask, was not those Wolfdogs less dengarus the GSD and Rottweiler in this report ??? Do not the police in Norway use those breeds and think they are safe :?

Best regards / Mikael

I'm by nature optimistic :p but when it comes to bsl (breed spesific legislation) I'm not, therefore I won't predict a happy ending of this case.

Regarding American wolf dogs/ wolfmutts/ wolf hybrids they may range from high content bastards to dogs with a wolfy look alike. Our 2004 dog law forbid importing dog/wolf mixes regardless of content, which made problems to our racing dog comunity who are importing different types of racing dogs mixes from Canada and the US.

I guess it's commonly accepted that wolf mutts may be more unpredictable than pure bred dogs.

Per,
I can only offer this: look at my web. If you will want some article (but unfortunatelly in english there is not much info) and if you will want some pictures from my website , write me, I send you what you will want.

Hanka

As always you are a true darling :love
I'll do some extra efforts bringing the site updated and then my dear I'll return back to you :p

PO

Per Olav if you want to use any of my videos, just write which one(s) and I will send it/them for you or you can link to the video(s) ;-)
...but I think I have offered you this once before ?

http://www.youtube.com/juniorwolfuno

Greetings Rolf

Sure you did and thanks :p
I'll first convert what's possible from the old to the new picture gallery and then add the new stuff.

I'll be back with my list of wishes - othervise I have a nice program converting YT videos to flash :)

Cheers

that is so wrong, that the govement makes the mistake of not informing them and now they will lose ther pet. at least you would think that they would give them the chance to find a new home for it or for them to move away...i feel so sorry for them..:evil:

the couple need good solisitor to get reprieve for this dog, it is obvious a genuine mistake on the owners behalf that they where not aware of the law, but it was serious mistake by the border patrol to have let the dog enter Norway, the solisitor should explane what has happened putting the blame soley onto the border patrol, they should ask that the dog be taken back to the border and handed over to the owners so they can rehome it, it must be made very clear that the border patrol failed to do there job correctly, if they had of the owners could have returned the dog to Sweden and this mess would never of happened. it is sad the complete encompedence of the border patrol could cost this dog its life. have you the address of the people to legally contact on this matter? regards pacino

Are there any border patrols on the border of Sweeden and Norway? :roll:

I think there might be somewere :ehmmm between the borders down south...

But where I have pass there was nothing, I do not know where they did pass ??? But I think it is like crossing any border they control only 3-4% of the cars that pass or even less ;-)

As if you go to Sweden from Finland whit Silja Line you can pass fri on a sunday :lol: as they do not work at the border control at that harbour on sunday ;-)

Regards / Mikael

Geology students from Vilnius university go for practise on summers to Norway and they usualy pass the border from Finland to Norway :) And there is no border patrols :roll: My dog might have been crossing this border two years ago :shock: Scary.

The couple has crossed the border several times without beeing questioned about their dog and now the Norwegian Kennel Club is supporting the couple by asking the police to think otherwise. The law make it clear that the the couple should have been informed before the police intervened by breaking into the apartmenet in the owner¨s absence. (The single person present was the mother of the owner - a Polish speaking woman with no knowledge of Norwegian). Nevertheless - according to the police the dog showed aggressive behaviour by barking (!!) at the officers as they entered the flat.

Most likely the police will defend their superiority by putting the dog to death unless the Head of Police decide otherwise. On facebook more than 10.000 individuals are supporting the couple and a petition is by now signed by more than 2.000.

The owners of Imbus spent their summer hollidays in Norway with Imbus. http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/pl/gallery/subcat/0/926/ http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/pl/gallery/subcat/0/917/ http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/pl/gallery/subcat/0/936/
They seem to have been lucky! :)
Per Olav, can we do anything to help save the dog?

For sure, stationary and mobile units. You have the oportunity to pass stationary customs on "green" which means "no matters of interrest" or on "red" if you have matters to declare before entering the country. There may be mobile units patrolling the borders independently at a distance of approx 40 km off the border zone.

Could you please post a link of this petition?

We do not have border patrol that far up in Scandinavia as there is no one passing or to less even in the summer ;-) and in the winter we do not even know where the borders are, as we can not se the white lines on the ground because of all the snow :lol:...and ho would be passing there in -40`c and about 2,5 meter of snow I wounder...

Just kidding...

Best regards / Mikael

Maybe a mail to the Department of Police? I'll request information by the guy running the facebook group in support of the dog.

And yes, Imbus is certainly born under a lucky star :)

The e-mail address to the Head of Police is [email protected] . My advice is to keep a "sober tone" appealing the authoryties allowing the dog transferred to Sweden. Harsh words may reduce the dog's possibility of survival.

Wow Per ! You are either brave or crazy :lol:

Regards / Mikael

Hmm, but if a lot of people will start sending e-mails won't it make the police even more serious (in the bad meaning) about this? :roll: Nobody likes spam...

You may be right :p - on the other hand - this case has raised a lot of "noise" in the media - and on the facebook group the e-mail address to the Head of Police is published for those who want a more "direct approach" to the HoP.

I think there is a big chanse that this e-mail box is also now temporery out of use ???

Best regards / Mikael

Hardly. This is the official postbox to the Department of Police :)

My intention was not to create a thread on this particular case, just a warning what may happen to csv's crossing the Norwegian border.

Yes I understand, and I think we are to be very happy this topic is not about Imbus,
(Hronec, Uno, or any of Vaivas dogs...)

Thanks for the worning(s)

But please keep us apdated in the Majlo matter...

Best regards / Mikael

People! The Norwegian government made really good steps trying to protect country from aggressive Wolfdogs. We have already documented cases of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs killing Norwegian(?) elks.... :|

It started over three years ago:

http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...Dewi-i-los.jpg

and last till nowadays...

http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2009/3/...04-8755056.jpg


PS. It is sad we all must remove Norway from the list of countries which are a nice place to spent the holidays but as we saw on Wolfdog stupid regulations and decisions change. They go by as the people who made them.... :twisted:

LOLIt's truly sad that this versatile breed is no longer allowed in my country - but the Kennel Club, experts and "ordinary people" are fighting to invalidate the existing law.

How can they recognize that my dogs are czech wolfodg ? On passports i can write simply "gs-husky mix" (in Italy is possible) and live happy and visit norway freely!

Or not ?

I'll put it this way: By 1991 the American Pitbull Terrier was prohibited in Norway. Some years ago a dog mix was seized by the Police claiming the dog was a Pitbull Terrier mix. When the case was brought to court a Swedish professor stated the dog most likely was a mix of a Amstaff Terrier and one or more other breeds/mixes but since the excact origin of the dog not could be verified the dog was put to death.

In my country dogs are killed just on suspicion of beeing a banned breed or a banned breed mix or even looking like one.

So this actually means that the best thing to do would be to get false papers that you wolfdog is in fact saarloos wolfdogs as they are not banned... Nice.

Well, Norway is too cold for me anyway... But I keep my fingers crossed that this stupid thing will pass away...

Personally I would not take the risk that someone might think the dog is CSW and not SWH ...as the goverment of Norway will kill your dog even on suspicion :( even that their might not will be many CSW/SWH experts in Norway, I love my dogs too much to take that risk !

Best thing to do will be sending Per Olav good photos and videos of CSW working, interacting with children and so on, to help Per Olav promote our breed as a dog of good character and vertisile use ;)

Greetings Rolf

Well ;) The very best is to avoid crossing the Norwegian border accompanied by a csv. On the other hand the breed is almost unknown to the public and the police. As a general rule no one are aware of the ban of our breed while the banning of the Amstaff is known to everyone due to media publisity.

The Norwegian Kennel Club and the Norwegian Society of Animal Behaviour Experts and some dedicated dog owners are working for changing the law. As a result of this I've registered increased number of visits to my homepage. Rona, Mirek, Mikje and Stefanos articles have been positively commented on different web foras and the hits on the gallery have increased as well.
--
Per Olav

I was a foreign vistor to Norway I would not risk the life of my accompanied dog. If the dog was seized and captured in a shelter the owner has to pay for its keeping, which may raise to several thousand euros before the case was brought to court. And the courts descission is predictable when it comes to banned breeds or suspected mixes.

The best way to have the law changed is by educating our government and the Norwegian public. I look forward to receive Rolf's pictures and videos. Maybe other like to share some as well? ;)
--
Per Olav

Per Olav, of course you can use also my pictures. They are all on wolfdog. Maybe the agility ones are interesting (dog Baby Tribec).

Sure I like to. Thanks. Maybe it be possible to reach you by the personal message board? I'd prefer to present the pics by 800x600px. Most of the wolfdog.org pics are lesser sized compared to that, and on my new gallery i have the oportunity of adding more info - please have a look at my presentetation of Mikaels pictures :)
--
Per Olav

I have tracking photos (forest and feeld) if you need. ;-)

Perfect :lol: I'll send you a PM when I'm "organized" ;)
--
PO

Put to death by 8th of May
 

According to media the Norwegian Police Authoryties has decided to put the American Staffordshire Terrier Majlo to death by 8th of May this year. His "crime" was crossing the Norwegian border with his owners who did not know of the Norwegian ban of the breed. In addition the owners must pay a considerable amount of money for keeping it sheltered.
--
Per Olav

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock: I don't belive!!!!:evil::evil::evil:

Per: educate goverment? This sounds like grim joke. Goverment teach you, not other way.

One solution: f... norway and write about their fascist aproach.

As for our breed - the csv - I'm trying to educate the best way I can :) Banned breeds are more or less common in a lot of other countries, my country is no exception from the rule, but I've never heard of any innocent dog beeing put to death as this dog. With some flexibilty from our authoryties the dog easily could be returned to a new home outside my country. it's a shame.
--
Per Olav

Norway has a very detailed website which answers a lot of questions - also about banned breeds. If someone wants to change the country he has to inform himself before.

Nevertheless: we´ll never understand the bureaucrats - in no country.

Hello again Per

What do the media and the people of Norway think about this decision ???
Sounds like political suicide for this government to me, if all people is against it :?

I did not think Norway still had death penalty, aseptically not for innocent animals…

It is not just cruel, but weak to, is this the message the government and police wont to
send out to the rest of the world :ehmmm

Will the government and police sleep better at night now, when decided to kill the beast ???

If I lived in Norway I would have trouble sleeping knowing that the government and police do kill pets for fun...

Sad regards to Majlo and family :(

If we put put personal emotions and feelings aside, - they don't. According to law the breed is banned and Majlo illegally imported. Beeing a bit cynical: certain types of drugs are also illegally imported and will not be returned to the country of origin when discovered by national customs or police.

Of course the Majlo case is a sad one since an innocent animal is put to death due to the ignorance of its owners. But in this case the owners are to blame and no one else.

In a wider perspective the law allowing innocent animals to be put to death due to breed spesific legislation has to be changed and that is one of our aims when fighting against the law. The Majlo-case has been mentioned in our media as an example of cruel animal welfare and people are still hoping for a change by allowing the dog exported to its country of origing.

But if this had happened to a csv no one would care - the breed is commonly unknow to the public and not unlike Sweden the hate to wolves are strong among certain groups of our community.
--
Per Olav

Per, can I ask you a question, how do Norwegian police know the breed of foreign dog? Do they check veterinary passport or they have right to suspect some prohibited breed without making official expertise?
In case of pitbulls and staffordshire terriers, it's hard not to recognize this breed, but CsW could "accidentally" have veterinary passport with "laika" (Siberian hunting dog) or "mix" in place of breed, and it will not be so suspicious.

From http://www.mattilsynet.no/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dangerous dogs
Published: 12.09.2005 Last updated: 14.03.2006
[i]Dangerous dogs means dogs/breeds which are particular aggressive, willing to fight and persevering, and because of these characteristics are dangerous to humans and animals. It is prohibited to keep, breed or import dangerous dogs. It is also prohibited to import semen and embryos from dangerous dogs.

Dogs of the following breeds/crossbreeds with the following breeds are considered to be dangerous:

• Pit Bull Terrier
• American Staffordshire Terrier
• Fila Brasileiro
• Toso Inu
• Dogo Argentino

Also dogs that are crossbreeds of dog and wolf are considered to be dangerous.

----------------------------------------

There isn't any info that the dog could put to death even if he is innocent of any crime!

And no mention of CSV or Sarloos, they are recognised breed and now are DOGS like german shepard...if I walk in Stockolm, who decide that my dog is a wolf, a wolf mix or a dog? And they could take my dog and kill him ? :shock:
Why can't put back the dog where he came from?

In Italy every week arrive many and many poor boat-people from Libia, they are "illegal self-imported" in our country...what should we do ? Kill them all ?
:roll:


p.s.
I'm not blaming the owner of pitbull, but I blame who made so stupid law and who votes them at the election day.:evil:

...of course I can walk in Oslo with my Caucasian Ovcharka...a very friendly dog :stupid

Hi.

As for which breeds are banned Navarre qouted the complete list of Norwegian banned breeds. Except for Amstaff and CSV they all were banned by 1991 and no individuals from before 1991 will be present here today.

Amstaffs and CSV's imported before the ban are fully legal but the owners have to prove their origin by offical documents like pedigree papers etc.
Of course the owner may fake the papers of the dog, but on suspicion the police may shelter it for further investigation and if in doubt the animal may (not necessarily ) be euthanized. If such attempt of faking the dog's papers is discovered the dog most likely will be put to death,

As Navarre writes the dog might not be killed, but for now no trials has ended without a death penalty.
--
PO

PS. Both the prosecutor and the prosecuted may use experts if they like. Last year a dog was seized on suspicon of beeing a Pitbull mix. The procecuded owner called a Swedish expert who concluded that the dog most likely NOT was a Pitbull mix. The prosecutor overruled the expert and the dog was put to death. The term MOST LIKELY made the difference of life or death and how can one prove the origin of a mix?

I think that tourists should be made AWARE that their pets could be killed during their holydays in Norway.

Per, I'm not a lawer, but we live in XXI century, and final word must come from genetic tests, if we talk about official suspicion and trial procedure.
My question was mostly about situation of short stay or transit. In some countries, police strongly believe in written paper with a stamp in such situations.

Like you I'm no lawyer and know little of genetics but I believe is it not possible above doubts to prove the ancestral heritage of a mix or even a pure bred dog?

As of transit: here is a official document from our Ministry of Justice and Police.

Based on rumours of illegally imported Amstaffs by the use of fake documents the police in one of our counties made a razzia and captured and sheltered some dogs. Their future are told to be quite uncertain.
--
PO

I know what you mean, but just to put in order: you won´t have any problems in Stockholm but in Oslo ;-)

Breed genetic test is not so precise, as personal genetic identification or nearest relatives identification. Veterinary department of Mars Inc. offers DNA breed test for mixed dog owners with 90% accuracy (it is based on gene statistics, collected from 13000 dogs, as they say). But they say in FAQ:
- Can this test be used by regulatory/animal control officials to determine whether breeds are legislated or banned in a particular community? - The WISDOM Panel™ MX is designed and intended to be used solely to identify the genetic history of a mixed-breed dog and no other purpose is authorized or permitted.
But anyway, if judgment is based on presumption of innocence, prosecutor have to give evidences, that suspicious animal belongs to prohibited breed.

Nope :) On the contrary. Like the Norwegian law on drugs the procecuted bear the responsibility of proving earned money come from other sources than distribution of drugs, the owners of assumed banned dogs or mixes thereof are responsible of proving their dogs are not. Theoretically the authoryties may sit with hands and legs crossed waiting for the evidence provided by the procecuted. And again - if there is a slightest doubt of the heritage of a assumed banned dog or mixes thereof its future life may be disputable.
--
PO

No, Natalya, it´s based on state-determinations.

Again: on the official page of Norway everyone can find a passage about the obligation to introduce his dog while entering Norway. If you follow this obligation nothing happens because they will send you and your dog home.

Does everyone here want to avoid state-determinations? :rock_38)

Well, the problem is different in my opinion - much more philosophical. Namely in some states, some authorities and administrators keep forgeting that law has been created to serve people and protect them and not the other way round. People (policemen, judges etc.) are not robots and should apply legal regulations with the understanding of their deep meaning and purpose that stands behind them. Law without a "humane face" and mercy is a total misunderstanding and a mockery of itslef :evil:

ehm...sorry !
:oops::oops:

http://pollycoke.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/somaro.jpg

You're forgiven :p
--
PO

Really nice picture - thank you :)

You´re right, Rona, as always :) But I´m too old to be as idealistic as you are 8):)

On the other hand I do not doubt the good intention of this determination/law. Unfortunately it was not carried out well. Or an example should have been stated. Who knows? There are not much background informations.

Anyway: this sad situation could have been avoided by the dog´s owner.

I will forgive you to, but only if you invite me for a cup of Italian coffee :kaffee :rock_3 :lol:

Very best regards / Mikael, Stockholm

Yes I agree whit Per Olav and you on this point, but did the owners know ??? I do not think the CsV owners of Imbus knew about the risks of going on a holiday to Norway last summer...

And I do not think the crime is of the proportion of death penalty neither...

Maybe 5000 Euro in penalty fine and deportation from Norway would be a penalty more easy to understand :| but death for the only one of the family members that is absolutely innocent is not OK :evil:

Regards / Mikael

Angelika, for me this is no idealism, but common sense. :lol:. If my generation had obeyed law in 100%, my country (and many more) would still be communist now :p. If my grandparents had obeyed Nazi law, their Jewish friends would have been exterminated :cry:, etc. I belive there are principles more important than legal regulations - law can be changed, but it won't return Majlo his life.:cry:

Don't misunderstand me - I'm all for following legal regulations, for reporting law breaking, for getting informed about regulations in other countries, etc. (NB just yesterday I persuaded my two female students not to join their male friends on a cycling expedition to Iran - at first they didn't belive me and thought I was joking when I told them they'd for sure end upin jail :|) But I'm against executing legal absurds.

Killing any creature "just in case" in a democratic country in the 21c - for me is a legal absurd, just as for all those, who signed the petition. Aren't there any lions and tigers in zoos - things happen - they might escape one day! Not to mention all the muggers and murderers walking free in the streets in serach of victims...

Hi Rona,

I think at last we reach the same conclusion, albeit on different ways ;-)

It has been the fault of our generation to educate the present generation to be so "extremely" self-confident. Seems they are thinking: here I come - nothing can stop me - I don´t care about laws or political conditions in foreign countries ...

It would be better to reflect, to inform themselves, to take important things seriously.

That´s why I´m repeating myself again and again (but I assure you of stopping it now :lol:).

Maybe it has been the aim of Per Olav´s topic too.

Kind regards
Angelika

I promised to keep you updated on the fate of American Staffordshire Terrier Majlo who the Norwegian Authoryties will put to death because of he illegally crossed the Norwegian border accompanied by his owners. The Norwegian Breed Spesific Legislation states that Amstaffs like CSVs are banned breeds here. Here is the owners home page.

Per Olav, could you please brief us on the present situation of Majlo? By looking through the links provided by Majlo's owners I guessed he was still alive in October, which could be a positive sign and raise some hope?

I received an answer to my letters to the Norwegian Police and Ministry, but they sounded neither optimistic nor promissing, just neutral. :|

Still status quo.
One trial has been held where the judge decided to let Maijlo leave for Sweden. The procecutioner protested and Mailjo is still kept hidden and shelterded, The case is now waiting for a new trial by a higher court.

Last update.

The higher court has decided that Majlo shall live. Most likely he will stay in Poland in custody of the owner's brother-in-law.

Thank you all for supporting the Majlo case.

:klatsch:klatsch:klatsch to the higher court :)

Do they still have to pay $$$ for every month the dog was in captivity ??? Or are they and Majlo Free from it all now ???

Best regards / M

By now the media do not tell if the owners have to pay the sheltering and the prosecutors may even want to have the case finally solved by the Supreme Court.
--
po

Good news!:lol:

Hope for the best even if Supreme Court is involved. It is ridiculous to put owners and their dogs through such things. I mean, if you are persona non grata, they will just send you back home and even pay your fare, not put you to prison and threat to kill you. And you have to do something bad to get that status...

I would just like to precise that Saarlooses are 100 % legal in Norway since its maybe not said preciesly enough in this topic so people might think that both Saarloos and CSV are illegal while its only the CSV.

Especially when reading things like this:

Quote:
"I hope your dog and the Saarloos are safe :(
As aperantly this dog was first aloved to enter, and now might be killed :shock:
It sounds dagerus to be a CsV or Saarloos in Norway !?!"

People can get confused and think that both of the dogs are illegal in Norway. And I write it here cause the forum is called "wolfdog.org" and most people looking for a wolfdog end up here searching in google and so it would be bad if they got the idea that all wolfdogs are banned in Norway.

Hi Per it is very unfortunate the position of CWS in Norway, but it is not the general public you need to educate on the CWS but the authorities who make the rulings, yes public support will help but after it becomes a long battle they fall to the wayside, i had lots of support in 2001-2003 then it faded away,people lost hope and give up because it was the local government we were taking on, i was left with my wife and 3 good friends to continue our struggle for our CWS, i had to move home many times to protect my dogs from being siezed by authorities, my self and other owners risked going to prison, but we kept on phoneing and writting, in 2004 we had bit of success as we got person from local council out to look at our dogs, we did not tell him what they where, we asked him to go in with every dog, we let him take one for walk and have play about, we then asked him his oppinion and he said they are great, then we told him what they where,,,,,,,he had never heard of them, yet he had the power to remove and destroy all our dogs,,this is typical of local government laws,,, even the top authority DEFRA admitted they had never seen a CWS, when i went onto and got copy of DANGEROUS WILD ANIMAL ACT the CWS and SAARLOOS where listed, when i read all the facts they had on wolfdogs it was 99% about wolfdogs and attacks in USA, it then took over a year to get it across that the CWS was different to the wolfdogs of higher content in USA, in 2006 we got a person from the top department to visit again he seen nothing wrong with our wolfdogs, but kept saying but they are used by the army,, we said so are the GSD,,and many other breeds. IN all everyone who visited had different views in there heads as to what the CWS are and are used for, so we adventually got them all in same frame of mind that they are a wolfdog and that they are domesticated but are not for everyone, just as many other breeds of dogs are not for everyone, it is hard work to draw the ballence and to get the people who count to change there minds and there views on CWS, especially when they have been trained to do a job to remove any animals that they think has wolf content,,,again they are trained,( from photos) as not one single person who visited had every seen a CWS, they had no idea what they where till we told them,,,,, in november 2008 we had a big party the law was changed in u.k. hard work, many phone calls, lots of letters, i even got articles put in dog magazines, i had letters from vets, breeders in Europe, friends who had visited, we just kept up a constant pressure on the authorities, not over the top ,but just a pain in there ass once a week every week, to let them know we where not going away.....it took long time, and i admit many times i felt like just giving up, but when i would go out and see my wolfdogs and have a play, it puts fire back in your heart and makes you more determand to go on. select your team, one writes the letters, one makes the phone calls, one must seek visit from local authority, this can be tricky and we done it on nuteral ground to protect owner and dog, but it paid off, also you have CWS used in advertising, in films, rescue work, dont forget all the dog shows all over the world they can attend and at all levels including world dog show,,, gather every scrap of evidence you can get for you will need it all, and draw a big line between what they bred and own in USA. good luck if we can help contact us.
on a brighter note i tried to up load a pick to the web site but failed... i have trained one of my cws bitchs called IMAN to round up my chickens, photo is on my web site, best regards Paul and Mandy u.k.

Hi Paul and thanks for you message.

Here's a brief summary of the background.

Prior to 1990 there were no general law of how to keep dogs in my country. There were a lot of regulations "hidden" inside other laws, like laws for protecting the wild life, livestock, animal welfare, neighboring, park regulations etc etc.

By the mid 1980 several countries implementet laws on dagerous dogs - and Norway followed the general trend by prohibiting "fighting dogs" like the Pitbull and three more "excotic" breeds nobody at that time haven't heard of. Today no one - even the Kennel Club or our Authorities can explain the reason of the Norwegian ban - the couple of dozen Pitbulls residing inside our border made no harm to anyone.

By mid 1990 our lawmakers decided to put all regulations related to dogkeeping in one general law.

By 1990 a kid aged 5 was killed by a Polar dog breed while playing unattende inside the courtyard of his divorced mother's home. The dog was owned by the mothers new friend and the animal had earlier shown aggressiveness against people.

Ten years later a boy of seven was killed and partly eaten by a pack of mutts.

The appointed Minister of Justice invited the fathers of the both killed boys and a third one whose little kid was attacked and badly injured by a dog as the Ministry's advisors when preparing the dog law. At a later stage another one attended the group. This one declared himself as a supporter of our national "federation of wolf haters" and popped up like a Jumping Jack anywhere and everywhere declaring the most reasonable way of preventing dog bites was by banning certain breeds and for sure wolfdogs must be banned due to their inheritance frrom the wolf and its history of a dangerous specie. In particular the csv which he wrote had a bad reputation as "killer dog of Eastern Europe Armies" should be banned. His view was supported by the "group of fathers" refering to attacks made by American wolfdogs.

Several meetings were arranged but none the arguments of the Kennel Klub, experts and others made any influence on the Ministry's decission: banning certain breeds was the best way of making an end to fatal dogbites. To end this story: The Amstaff was banned by the request of the Police due to its close relation to the previously banned Pitbull, and the csv by the request of the Ministry's advisors.

By now a new situation has occured which may make a change if properly handled by the Kennel Klub and our experts. But for time beeing my lips are sealed cause it's a matter of police investigation and most likely a possible case for the psyciatrics :)
--
po

Majlo goes to Poland
 

The Supreme Court of Norway has decided to let Majlo free. As some of you know the by Norwegian government banned American Staffordshire Terrier illegally crossed the Norwegian border accompanied by his Swedish owner. Because of this the police requested the dog put to death. After 11 months of secret sheltering the dog is now free and will stay in Poland by a brother of the owners boyfriend. This video show the reunion of the dog and his masters.

The Norwegian Department of Police inform that the law now will be revised. Most likely not in favor of dogs accidentally crossing the border accompanied by owners not familiar to Norwegian laws.
--
po

Congratulations to Mijlo and fam :cake

Best regards / Mikael

Great news!!! What a relief...

On the other hand, it won't probably be easy for the owners to regain Majlo's confidence in them... so much unnecessary suffering, costs, effeorts! :evil:

Do you mean there'd be no hope for a Majlo or another wolfdog?

Just for the information there is a page on facebook about the Saarlooses (where CSVs are also mentioned) http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...2646809&ref=mf which is absolutly free of the "army of wolfhaters" and I think that facebook is also a nice place of informing people about the Saarlooses and CSVs since they are such wonderful dogs that when more people will know about them they will become so popular that no one will be able to forbid them if they dont forbid Rotweilers, Dobermanns and even GSDs before that.

There are also some facebook pages about the CSV but noone of them is a "Orginally Norwegian page"

1. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi....3549669755..1

2. http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Cz....3549669755..1

3. http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Cz....3549669755..1


(By the way before anyone politically comments my avatar on facebook, its there just as pure irony that facebook dont allow "very right side symbols" but they think its absolutely ok to have a pic of the greatest massmurderer in history (Stalin murderd more people that Hitler&Mao together) and this is not a political comment just explanation for people who might wonder why the ironic avatar I have on facebook)