Proposed banning of CSV and SW in Norway
 

For your information.

The Norwegian Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Ministry of Enviroment are
working on proposal of banning the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (CSV)and the
Saarlos Wolfhound (SW) breeds in Norway.

The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) is immiment to launch a news
feature in disfavour of the two breeds on the TV.

The Broadcasting Corporations reporter on the subject, has illegally copied
pics from my CSV homesite. If I don't participate in the programme to defend
the breeds, the reporter will use the pics stolen from my homesite. I will by
no means participate in this event.

Regards

Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

As Per Olav, I am extremely concerned about the proposed banning of the CSV
and SW in Norway (and I don't even have a CSV). It is extremely worrying when
also the largest television channel, with most viewers, wish to make an
unfavourable presentation in the news. They do unfortunately have a large
impact on public opinion - and the authorities.

So far, they have concentrated on Am.staffs and Pitbulls. This is not quite
unreasonable as there are some criminals that have trained such dogs for
dogfighting (stealing unattended family dogs to use as training opponents) and
also, through maltreatment, there are individuals that are extremely agressive
towards humans. (However, it is grossly unfair to propose banning of am.staffs
as the majority of am.staff owners have nice and agreeable dogs, but I
digress.)

This with the CSV and SW is something "new", and may be inspired by the latest
developments in the wolf situation in Norway. Last week there was an episode
where 18 sheep were mauled and killed by wolves ("wolves or hybrids" as they
said in one newspaper) quite close to a village (along the road to the local
school). This has been intensely covered by mass media with an angle only
suited to severely frighten people. In addition it has been reported that
there will be a proposal for the implementation of sheepfree sones for wolves,
where farmers will not be encouraged to graze their sheep in summer. (In
Norway farmers have a right to graze their sheep - completely unattended - in
the mountains, forests etc. They are endorsed for any loss of sheep to wild
carnivores. While the sheep are out "on pasture" the responsibility for the
sheeps' safety lie on the authorities and the public, eg. any dog on the loose
in grazing area can be put down, irrespectably of whether it chases sheep or
not. A total of appr. 130 000 sheep die each summer season, an appr. 20 000 of
these, are killed by wolverines, eagles and so forth. The number that can be
connected to wolf is less than 1000, but I think it is the most hated of all
our wild carnivores).

The result is that the rural population is in an uproar due to the
infringement on their rights and in addition people are frightened by the fact
that wolves have appeared in the close vicinity of a village. Couple the looks
of the CSV and SW with wolf phobia, throw in the CSV's military background and
use for eg. IPO, and you get something that the media love to present from the
worst possible point of view. They don't really bother with finicky details
like that there is a difference between wild wolves, hybrids and the
wolfdog-breeds. Nor do they care about that there are very few of these dogs
(especially the CSV) in Norway and that, Per Olav for one, is the most
responsible of owners. The authorities are "easily" pressured by what is
reported in mass media, so this is really terribly worrying.

Regards Tonje

P.S. I finally met Per Olav's "little puppy" yesterday. What a wonderful
aquaintance! Cziky is extremely friendly when he says hello to people, is
quite marvelous together with other dogs, putting them at ease and playing
with them. Looking at him in action, one could easily forget that this is not
just a big, friendly chump (Cziky put on quite a silly behaviour when
attending to "the ladies"..). Sadly I can not say the same about my little
basenji who was quite willing to take on even big and formidable Cziky. He
just turned away and stayed away from her when she bared all her dainty white
teeth and snarled and growled at him, no skin of his nose! Certainly a case
of "big nice wolf" meeting "little bad wolf" (like the Disney cartoon, but in
reverse).

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

Hi my friend Per Olav,
am schocked about the news, which come from Norway. Am ready to help you with full
my power and knowledges (you know me). If you will need something, let me know.

I cross the fingers for you and for kick out the stupid people, not only in Norway

Pavel with whole pack

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds in
 

As far as I know, the three major actors on the "banning" side are The
Ministry of Justice, The Ministry of Environment and!! The Norwegian Kennel
Club (and of course the Norwegian Broadcasting Corp where its News
Department not is in favour of neither wolves nor wolfdogs).

Most imminent is protesting against making a most subjective (and opinion
creating) feature in disfavor of the two breeds. The Norwegian
Broadcasting Corp (NRK) has appointed the CSV as the most "dangerous"
one with respect to its origin by the former Czechoslovakian Border Forces.
Regarding this, it is sad to mention that this image is created by
Norwegian Saarlos owners. The Saarlos owners were at first addressed by the
NRK to stand up and fight for the breed. They refused and "handed the ball
into my hands" claiming the CSV was a more dangerous breed and as such a
more interesting object for the News Department. This tactics worked out
perfectly and the Saarlos owners are hiding in the trenches :-)

I don't know if it will be of any help addressing the Norwegian
Broadcasting Corp and its News Department by protesting of bringing the
breeds in a disfavour able point of view.
If this should be done, it must be carried out in a strictly non emotional
way. It also show bad journalistic ethics by illegally copying background
material from a private home page.

If anyone should like toprotest against the upcoming feature, the mail
address of the news department is mailto:[email protected]

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds in
 

Hi,
I think, that if is in process just the Norwegian Kennel Club, then is
situation very disgusting. I mean, that should be organisate a protests from
kennel clubs of countries of origin (Czech and Slovak). They can protest by
FCI, because if Norwegian kennel club support this case, then goes against the
FCI basic policy and philosophy. National kennel clubs are here for support the
FCI recognised breeds and not for organisate restrictions against.
Per Olav I suggest, write a letter to both CsW Clubs in this countries and ask
about help. My opinion is, that this is one of most important mission of this
clubs - support our dogs around the world.

Here are adresses :
KCHCSV
Ing.Karel Hartl
Plzenska 75
160 00 Praha 6
Czech republic

KCHCSV
RNDr. Maria Glosova
Priemyselna 261
905 01 Senica
Slovak republic

Pavel

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

Just a short note to wish you well.

Mark (hopefully a future csv owner) in England

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdogbreeds in N
 

Hi my friend.

I'll do that, but first I have to do some investigation.

Thanks for all support.

Regards

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

Sorry to hear that.
I'm a Saarloos wolfdog owner myself, living in Belgium,
In my opinion it would be better that those swh owners should cooperate with
csv people in Norway .
Stupid and sad!

Gr.
Roger
Belgium.

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

I do agree. In particular when it's a only dozen or so SWs and a single
(or maybe two) CSVs.

---
Per Olav

R: Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

Hi Roger
From Italy
I also am an owner of Saarloos wolfhound and I have also 8 CSV .
I agree with you and I am ready to cooperate with all the people of our CSV
Club.
Giancarlo

R: Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

Hi Giancarlo,
I just wrote Per an email invitation to become a member of the internet club
of swh people
with members in Belgium, Holland and Germany.
Let's see what we can do and I hope of a lot of reactions from people all
over Europe who care as wel as for the CVS as for the SWH.
Both are registred "wolfdogs" and if they bannish the wolfdog in Norway than
it is as well for the CVS as for the SWH, hope they'll realize it!!!!!!

gr.
Roger.

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

Hello everybody,

This is very sad to hear, and i think, the most biggest
problem to me, because one of my puppies is going to Norway, as he get the bloodtest ok.

Now i don't know, what to think anymore.

I also have a Saarloos, and 3 adult CsV (+ 4 unsold puppy....) at home
and i never understund some Saarloos people, their attitude against CsV
and specially one Norweigian people i never forget....

I think, there is only one Saarloos breeder in Norway, "kennel Yoi Inu" http://home.c2i.net/leifn/engelsk.html

I don't know, how many Saarloos is in Norway, --->>>>> Per-Olav?

Something have to do, soon.

I am worried.

Suski, from Finland.

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

see, this what i mean....
this is from that Norweigian breeders homepage...

"In the rest of Scandinavia there are just one known Saarloos Wolfhond, that is a male in Denmark. There are rumours about one in Finland but that is not confirmed to be a Saarloos Wolfhond. Some people sometimes like to tell others that they have a Saarloos Wolfhond, when they actually have an unregistrated hybrid. It is important to see the FCI registration papers to be sure about the breed and also have in mind that this is a very rare breed with total about four hundred individs wordwide. "


We have for sure, 4 Saarloos in Finland
(Xouri Hukka de Louba Tar & Wassili Wolkan de louba tar //
Ben Sarek from the companions of the wind, /// Jade WolfSirius Juara Bastaja)


Suski

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdogbreeds in N
 

No, on the contrary.
Please view the very informative article written by Tonje on this mailing list.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

I have' not viewed the reg# of the Norwegian Kennel Club but I'll do. 6 yrs
ago I visited a Norwegian breeder who then owned some 5 - 6 SWs. According
to him there was about the same number around his part of the country.
Later I've been mailed from another owner having 3 SW and according to my
info at least 2 more have been raised. Just a few are registred by the
Kennel Club due to the common oposition to wolves among a large part of the
population.

---
Per Olav

Someone to help you
 

Thank you, Ann, I'll keep your information in mind.
We also have our supporting Alpha-group ( http://www.alpha-gruppen.com ),
with their expertise, but against our opposite parties.......

Anyway, the first step *might* be to influence the TV News Department of
our Broadcasting Corp. They could do very much harm with respect to wolves
and wolfdogs by sending the feature.

---
Per Olav

Someone to help you
 

OK - but I think the worst by now is engaging in a dialogue with the News Dep.
In opinion the journalist already has made his mind up how to present his
story by
mixing a minimum of facts to a lot of emotions. They always do :-)
And it works!!

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

It is very sad news for us. If you would like to let other people know about
it, if you need signs for petition or you have any other idea about steps
that could help your case just let me know. We own a huge dog related
internet service which is visited every month by hundred of thousands of
people and could publicize the whole problem there.

Greetings,
Margo

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds in
 

Hi Margo.

Commenting the subject would' not hurt, I suppose. However I do assume that
most imminent is preventing the Broadcasting Corp. to publish an article
discrediting our two breeds. By this the Corp is making it easier for the
supporters of a ban to give an image of the necessity of such a law. Maybe
appealing the News department of the Broadcasting Corp of publishing a
neutral comment on the breeds, if any, would stop this discrediting
article. If this is done, such a petition should be written in a most
neutral and non emotional way. But I think, however, that the time is
running to fast and I assume the feature is just to be sent.

In my opinion the next step should be that of addressing the authorities.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

Hi everyone.

Today I phoned a Saarlos breeder who is living in one of the most wolf
inhabited areas of South Eastern part of Norway. He is proven a skilled
breeder and a defender of wolves and by that not well thought of by some of
the farmers in his area.

In his area an accident occurred last week. Tonje (pippen) wrote in her
mail of Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:36:52 like this:
"Last week there was an episode where 18 sheep were mauled and killed by
wolves ("wolves or hybrids" as they said in one newspaper) quite close to
a village (along the road to the local
school). This has been intensely covered by mass media with an angle only
suited to severely frighten people. In addition it has been reported that
there will be a proposal for the implementation of sheepfree zones for
wolves, where farmers will not be encouraged to graze their sheep in summer."

The farmers addressed the Directorate for Nature Management claiming it was
no evidence that the sheep were attacked by wolves, they even might be
attacked and killed by wolf hybrids or wolfdogs. Thus the farmers
requested a ban on wolfdogs. The authority receiving the request assumed
wolf hybrid = wolfdog = illegal breed and implemented the farmers request
to the future proposal of a new common law regulating the keeping of dogs
in Norway.

My friend, the Saarlos breeder, will next Monday see the head of the
Directorate and inform him of the existence of the CSV and SW as FCI
approved breeds. We do cross our fingers :-)

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

As Per Olav's conversation with the SW-breeder shows, it all comes back to
sheep and farmers. Farmers have a significant "say so" in any matter
pertaining to our wild carnivores. The public in general, especially in the
urban areas, are "wobbly" in their attitude to wolf as a species in norwegian
wildlife. Farmers have tried appealing to the urban public, by saying how
terribly their sheep suffer when attacked by wolves/hybrids/dogs and how awful
they feel about that. (However the same farmers let 110 000 sheep die from
other causes in the summer. The sheep die from diseases, fall injuries, eating
poisonous plants, maggots etc.) Concerning the sheep mauled last week, the
local farmers probably view that as a godsend if they want to get rid of the
SWs in the region..

Defending the CSV and the SW in Norway has little to do with any potential
hazard to human beings, one is actually fighting wolf phobia and farmers'
grazing rights for sheep. I think it would be best to try and get the
authorities to understand that there are major differences between wolfdogs
and wolves - to emphasize the differences instead of letting the authorities
focus on the visible similarities. Otherwise one would easily get caught up in
agricultural politics which really is a hornets nest. I don't believe any dog
organisation would stand a chance in that context. If the authorities could
understand that wolf politics is irrelevant to CSVs and SWs, then matters
could be resolved on a more correct basis. How to get them to take in the
"minor" detail that wolfdogs are not wolves but actual dogs, is something
else. Here it would have been appropriate for the Norwegian Kennel Club to
inform the authorities, but the Norwegian Kennel Club is apparently reluctant
to do anything at all.

As for changing the name from wolfdog to something else, I am not sure that
would serve any greater purpose. As an example, there is no antipathy so ever
against the irish wolfhound, though it is called "irish wolfdog" in norwegian
(there is no word for "hound" in norwegian).

Well, for now one can only wait for any development, starting with the meeting
on Monday.
Regards Tonje

P.S. Please correct me if I am wrong Per Olav!

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in
 

hi all,
what is now succeeding in Norway, is not too far from
italian situation so as we wrote some weeks ago (see
the mails from Ezio and Stefano). It seems that
somebody think: "save the wolf and eliminate the
wolfdog, who is nor a wolf neither a dog"....
This is a nonsense, obviousely, but when TV support
it, i worry...

I think the name may be a problem: in Italy many
people say "cane-lupo" (italian translation for
wolfdog) to indicate German shepherd dog (whose
correct italian name is "pastore tedesco").
"Canelupo", moreover, is an old, popular name for many
dogs who seems GSD or wolf.
So, when i say i have Csv, in italian "Canelupo
cecoslovacco", many people that don't know this breed,
ask me: "how is? like a wolf?" but they don't indicate
really a wolf, they indicate a german shepherd dog!
So i have to answer "it seems a wolf, a WILD wolf".

Italian Kennel club doesn't use the name "cane lupo
cecoslovacco" but the name "cane DA lupo cecoslovacco"
(idem for saarloos).
"cane da lupo" in very different from "cane lupo".
"cane lupo" is wolfdog, "cane da lupo" is a dog to
hunt the wolf! (a wolfhound...)
So the name is not a sillines...
In my opinion, perhaps, it would be better if
czechoslovakian friends think to another name for the
breed... "czechoslovakian shepherd"? why not... :-)
but it's only my opinion... :-)))
Hi all

Arnaldo

FW: Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breed
 

(Sorry for replying direct, Ann :-))

I will pass your question to the head ethologist of the Norwegian Alpha-group,
Mr. Runar Naess. Mr. Naess has worked with these problems for a long time.

Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

As far as I can see this is - as you both say - part of the current "wofwar" in Norway, and one way to harm the wolves is to harm the people who fight for wolves. These people involved here has been targeted by wolfhaters (mostly hunters and sheepfarmers) frequently because of their open fight for the wolves in Scandinavia, and this might be one of the ways to get to them. These persons who own wolfdogs don=B4t fear wolf attacs - but human attacs. They can't leave their dogs at home because of the human threats. It's so dirty. The organized hatred against wolves in Scandinavia (both in Norway and Sweden) and the people who stand up for them is overwhelming. We are all subject to investigations and must always be very careful. And, if you own a wolfdog of any kind here, it's always a "mixed breed". In that case, it's as "harmless" as any other dog would be.

Sanna

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

(Did it again - sorry)

Hi Ann.

I don't understand your hostile attitude.

It is a fact that wolf matters have been of major interest in the Norwegian
media for some years as described in the postings from Tonje.
Due to this, the owners of SWs (and now CSV) have kept a very low profile with
respect to their dogs, except that one of education. The Norwegian Kennel Club
did a very good job when the first SW was introduced to Norway by arranging
all matters of formality with respect to the authorities and the breeder.

Nevertheless, the Kennel Club has been rather reluctant in defending "rare"
breeds. The issue of wolf dogs as "dangerous breeds" has never been on the
agenda until last week when (according to my information)some farmers
disliking the defending of the wolves suddenly appointed the SW and CSV as a
target for their hostility. Mainly because of one of their main opponents was
a SW breeder living in the middle of their area.

I'm not sure of what is lying behind your statment quote Yes, one should find
out why because [--]'you'(fanciers) are not doing a very good job if even the
Norwegian Kennel Club does not understand or care or want to help. unquote

The majority of the SW (10-12) and CSV(2) owners have no problem of showing
their dogs in public. The majority of the viewers are very interrested and
found of our animals when meeting them. Spreading information with respect to
the breeds have been one of our major aims. I should like to have your opinion
of what else could be done in an area where hostility to wolves are quite
overwhelming among a large part of the population, and the tension between
those accepting the wolf as a part of our enviroment and those who don't are
very strong.

Regards

Per Olav

FW: Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breed
 

My "away-from-home" html-based mail reader obviously doesn't seem to like me
:-)

Thanks :-)
And yes, I have viewed some US wolfdog pages on the net for some years, and
as you say, the very same problems are now showing here. Unfortunately.

By principle I do agree. On the other hand: why disguise a breed by renaming
it to hide its origin? But in principle I do agree.

In my humble opinon: The level of education is of no importance when you mind
is made up to dislike something, wether it is your neighbor, your boss or i.e.
a wolf :-)

Again: I truly do agree - but - will renaming the wolf stop people from
frightening an animal named "flow" if it appears as an excact copy of a wolf?

I'll sure do that. Thank you :-).

Regards

Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning, and the Norwegian Kennel Club
 

That the Norwegian Kennel Club is reluctant to get involved in the SW/CSV
issue, has nothing to do with education in my opinion. Rare breeds (and mixed
breeds) are not really considered by the Norwegian Kennel Club. I don't think
they would make any stand, unless there was a threat of banning retrievers,
norwegian elkhounds, setters, pointers - or dog shows! Maybe they would rise
to the occasion if banning of/restrictions on breeds like rottweilers, GSDs,
Riesenschnauzers etc. became a reality, but I am honestly not sure. (There is
a lot of talk about banning and restricting dangerous breeds here in
connection with a new "dog law". So far it seems like Norway will go for
restrictions of the type implemented in Germany. Whatever the Norwegian Kennel
Club is doing about that, is not quite obvious.)

Their reluctancy in the case of SWs and CSVs is probably also fueled by the
assosiation to wolves, a debate they certainly don't want to get mixed up in.
There is no Kennel club assosiated breed club for CSVs and SWs (as far as I
know). Even if there was such a club, it is doubtful that that would have any
influence on the Norwegian Kennel Club. We who only are "wolfdog fanciers",
don't have any say either. After all, we don't own a wolfdog so we don't
really know what we are talking about. Therefore Per Olav and other Norwegian
wolfdog-owners stand quite alone here. In addition, as Sanna points out,
having a wolfdog puts you in the category "wolf lover" which makes any support
even less probable.

It would probably be helpful if the Norwegian Kennel Club had become active
towards the authorities, so that one could move the focus away from wolves to
dogs. Even having to discuss whether a dog breed should be considered
dangerous or not, is preferable to having to discuss on wolf related basis.
However, I don't think there is much chance of that happening, unless,
perhaps, if national Kennel Clubs from other countries could pressure the
Norwegian Kennel Club a bit..

Regards
Tonje

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds
 

Hi Sanna.

Although agreeing I don't think we shall dramatize the situation with
respect to the pure wolfdog breed :-)
My experiences is that 99 pct of the people I meet is very friendly and
curious about the breed, asking wether it is a hybrid or what kind of mix.
When i say" it's a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" they never heard of the breed
and start asking questions. Then I start my "missionary work" by informing
of the breed, its background and its use as a working dog.
At a certain stage we unavoidable start discussing wolves and Norwegian
wolf management, and even if we not come to terms, it very seldom
degenerate a hostile debate :-).
Luckily I live somewhat outside the most populated wolf inhabited area, and
by that seldom experience unfriendliness from the sheep farmers as my
friend the Saarlos breeder do.
But until now, I can't say I've met any kind of hostility, neither against
my dog nor me. If the media starts to produce hostile angled features
related to the breed it may happen, - but for now only friendly and curios
attitudes are shown.

Regards
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

Hopefully it stays that way in your case. I dare say - you are lucky...I've met the norwegian hatred very closely, as well as the swedish and some of my friends involved tells me how they are treated.

Your story sounds like a fairy tale to me. The way it should be, and hopefylly will be one day.

Sanna

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

No comments on that part.

Oh well :-) Maybe it's just 'cause I'm old, close to senile - and not so
easily tempered ;.)

P.O.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds
 

As I said - close to senile :0

Please read: Oh well :-) Maybe it's just 'cause I'm old, close to senile -
and not so easily excited ;.)

Per Olav

Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds in
 

Hi Chris.


Well, in a way I do understand your opinion.
From my point of view however, it's like naming an elephant a rhino.
The animal still looks like an elephant and behaves like an elephant :-)
Some time ago Italian Andrea wrote someting like this on this mailling list:
- When I bought my CSV I assumed to get a dog. Instead I brought into my
house an animal looking like a wolf with the behaviour of a wolf.
Nobody, not even the breeder told me that a CSV was more like a wolf than a
dog. -
In my opinion this lead to the following question:
Will it be wise to change the name of a breed whose apperance obviously is
inherited from the wolf, and by its behaviour clearly is showing the
heritage of his ancestors?
Would such a change of name lead to misunderstanding and by that give
potentially buyers a false impression of what kind of breed he or she is
buying?
The buyer of a Czeschlovakian Wolfdog is aware of what kind of animal
he/she is buying because the name of the breed says so.
A Czechoslovakian Sheperd Dog will be someting different. I would not
expect to treat a breed named Sheperd in another way than I do treat other
dogs. This you have to with a CSV.

Regards
Per Olav

Proposed banning of CSV and SW in Norway
 

Hi everyone.
A couple of days ago the Norwegian Television showed a most unfriendly
commentary regarding the CSV and SW.
As I previously wrote, the Norwegian Ministry of Justice is making a list
of proposed banned breeds. The main subject is banning "fighting dogs" or
breeds that may be compared to these, like American Staffordshire Terriers,
Bull Terriers etc. Secondly the Ministry is considering banning breeds
that have proven overrepresented in bite statistics or breeds that might
cause fear to the public by their extraordinary hunting instincts. The
keeping of wolf hybrids is already forbidden, allthough a number of such is
supposed to be kept secretly. Now the time has come to look to the few SW
and the single CSV in Norway.
The Directorate of Nature Management is investigating how close is the
relation between the wolf and the two FCI approved breeds, that is - if
they are a kind of "wolves in disguise" irrespective their FCI approval.
Therefore the owners of SW and CSV are dependent of all kind of statistics
to show the Ministry of Justice with respect to attacks made by CSVs and
SWs upon human, compared to other breeds.
We also should like to have more information on the subject of how close
the relationship between the wolf and our two breeds is. Anyone who can
help be referring to links of offical information or by mailing any kind of
information which may be helpful?

---
Per Olav
http://www.norwolf.no

Proposed banning of CSV and SW in Norway
 

Hello Per,

maybe you can send this asking to the dutch,german en belgian SWH clubs
so they can send information to the Norwegian Ministry.
I place this artikel of you in my club on the internet,if its right?
I know there is a owner of a SWH in the netherlands that goes imigraite
to sweden.

This are the adresses of the SWH clubs.
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Groeten Christa

Proposed banning of CSV and SW in Norway
 

Interesting Christa, maybe you can help me get in contact with this SWH owner?

Sanna

To my czech friends
 

Hi to you all.

One of the major Norwegian oponents of CSV is a Norwegian named Ben Werner.
Mr. Werner claims to have visited some military dog stations in the Czech
Rep in 2000 and 2001 as a member of a group studying rescue and ruin
dogs.Being there he also trained the CSV.
He says he visited Malaky(?) and met among others Monika S (?)
Anyone remembering such a visit and Mr. Werner.

---
Per Olav

To my czech friends
 

Hi Per Olav,

Mr. Werner is maybe little bit disoriented. According my informations
from veterinary base of Czech army, last CsW were by army 10 years ago
and this dogs were just over 10 years old and living in "pension for
seniors" only. Is not true, that in years 2000-2001 were trained some
CsW by Czech Army (you can check it direct by ministery of defence -
http://www.army.cz).

Right name is Malacky and its not in Czech, but Slovakia. If there still
CsW, I cant say, but am very pesimistic. You can ask by slovakian Club
(e.g. by Sona Bognarova - [email protected]).

I know only one person with this initials - Monika Soukupova, which is a
member oc comitee of Czech Club. You can asking by her directly as well.


Pavel

To my czech friends
 

I got something interesting for you. :))
First, it's impossible that he saw CSVs in military dog stations. For
expample we were in Grabstein and they have none. And they trained none
since a very, very long time :))) And I'm 100% sure there are also no
wolfdogs working in SAR in Czech Republic (so far... ;)) ).

He visited Malacky? Yes, we also do this during our trip to Nitra. It's a
very nice town ;))))

And about Monika S(oukupova):
"I don´t know and I don´t remember man with name Ben Werner.
In year 2 000 I am met only with Ammon Ben Izhak from Israel
Search and Rescue Dogs Association. But this Ben living with
all family in Tel Aviv.
I don´t know any Norwegians, personaly.
I having contact with someones only by e-mails.
Best regards, Monika."

Greetings,
Margo

Norwegian situation.
 

Hei all.

Mr. Ben Werner from Norway has informed me that he now is a member of this
list.

Mr. Werner is one of the main advocates of a Norwegian ban of Cz. wolfdogs.
In a letter to Norwegian authorities he claims himself having a knowlege of Cz
wolfdogs and as a reseprentative of the Norwegian Society of Rescue Dogs he
has been visiting the Cz Rep and studied and trained the breed.

In his opinion, Mr. Werner tells, the CsW is a most dangerous breed and should
not be allowed kept and trained by other but highly skilled personell. Mr
Werner also advise against the dogs beeing used as a rescue dog or in field
trials. In his writing Mr Werner consistently is refering to the breed as a
hybrid, well aware of the fact that hybrids are banned in Norway. Mr Werner
claims the dog to be banned from Norway by the reason of beeing most
dangerous to humans.

In addition Mr. Werner insinuate the main purpose of keeping this two breed is
having the oportunity of establishing a new tribe of wolf/wolfdog hybrids in
Norway. Mr Werner says this possibly already have been done by the keepers of
CsW and SW in Norway. For this reason the CsW and SW also should be banned.

I request any information regarding the proposed ban of SW/CsW in Norway not
should be mailed on this list but sent to my e-mail address only.

Obviously we have an active mole in our basement.

Regards Per Olav

Norwegian situation.
 

hei I am Ben Werner!
Im am a private persen and are not i repeat not reseprentesentin of the
Norwegian Society of Rescue Dogs! yes i am a member but not rerresenting them.
It is more wrong in what Per Olaw wrote, but I can not reply at this time.
regards
Ben Werner

Norwegian situation
 

Dear Mr. Werner,
I see that you now are a member of the CSV-list, though your introduction of
yourself certainly was brief.

I find it highly commendable that you are a member of this list. Here you will
find many people with CSVs, and even Saarlos-owners and also, perhaps, will
find true verification of wolfdog properties (though of course such
verification may be subjective, but you don't seem to mind that when it comes
to your own beliefs, so I suppose that works both ways). It will probably also
save you the trouble of calling Per Olav a liar in writing in public (a great
advantage with closed lists, you can keep such things within "the family").

Just to help you along, so to speak, I can inform the other list members that
Mr. Werner finds CSVs and SWs very dangerous, too dangerous to be allowed in
Norway, as he has informed the authorities and explained on television. There
are several things he finds extremely worrying. Firstly that they are hybrids
(as defined by the Swedish Kennel Club) and, as we all know, hybrids are not
acceptable. Another is the CSVs' and SWs' extreme tendency to hunt, so
especially children will be in severe danger. Also he is worried that the
wolfdogs will threaten the wild wolves, as hybridisation is much more probable
with wolfdogs and furthermore offspring of wolves-wolfdogs have a much higher
survival rate than hybrids between wolves and other dog breeds. In fact he
suspects, as he has informed the authorities, that a certain wolf pack in
south eastern Norway, most probably are hybrids of SW and wolf, since there is
a SW owner who lives in the region. He bases his suspicion on that these
wolves behave like SWs (eg. killing sheep close to a village) and that they
are much more similar in appearance to SW-wolf hybrids than any other form of
hybrid.

If you care to respond to Mr. Werners points of concern, be aware that Mr.
Werner will not accept comparison to dog breeds he himself has no experience
with. So you can not compare with sighthounds(greyhounds, borzois etc.) or any
of the polar breeds, but should restrict yourselves to poodle, labrador, GSD
and rottweiler - perhaps you could stretch it to Riesens and other retrievers
as Mr. Werner is a rescue dog instructor, and therefore should have experience
with these breeds as well.

Even though Mr. Werner may not be a formal representative for the Norwegian
Rescue Dogs organisation in this issue, it should be noted that the
authorities have taken his letter of warning to them, very seriously as he has
not neglected to inform them that he is very experienced, has seen SWs and
CSVs in action and is a rescue dog instructor for the Norwegian Rescue Dogs
organisation.

Regards Tonje

Norwegian situation.
 

what a shame that some people have to be that way ;(

Response to Ben Werner
 

Hi Ben and all CsV Friends,

There seem to be "interesting" people on this mailing list. We don't
know if all of you can be considered as CsV friends yet ... We learned
that Ben Werner assumes CsV as dangerous breed and not suitable as
family dog. Well, we have two children and two CsVs. We have owned dogs
through all of our lives among them dogs much less suitable as family
dogs than our CsVs. Our experience with our two CsVs is that they love
children above all.

What comes to hunting, our CsVs are certainly not the most keen ones.
We know many German and Belgium Shepherds that hunt everything that
moves fast - including children. That we have never experienced with our
CsVs. They can make a short run after a deer or cat, but they soon come
back. And they have never chased after children, joggers, bicycles and a
like.

There are two photos of our much loved dogs.

Best regards, Minna and Risto

Norwegian situation
 

Dear Mr. Werner.

If just finished reading Your article on a Norwegion http about Your opinion
of mixing wolves with swh and csv.(complete anti predator article? Are You a
hunter Mr. Werner!)
It is complete nonsens and its very easy to replace the word csv and swh in
your article by for instance german shephard or andy kind of big dog breed.
Im pretty sure You never saw a real saarloos wolfdog and even maby not real
CSV.
On oktober 26 the Belgian Saarloos wolfdog has her yearly club reunion, and
by this I invite You to come and see, there will alse be some CSV's
The day after this , oktober 27, we walk , unleached with about 20 to 25
wolfdogs in a forest nearby, and for this event I also invite You so you can
see for Yourself how CSV and SWH really are .


Greets,
Roger.

Norwegian situation
 

Hi to you all.

Maybe Mr. Werner has made us an unexpected favor :-)

Yesterday and today I called our most acknowledged ethologist, an expert
of genetics and a lawyer.
The two experts concluded unanimously Mr. Werners lack of knowledge of the
subject, and of his way of providing our authorities false
information. They will forward a letter to the Norwegian authorities on
the matter. The lawyer was horrified by Mr. Werners accusations and adviced
to take him to court.

Next week I'm going to see this lawyer. By that we will have a decision of
the court not only of Mr. Werners personal vendetta, but every aspect of
the subject of the legality of importing and keeping of our dogs, the
genetic aspect and the enviromental threat these dogs might cause. Such a
trial should lead to some interresting conclusions, including the
credibility of Mr. Werner.

I'll keep you all informed, and as previously mentioned, any mails of
importance regarding the Norwegian proposal of banning the CsW should be
addressed to me, and not published on this list.
The Saarloos owner is receving information by other channels, but every
piece of information is gratefully received.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian situation - Parker Adams?
 

I think that is WONDERFUL news! Out here we also have people that pretend to
know something that they know nothing about .. but unfortunately, they are
allowed to publicly slander anything they want to (including your dogs) and
nobody can do anything ;(
One such person we know as Parker Adams, he lives in Pennsylvania USA .. and
he claims to know most of you and says he has traveled there many times and
seem how terrible the temperaments are on these dogs. He has even been
consulted on wolf and wolfdog behavior for a book that is being written in
Canada. I have been thrilled to be here and see for myself (from people that
own them) what wonderful companions they can be ;-)

I am going to copy for your records a little bit from this persons notes to
me;

I have many more letters .. but the one below was the first he sent me after
I joined your list to learn more about your wonderful breed.

Is this person someone that all of you know? He has mentioned Margo and Per
Olav among others in his notes to me.

BTW the F____ word is not a nice one here in America ;(

Norwegian situation - Parker Adams?
 

Hi.

Mr. Parker Adams has been on this list for a while :-)
I'm sure someone can tell more, but by now it's close to 1 AM and the bed
is calling :-)
Bye for now..

---
Per Olav

Norwegian situation - Parker Adams?
 

Hi Per,

You are right, I have been on this list since early 1999 and I would like to
explain the email that I sent privately to Tina Barber or "Ma Shiloh" by her
email name here on this egroup. First of all, I am the first to admit that
my email was an overexaggeration (embellishment) of the truth. However, I
did it for a good reason.

Tina Barber is the founder of a nice American breed of dog called a Shiloh
Shepherd. I myself have one but I did not get it from a breeder affiliated
with Ms. Barber for reasons that will become apparent below. The foundation
stock is German shepherd, Alaskan malamute, white German shepherd and other
dog breeds that I am not sure of. There is also speculation and allegation
that there is wolf blood from an American wolfhybrid mixed in somewhere
along the line. Many of the lines of Shilohs have the physical conformation
and behavioral traits of American wolf hybrids. This is based on my
observation of many Shiloh over the last three years and the fact that I
have over 25 years experience with wolves and wolfdogs here in the United
States. Over the last year or so word has gotten out among the Shiloh
shepherd owners that I have experience with wolves and wolfdogs. Some of it
has come from my own inquiry about wolf behavior based on my observations of
the many Shiloh shepherds that I have seen in person over the last three
years.

Because of my experience with wolves, I have received emails, phone calls
and personal visits to my house from people who own shilohs and have had
behavioral problems that they have not seen before in other breeds of dogs
and have not been able to correct or they try to use traditional (forceful)
training methods with poor or disastrous results. Some of these people are
just regular dog owners, some train dogs in Schutzhund, search and rescue,
agility and obedience. Others work with dogs that have behavioral problems.
All of these people have suspected wolf like behavior and that is why they
have contacted me looking for an explanation and help with their problems.
The problem lies in the fact that we only suspect and cannot prove that
there is wolf blood in the Shiloh. Ms. Barber emphatically denies it. It
is a concern to me because if as I suspect, many of the shiloh lines have
wolf genetics then they need to be handled differently than the average dog.
I would hate to continue to see these dogs going to people who do not have
the skills, patience and knowledge to raise a dog with enough wolf blood in
it that it exhibits wolf behavior. I don't have to tell any of you that
the CSV is not a breed for a first time dog owner unless that person has
been well educated and can rely on other owners for help. Some of the
shilohs appear to fit into this category.

With regard to Ms. Barber posting my email and making accusations about me
without knowing the facts, it is not surprising to me at all. I think that
fact that most of the shiloh shepherd breeders do not want to have anything
to do with her speaks for itself as to her integrity or lack of it. All you
have to do is log onto one of many egroups the shiloh zone or shilohs list
to name a couple and you can see for yourself. Her posting of my email on
your egroup and her attempt to stir all of you up and get mad at me is a
perfect example of her underhanded behavior. It does not deserve any more
attention.

When I saw that Ms, Barber had shown up on this egroup, I became afraid that
she would attempt to get a CSV and use it to cross into the Shiloh shepherd
breed. I emailed Ms Barber and made her aware that there were three CSVs in
the US and that one had died of brain cancer. She asked me for the email
addresses of the three people and I told her if she wanted the information
that she had to get it from Pavel or Margo because I was not going to give
it to her. Therefore that is the reference I made to other CSV people. My
email to Ms. Barber was of such a tone and nature and embellishment of the
truth that I had hoped to discourage her from trying to obtain a CSV and use
it for breeding with shilohs. It is my understanding through second hand
information that people have passed along to me that in the past in the
early 1990s Ms. Barber has given or sold some of her shilohs to wolf hybrid
breeders here in the United States and let the shilohs be used as breeding
stock for other wolf hybrids. Therefore, that is why my email that she
posted reads as it does.

My personal exposure to wolves dates back to the late 1960's when a man
named Jack Lynch inherited the Buffalo wolves from Dr. E.H. McCleery in Kane
Pennsylvania near where I grew up. I have personally owned wolfdogs of
various low and high percentages and a pure wolf since the early 1980s. I
know many people that can vouch for my background and experience and can
give you email addresses of people that can confirm my background. I
believe Ann Dresselhaus who has been posting recently knows Monty Sloan and
Terry Jenkins who are two of the most experienced and knowledgeable wolf
people in the United States. These are also two people that Ann can contact
that can vouch for me. Lastly, I have spoken with a few people who live in
Canada that own Shilohs that exhibit wolf behavior. To the best of my
knowledge none of them are writing books and I am not consulting with them
on that.

With regard to meeting CSVs in person, I work for an American company that
has a business in Kosice in the Republic of Slovakia. Prior to one of my
trips to Slovakia, through this egroup I made contact with Ms. Sona
Bognarova. Due to Sona's kindness, she made arrangements with one of my
Slovak work colleagues for me to meet Mr. Nagy, a well respected CSV owner
and trainer in Slovakia . Mr. Nagy took me around and showed me several
CSVs owned by people who live just outside of Kosice. The CSVs that I met
in person, exhibited much more wolf behavior than dog behavior. This may
have been due to the specific lines of CSVs or due to the way they were
raised or a combination of the two. Anyway, both Sona and Mr. Nagy told me
that there are many other CSVs that are very well socialized and do not act
nearly as wolf like as these particular dogs. What I did learn from my
visit with Mr. Nagy and the owners of these dogs is that the CSV is
generally like an American wolfdog in that you have to have the knowledge
and experience to raise a CSV properly. This is not a dog for somebody that
wants a Golden Retriever. To the credit of all of you, that has also been
my impression since I joined this egroup in 1999. I have always been very
impressed with the honesty and candor that all of you express about the
temperament and ownership requirements of a CSV.

Anyway, I am sorry for the long post. However, I just wanted the
opportunity to explain what actually transpired through a series of a couple
of private emails and the reason why I embellished the truth. I apologize
if I offended any of you and the CSV. My intent was not to discredit the
CSV but to prevent the CSV from being used in breeding by the wrong people
for the wrong reasons.

Dovidenia.

Norwegian situation
 

Hi,
am little bit disgusted with the momentaly campaign in Norway. Its me
very sorry, but I dont understand norwegian and all informations comming
to me through my friends. But I feel, that all people, which argumentate
against our dogs, have no experience with it. I know only one person
from Norway, which visited country of origin of Czechoslovakian wolfdogs
- Per Olav Christensen. Althrough, that he dont have so much experiences
with our dogs (exc. his own CsW), its only he, who can speak about CsW
in Norway. All others make the decisions and publish own feeling "from
green table" without any personal practical knowledges and experiences.
I dont know nobody from this people, but I strongly recommended -
please, before you publish something about our dogs, make sure about
really situation of CsW. Maximaly 10 CsW in whole Scandinavia (I dont
know exact number now), its not whole population and its not enought
large sample for make a generally opinion about whole breed. Country of
origin of CsW is Czechoslovakia, so that today you have possibility to
visit 2 countries of origin (Czech and Slovakia). Only here you can see
representatively sample of CsW.
Sure, we dont have only perfect dogs. In population is more problematic
individuals, but they are not typicaly individuals of our breed. Read
first the standard and today recommendation of FCI. All agressive dogs
must be eliminate from breed. And we do it. On October 26th we have a
bonitation and meeting of Club in Czech (Prague). Every time we have
here some visitors from other countries. You are welcome. You can see
more, then 20 dogs (sometimes more) by bonitation and character test.
You can speak here with lot of most experienced CsW breeders, owners,
trainers and with Club experts (Mr. Hartl, Club judges, breeding
consultants etc.). Am always ready to help you with translation.

Pavel

PS : And one notice more. If somebody come from so far, like Norway,
have a specialy chance on the weekend October 26th-27th, because on
Sunday 27th we organisate a competition and meeting of CsW. Competition
is according a basic czech rules and will participate as well a CsW,
which dont have a special training, which dont visited a dog schoools.
Here can be see, how is character and obedience by not specialy traned
wolfdogs.

Norwegian situation
 

you where right

Don't forget there are populations in other countries and there are
breeders they do it for money,so the dogs are buyed by the wrong
people,the same is with SWH.
They used or lovely dogs to cross with other like White Sheperds and
Husky's,it's a shame but they do it.
I told you befor some people like to have agressive dogs.

Christa

Norwegian situation est
 

In the Netherlands we have a test for some breeds ,so then can see of
the dog is agressive,if he or she is,you 're not allowed to breed.We
don't have to do the test with the Wolfdogs,because they aren't known
as agressive.

Christa

Norwegian situation
 

Hi,

Actually the whole CzW breed were developed in regards to its usefulness. As
you know the breeding plan of CzW was under control of Czechoslovakian army
and they made very strict selection during this breeding. The exterior of
the wolf was very important for the army because together with the exterior
the CzW inherited endurance of the wolves and also their ability to adapt to
hard weather conditions. However the main goal for continuing the breeding
was to make the wolfdogs trainable. First crosses were very hard to train
but with special selection the army was able to choose those individuals
which are promissing for work on the border. The true is the army had no
scruples during the selection and there were no such cases as it could
happen when the normal people breed the dogs and say for example "this dog
is aggressive but so beautifull .... maybe we should breed him?". There were
no such dilemmas in army... All wolfdogs which appeared useless in regards
to work were excluded from the breeding. As far as I know every dog which
were used in breeding needed a working title. This conditions changed
recently when the civilians began to breed the CzW and the army was not
longer interested in continuing the breeding. However you should always have
in mind that for a few dozens of years this breed was developed by army in
regards to its working abilities.

Greetings,
Przemek

Norwegian situation
 

Hello Przemek

That's what I call useful information.
You'll have my 2 cents :-)

Norwegian situation
 

Hi.

The Norwegian situation is a more complex one and a "heavenly mix" of
different ingredients.
One is the upcomming proposal of a new "dog law" and its ban of dangerous
breeds/dog.
In a received letter from The Minister of Justice, The Minister writes
something like : It is dependent of the results of the evaluation process
wether these breeds [CsW and SW] are concidered dangerous or not. If the
conclusion is in disfavour of the breeds, the nex step is to decide what
to do with those species already imported to our country.

Another moment is the ongoing debate related to wolves and wolv-dog
hybrids. Tonje has written a mail on the subject. This is copied below
this information.
Mr Ben Werner advocate both sides of the opositions arguments, both the one
of dangerous breeds as well as that of wolf-wolf dog hybrids.

Myself I have not been aware of the manic resistance against our breeds
from certain individuals and groups until recently. On the contrary -
people have been most curious and friendly but the last months the media
has been publishing several unfriendly articles about the subject, and our
main television channel has produced a most unfriendly feature. Mr Werner
was intervied as an expert on our breed, most probably due to an article of
his, published on a net page related to banning of "dangerous" breeds.

Regards

Per Olav

Norwegian situation
 

I must say that being here in the UK, as a silent reader of the list. I
would dearly love a CsW or SW as a pet and companion in my family. I find it
upsetting that no matter where, a breed that is different is a target for
those who 'claim' they are experts. I myself couldn't trust a Labrador as
the temperment is not what it was and are well known for biting children but
they are pushed as being family pets. I really hope that this 'dog
holocaust' comes to an end.
laura
-----

Norwegian situation - the USA
 

We have had this terrible problem in the USA too. Because of a very small
group of people like Mr. Werner there are many states that basically state
that even if a 'dog" has 1% "wolfblood" he must be classified as a wolfdog!
I personally know of one man in NYC that was crossing Husky's and Shepherds
(both parents AKC registered within their own breed) and he sold these pups
claiming that they were "low percentage" wolfdogs. Because he wanted to get
more money for the pups he had! One of them that he sold to a nice family
(a very nice 2 year old pet) had to have his head removed for testing (for
rabies) because the neighbors said he had wolf in him, and had to be
destroyed ;( This breeder even tried going to court to prove that he was a
liar & that there was NO wolfblood in this dog, but they did not listen!

People in this country seem to get hysterical when they hear the word "wolf"
.... so most of the serious breeders have to go "underground" and carefully
select future owners that live in states that are not as bad YET .. but I can
see it happening here & in Canada too .. because of ignorant fools that know
nothing, but talk a lot ;(

Actually that was one of the reasons that I chose to investigate your breed
more carefully. I have a friend here that is training dogs for a new movie
about the Hobo dogs, and was looking for dogs that resembled London. <A HREF="http://www.cedarwoods-k9.com/eisenmann/">
Charles Eisenmann Books - The Littlest Hobo - German Shepherd Dogs</A> I hope
this link works for you, if not you can go to
Http://www.cedarwoods-k9.com/eisenmann

Since your dogs look similar and are FCI recognized, I thought that my
friends would be interested in possibly Importing a few to train for the new
movie. I did ask my brother to contact some of his friends in Czechoslovakia
and asked him to send me more information about this wonderful breed. After
the reports & pictures I received, I was very excited .. especially when I
got reports back that Ing. Karel Hartel thought it would be a wonderful idea.
That is why I found your list & wanted to join to ask more questions (for my
own genetic knowledge as well) but when I realized that you have Parker on
your list, we all felt that it would not be good to go any further with any
potential hopes for the movie ;(

Norwegian situation - Jim & the Shiloh Shepherds
 

I have been watching it in this country for over 40 years .. and it only
seems to get worst ;(

just mention the word 'wolf" out here and everyone panics ;(

this happened to my group several months ago, may I share one of the answer
posts that was written by one of our REAL experts out here to my group of
Shiloh owners & breeders?

Little Red Riding Hood syndrome... EVERYONE Please
READ!

I have to thank all of you, and especially the ones who started the
rumors of the Big Bad Wolf infiltrating the Shiloh's. I have been
laughing my butt off going through all the posts. My name is Jim
Hopkin. Rambo McGuire is my dog. He is deceased now, and is sorely
missed. He died from an over-reaction to anesthesia. He was one of the
best dogs I ever had. He is PURE DOG, NOT a drop of wolfblood in him
that VonStephanitz didn't personally put in his ancestors. He is AKC
all the way. Tina now has a copy of his AKC papers. He is Chani and
Elijah's sire, both of which were born in my house, Elijah (OFA
excellent)on my bed in the middle of the night (don't you just love it
when that happens):-). Elijah and Chani's dams are mine too and are
DOGS. Sorry, no wolfblood in these either. Jett, Elija's dam is at my
feet as I type this. She is a solid black GSD, just turned 11 years
old and can still run like the wind, thus her name, Jett. She dates
back to Phantom vonLeberland, a very famous solid black Champion whose
picture is in most of your good GSD books. Susha was neutered due to
her age and complications from her one litter which produced Chani.
She is a sable bitch and a pretty hard bitch. My ex-girlfriend has her
now that she doesn't have me to protect her. ;-) She is pure SHILOH.
Her mom is Starr, my FIRST Shiloh that I got from Tina more than 12
years ago and is an AKC GSD. Yes, the OLD Shiloh's HAD AKC papers. I
have got to laugh.... hasn't anyone ever watched Discovery channel or
seen some of the good picture books about wolves? Any dummy can tell a
silly dog from a wolf if they just LOOK at them. Even a Wolfdog
(hybrid is a misnomer as dogs are a subspecies of wolf) retains WOLF
traits down to 10-15% that are undeniable. Take a look at Horand
(Hektor)SV#1 if you have access to any of VonStephanitz old books.
"Word and Picture".. ring any bells? Hektor has a pure wolf
grandmother. Ok, for all you conspiracy freaks out there,
VonStephanitz is the guy who INVENTED the G.S.D.in the early part of
the last century. His favorite dog, Hektor, he registered as the first
dog in his registry. SV#1. ALL decent G.S.D. can trace back to him. So
you all have wolfdogs already and didn't know it? Look at his picture
when you find one... that's a quarter wolf. See any of those around
your house? No? well that G.S.D. or Shiloh Shepherd you have lounging
on the couch is probably the closest you will ever get to a wolf. Be
happy that there was a guy smart enough(100 years ago) to breed out
the undesirable wolf traits so you can have an intelligent, loyal,
strong, protective animal as a family member who doesn't thirst for
your blood while you soundly sleep. I'm sorry, that was a little
sarcastic, but I have heard this all before.. bloodthirsty visions of
danger and havoc because of God's dog. I just happen to know a wee bit
about Wolfdogs and wolves as I have served on the Board of Directors
as Director of Standards for the USAWA, the United States American
Wolfdog Association for over 16 years. In fact, the reason I became
interested in Shiloh Shepherds in the late 1980's was due to the fact
that I was searching for a sound, strong, intelligent and loyal breed
of dog with a high "willingness to please" to put INTO MY Wolfdogs.
You see, generally, Wolfdogs lack one thing...... a willingness to
please. Wolves are timid by nature. Hard to believe but true. They are
horrible at protection and are darn near impossible to housebreak. My
idea was to bring some stable DOG genes into my Wolfdogs and get some
animals with a willingness to please. Since I knew the GSD was already
a breed with recent Wolf heritage I searched all over America for the
BEST "old type" GSD and I found 2 places that had GSD that fit my
strict requirements, Tina being one of them. NONE of the big American
show kennels had anything I wanted. I gave up my "project" when my
last Wolfdog passed away at 14 years of age. I am now thoroughly
satisfied and only have G.S.D. and am thrilled that they are from
wolves, even if it was over 100 years ago that their ancestors roamed
the European continent, wild and free. NONE of my dogs have ANY
wolfblood that isn't 100 years old, not one of them. Neither does
Elijah or Chani or BoDog. As far as I know, and I know a few hundred
wolfdogs personally from my work with USAWA, VonStephanitz was the
last person to successfully create a reliable dog breed using
wolfblood. Too bad he didn't live long enough to see the end result of
his efforts.I know Tina likes wolves, and Lisa too, but like me they
know that adding wolfblood to a dog is not only unnecessary but just
plain dumb if you are trying to improve the best darn dog breed
anywhere, the Shiloh Shepherd. I can document everything above for any
skeptics out there. I have a copy of the ORIGINAL stud books, from
Germany, with pictures and lineage's, breedings and VonStephanitz notes
and charts that I tracked over 2 continents, over a period of 2 solid
years from a rumor I heard once from a GSD breeder. My grandkids,
should I have any (my daughter is 17)will get those books. They prove
the origins of the GSD. I also have pictures off all my dogs and all
their pedigrees and papers from the AKC. Let me know what you need to
understand the truth.
OK, now, I understand the misconception that led to this fun and games
is due to a pedigree of Elijah that my brother e-mailed to someone who
wanted to see it. It lists not only his AKC registration # but also
his USAWA registration #. Let me explain something. USAWA registration
#s have a secret code built into them so that USAWA knows WHAT the
animal IS. Is it a Wolf? a DOG, or a cross? I will not reveal what the
codes are for the Wolf and wolfcrosses (due to legalities) but the dog
codes are as follows. The first digits of the registration # that
start with the letter P are DOGS, the letter stands for "PURE" and the
second digit determines the dog breed, in Rambo's case the "G" stands
for German Shepherd Dog. Were they malamutes or Huskies, they would
carry "PM" or "PH" numbers. "PG" stands for Pure German Shepherd, not
Parental Guidance. ;-)
Now, follow me please. Rambo WAS used as stud to a few WOLFDOG
bitches.
OH NO!...... not to worry, he was also the sire of a few DOG litters
too. Pretty cool eh? Look at Elijah and Chani and tell me he wasn't a
great stud dog. Not to mention NOBODY was allowed to drown around
Rambo either. He was a fully functional "BayWatch" dog. My daughter is
a "water rat" and I trained him to make sure she wouldn't drown at the
lake which we frequented when Heather was a little tyke. He was so
good at it, that he was a pain in the butt about it...literally.
Should anyone in our family swim past his "invisible line" from shore
he would come and GET YOU back to shore. If you were cooperative, he
offered his tail as a handle to hold all the way in to shore but if
you weren't, his favorite handle on you was your shorts.... and he
would pull you all the way back. No kidding. No self respecting
Wolfdog would ever be caught working at that job, let me tell you. Ok,
and for all you out there that are stuck in the dark ages let me stop
you right there. One breeding has ZERO effect on another breeding. For
example. Let's say you are Italian and your first marriage was to a
Ukrainian. Your children from that union are half Ukrainian and half
Italian, right? Ok, good, now let's say your next marriage is to a
Martian, ok? So your kids from that union are half Italian and half
Martian, right? They have zero Ukrainian in them right? OK, just in
case someone wasn't sure about that. One more thing.. and I hope it's
the last one or I may have to make this post into a hardcover version.
:-) Rambo, Starr, Jett, all my DOGS have USAWA registration numbers
as do many other folks' regular dogs. USAWA is an international breed
club, like the ones you have for the Shilohs and we require ALL dogs
used for breeding or even merely to compete in our National shows,
even if just for the Olympics, Agility or Fun classes they MUST be
registered to compete. Thus the USAWA #s, but remember, the PG is for
PURE GERMAN SHEPHERD which must be proven to USAWA satisfaction to get
those #s. Take a look at the pictures, if Tina doesn't have any, I do
and will gladly send some to anyone who has any doubts. Then look at
the pedigrees and you will see.
Now please...
all of you... get back to business, ok? You all are part of the Shiloh
Shepherd, the BEST all around DOG... anywhere. How many times have you
been able to take your dogs in public where someone didn't stop you to
ask questions and admire the fine animal you are privileged to have in
your care? ever?
With love for all the fuzzos,
Jim Hopkin
Heatherly Farm, USA

Norwegian situation - apply for help
 

Hi to you all.

The chairman of the Board of the Norwegian Kennel Club has with sorrow
officially stated that the proposal of a new dog law of Norway includes the
banning of the Saarloos Wolfhound and the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. The
proposal is to be sent from the Ministry of Justice this week. According to
FCI regulations all generations included the F5 generation and those
following are considered dogs, however this will not prevent the Ministry
from having these breeds classified as hybrids.

A personal call to the lawyer preparing this proposal showed his lack of
knowledge regarding common genetic rules, considering even the last
generations of dogs as genetic F5ers.
Now I apply to all of you good helpers everywhere to assist in preventing
this unjustice against our breeds.

I apply to you all everywhere to mail the Minister of Justice, at The
Norwegian Ministry of Justice, informing of our breed, any statistics which
may help related to the theme of "dangerous dogs" and anything which may
seem appropriate related to genetics regarding the difference of our dogs
and wolf-dog hybrids etc.

The mail address to the Ministry is mailto:[email protected] . The
subject line should refer to Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway,
and the mail should be addressed to the Minister of Justice, the Norwegian
Ministry of Justice.

Thank you all in advance.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian situation - apply for help
 

They have done the same thing in the USA, here if you even mention the word
'wolf" you could be in big trouble! One web article (to show you how stupid
some people can be) is worth reading. http://inetdesign.com/coalition/tucker.html (Wolf Dog Coalition - Tucker's Story) be sure to look at his picture!
If he has any wolf blood in him, then your dogs certainly don't, yet they cut
his head off ;(

I hope somebody in Europe has more sense then the people in this country! I
will be anxious to hear how you manage to stop the ban.

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Hi to everybody.

I have translated this text of Arnaldo, I pray you to correct my eventual errors before sending it to the Minister ...

Thanks.

Stefano.

- - -

Dear Minister di Justice,
it's with displeasure that I heared of the proposal of a new dog law that would prohibit the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and the Saarloos Wolfdog. They are DOGS! not WOLFS! not HYBRID! Many Scandinavian dogs possess a DNA almost identical to the wolf nevertheless they are considered dogs and not wolfs. The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog is used from the Civil Protection in Italy. It's optimal for the search on avalanches and the nautical rescue! The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and the Saarloos can be employed to you in social useful activities, would be demonstration of ignorance to announce publicly to ban these breeds that can help the man! I'm sure that a more careful study at international level could demonstrate that it would be a serious error to eliminate these breeds. What would you think Mr. Minister if in Italy or elsewhere it came prohibited, for example, the Norsk Elghund? We pray you therefore to speed up a review of the proposal of law that it would want to ban publicly the Czechoslovakian and the di Saarloos Wolfdogs from Norway.

Arnaldo Balatroni
Brescia
Italy

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Thanks Michelle for your revising in private EMail.

Per Olav, Arnaldo wrote this Email just in italian to
the address you wrote, I send you in private EMail the
revision by Michelle (USA), use it as batter as you
can.

I suggest you not only EMail, I' don't know, an
open-letter to newspapers ...

Ciao.

Stefano.

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Hi Per Olav,
do you asking the Czech and Slovakian Club about help ? If yes, do you
have any reaction ?

Pavel

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Hi Stefano.

I'd appreciate your initiative, but please wait for a minute :-)

We are in a dialogue with the Norwegian Kennel Club regarding this matter.
We do have to wait for the proposal. Then we know if this is a spesific ban
related to our breeds, a general banning of "dangerous" breeds or if the
Ministry is going to propose a ban on these breeds due to their
"wolf-look-alike".

By waiting for the law proposal we are able to do the right considerations
and know how to fight back. What we should like to you do, is informing
every member of every known dog club to respond to the mail which will be
prepared and published on the Dog-o-Mania pages in apropriate time. We have
to do it right, at the right time and we have do do it mutually

Thanks to all of you.

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Be' a Mail from Italy to the Ministry has already
gone.

Stefano.

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Hi Pavel, how are you and do I have missed something by not watching webcam?

I''ve done nothing but asked the Cz club for information. Nothing heard but
I received your mail of the communication and transportation problems of
The Prague.
I understand you are just about to finish the green book.
It will be handed to the Norwegian Kennel Club as "munition". :-)

I don't know which information we are missing, but it will be sorted out
when I meet the lawyer of the Kennel Club.
He was, by the way, impressed of our mail campaign, but he told us not to
start until the proposal was received and read and tactics could be planned.
We do have to know what we are fighting against.

---
Per Olav

Stop the ban of wolfhounds/wolfdogs in Norway.
 

Hi Pavel.
Done some clean up of my mailboxes. :-)

The answer is yes. Both clubs have been asked.
So far no reaction .

Is it Possible?
 

Hello,


I have been readin about the current problems with your dogs and the
banning issues... I understand they are a recognized breed with the FCI. I
know there are very few of these dogs in the US, but perhapse you can
attempt to get your breed recognized with the UKC (http://www.ukcdogs.com/)
also? I know they are a much more reasonable kennel club when it comes to
the dogs. They are in support of the owning and training of more breeds
than the usual kennel club. They will even allow mixed breeds to register
with them for obedience shows, so they too can get their titles. This shows
the UKC is fairly flexable.
The UKC even have a couple sections of their site linking to wolfdogs,
and some information on them - http://www.ukcdogs.com/scan.html I think
that even including these sections on their site shows the tolorance, and
somewhat acceptence of wolfdog ownership.
I was wondering that if the UKC recognized your breed aswell, if that
would help your fight at all? The way I see it, the more kennel clubs you
can get, the better off you are! I don't know anything about getting a
breed recognized, but I do know that much less developed breeds are
recognized (but some have no conformation privilages) by this kennel club,
and perhapse it would be worth trying.
Just my thoughts... Have a good day, and good luck!



~Silver Dragon~

Is it Possible?
 

Hi Silver Dragon.
Thank you for showing interest in our discussions.
Principally this is a matter concerning a Norwegian proposal of banning the
two wolfdog/wolfhound breeds in Norway.
Secondly it is about the Swedish Kennel Club refusal of accepting these
breeds even if recognized by the FCI.
A UCK approval does not make any difference. For time being the breeds are
accepted by the Norwegian Government and the Norwegian Kennel Club.
An audit of the Norwegian law may change this.

Regards

Per Olav

Is it Possible?
 

Per,

I guess I was not getting out what I really wanted to say! I know that
the UKC is fighting against any type of breed specific bans in the US, and
they consider wolfdogs to be apart of that. Here is a link to a letter
written by the president of the UKC showing thier support of wolfdogs -
http://www.ukcdogs.com/wolf/wolfpos.html . I thought that maybe with the
recognition of the breed, perhapse they would fight against the banning
proposals aswell. But maybe you don't even have to be recognized to get
their attention, or maybe they don't even want to adress issues outside the
US. I am unsure, but I was just wondering if it would help at all, or even
be worth looking into. I guess I don't always know what I am talking
about... as you all can tell...

~Silver Dragon~

Is it Possible?
 

It's a great idea, but I think you would need a club in the states to
represent your interests. If you have some good leader type people, you may
want to look into this.

Is it Possible?
 

OK Silver Dragon.
It might be a good idea, well worth thinking of.
I'll check your link. Appreciate your info.
Thank you very much.

Regards

Per Olav

czechoslovak Vlcak
 

I few weeks ago I told my friend about the problems I was reading about on
your list. I just got this in my mail <<Hi Tina I e mailed this to the
minister of Norway.>> So I felt I should at least show you what was sent. I
hope that it will not prove to be a bad thing, since I noticed that you
didn't want anyone to send letters .. yet ;(



Dear Minister,
I am appalled and surprised by Your ignorance of
subjects about which you are making decisions.Your
lack of knowledge is spreading though the world as you
see, but I hope that it is not to late to make the
right decision.I am from former Czechoslovakia and now
living in USA and I am very familiar with
Ceskoslovensky Vlcak. This is a docile and friendly
breed which was eliminated from breeding as a Czech
border patrol dog for the lack(!) of aggression. This
was done by Mr. Ing. Jiri Novotny. If you are
interested in his opinion about aggression
of this DOGS (not hybrids), then I would be more then
happy to contact you with him. By the way wolf and dog
are of the same species thus THEY ARE NOT HYBRIDS!!!.

(...)

I removed his signature, because of the basement problem you have here

czechoslovak Vlcak
 

Hi.

Just nice :-)
I think the Minister (or at least his lawyer preparing the case) need a
reminder.

Love to you and yours

Per Olav

Norwegian situation - I'm a little bit
 

Hi

I'm preparing a summary of the evolution of the CsW for the Norwegian
Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Kennel Klub.
To that I need some helping hands providing me the neccessary information.

From a former czech citizen now living outside the Czech Republic I've
received the following:

"This is a docile and friendly breed which was eliminated from breeding as
a Czech
border patrol dog for the lack(!) of aggression. This was done by Mr. Ing.
Jiri Novotny."

I should like to have any comments on this subject of as well as of any
other which may be of importance.

---
Per Olav

czechoslovak Vlcak
 

Thankyou ;-)

Summary
 

I should have more information from him soon .. he does not read his e-mails
too often ;(
But I know that he knows Ing. Karel Hartl, and has asked him many questions
for me plus has taken a lot of pictures & video tapes when he visits there.
I will ask him to write to you privately if you want him to, what language
would you prefer?

Summary
 

How many can you offer? ;-)

I'll prefer English because it's our main foreign language. Most spoken and
is understood by everyone.
I also master German, French and Spanish, - more or less :-)
But then I'll probably have to translate......

---
Per Olav

Summary
 

puedo traducir el español para usted Per-Olav (babelfish ;-) )

MortenM

Summary
 

OK English it is, I am sure he does not know French or Spanish .. but does
speak fluently in several others ;-)

Summary
 

( I'm sure you can, Morten, but I'll prefer doing it my own way :-) - no
Babelfish ;.)

---
Per Olav

Norwegian situation - I'm a little bit
 

Hi everyone.

It's like a puzzle where some of the pieces are missing.

A friend of MaShiloh says: .I am from former Czechoslovakia and now living
in USA and I am very familiar with Ceskoslovensky Vlcak. This is a docile
and friendly
breed which was eliminated from breeding as a Czech border patrol dog for
the lack(!) of aggression. This was done by Mr. Ing. Jiri Novotny.

Pavel said something like this : I have been there ( a military dog
station) ten years ago, and met no dogs except seniors.

Przemek says: This conditions changed recently when the civilians began to
breed the CzW and the army was not longer interested in continuing the
breeding. However you should always have
in mind that for a few dozens of years this breed was developed by army in
regards to its working abilities.

I really should like to have a brief version of the complete story of the
CsW. When was it eliminated from breeding by the border patrol and why?
When did the civilian start to engage in breeding.
Who is Mr. Novotny, and what's his part of he story? It's really like a
puzzle. I supposed the story of the GSD was a complex one..... :-)

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposition on banning dangerous dogs
 

The Norwegian Ministry of Justice released today its *proposition* to the
new Norwegian dog law.

In the law the Czechsolvakian wolfdog is the only wolfdog breed considerd
dangerous.
The Saarloos wolf hound might however be reconsidered at a later time.
The Norwegian Government lack a English translation of the "Green book" of
the race.

The paragraph regarding wolfdogs will be translated in English and
published on this list.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposition on banning dangerous dogs
 

I am very sorry to hear that this has happened ;(

So far I have only met one here in America, but Sophie was a sweetheart!! I
did send John some pictures of her, maybe he will share them?

Norwegian proposition on banning dangerous dogs
 

Hi Tina,

On www.wolfdog.org Sophie is named Frida Crying Wolf under the wolfdogs
index.

Hope all is well and thanks for the contact with Audrey at CASA.

Regards,
John J Slawek

Norwegian proposition on banning dangerous dogs
 

I hope you can visit one of their events .. I will try coming down soon too
;-)

Norwegian proposition on banning dangerous dogs
 

Hi Per Olav, my friend,
I spoke today with Sona. She get your email and this weekend have a club
meeting, where will speak with a club secretary. They try to send you
much documents as possible.

Pavel

Norwegian proposing ban on CsV
 

Hi to you all.

My dear friend Tonje has translated the Norwegian poposal. On of the
paragraphs is somewhat difficult to understand for simple people like Tonje
and me. An alternate text is place in paranthesis ( - ).
I should like you to study the text. The proposal will be discussed by the
Committee of Justice, Norwegian Parlament. At a later time (tomorrow ?)
I'll send you a list of the members of the Committee of Justice as well as
to the members of Parliament.

I should like to have your oppinion of a uniform reaction to the proposal.
Text follows:


----------
15.5.4 Should crosses between dog and wolf be considered dangerous dogs?

Several instances asked to give recommendations concerning a new dog law,
are in favor of a ban on breeding dog=96wolf crosses and also a prohibition
against keeping or importing such mixed breeds.

Dangerous behavior towards human beings from wolves in their natural
environment is practically nonexistent. As is apparent from section 15.4,
a large number of groups agree that crosses between dog and wolf are
dangerous for people. Internationally, there is an increasing interest in
certain communities in wolf-dog crosses with a high wolf content.

The Department chooses this as a basis and therefore suggests as a starting
point that such animals be defined as dangerous dogs.

There is less agreement on how high such a wolf content should be, for the
animal to be classified as dangerous and therefore banned. The Norwegian
Kennel Club maintain that all dog breeds have roots in animals considered
wolves, and that also many of the dog breeds of today have some association
or other to wolves in the breed=92s early days.

The Department will maintain that the question to be discussed, is how much
inbreeding of wild wolf in dog in recent time should be encompassed by a
ban. In the evaluation of a ban, there should, amongst others, be sought a
definition that is as practical as possible.

Several dog breeds may have wolf in the breeding process prior to the dog
being acknowledged a breed by FCI of which the Norwegian Kennel Club is a
member. In recent time this is the case for the Saarlos Wolfdog and the
CSV. It can not be excluded that the same is the case for eg. The German
Shepherd Dog, Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky and the Belgian Sheepdog
breeds. But especially the German Shepherd Dog is an extensively tested
and wellknown dog breed which, even though with a possible early wolf
element, has a normal function in society and is also utilized as a working
dog to a great extent.

The Department has been in doubt to how extensive a ban on dog types that
are a cross between wolf and dog, should be. The Department has as a
starting-point, that it has no grounds to suggest banning of dog types that
are well established in this country. It could be appropriate to restrict
this to dog breeds with original wolf mixing, which are registered in
Norway by the Norwegian Kennel Club before January 1st 2003.

(Alternative translation: It could be appropriate to accept all dog breeds
acknowledged by the Norwegian Kennel Club before January 1st 2003,
regardless of original wolf content)

But if there has been an inbreeding of pure wolf in individuals of the
breed after the breed has been acknowledged by the FCI which the
registrations in the Norwegian Kennel Club are based on, the ban should
encompass offspring from such individuals. With such a restriction, the
Department assumes that the ban can protect against new dog types that are
a mix between wolf and dog, that the prohibition can practically be
enforced, and that established and widespread dog types are not affected by
the ban.

The abovementioned restriction, means that the dog breeds CSV and Saarloos
Wolfdog are not affected by the ban. However, the Department finds it
necessary to evaluate in particular a ban against these breeds. The
Department bases this on that both are breeds with large requirements to
their owners. Precise information on amount of wolf content, has not come
forth. For Saarloos Wolfdog the last inbreeding of wolf was approx. 40
years ago. CSV has a shorter history, and the first successful inbreeding
with wolf in the breeding program was in 1958. These dogs are few in
Norway today. The Department is not aware that they have caused any damage
or harm.

The Swedish Kennel Club decided in 1997 that Saarloss Wolfdog and CSV
should not be allowed to be registered or participate in any Kennel Club
based activity. In a press notice the 29th of April 1997 the Board of the
Swedish Kennel Club said amongst others:
<<One of the breeds in question comes from former Czechoslavakia, is called
ceskoslovensky vlcak and is considered very shy and watchful. It was given
an interrim approval by the FCI in 1992. The other breed is from the
Netherlands, is called saarloos woolfhond, and has a very reserved and
independent manner. This breed has a final FCI approval. Both breeds are
very similar to the wolf, also exteriorwise. The Swedish kennel Club has
previously taken a definite stand against non-registered wolf hybrids.
Amongst others in "remissvar"(written and posted answers?) and in a policy
decision not to allow wolf breeds to participate in any activities within
the organisation. The same applies to the socalled pitbull terrier. One of
the reasons for the strong dissociation from these breedmixes, is a
considerably increased risk of harm to people and other animals.>>

The Department has come to the conclusion that Saarloos Wolfdog should
follow the general rule for the time being, while the CSV should be
considered a dangerous dog according to the new law. It can not be
excluded that it could become relevant to forbid the Saarloos Wolfdog also,
especially if it appears in communities that can not be assumed to have a
responsible attitude to such dogs.

Regards

---
Per Olav

Norwegian proposition on banning dangerous dogs
 

Hi Pavel.

Thank you so very, very much. I have received her mail.

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

Dear friends

A short while ago I sent the comments of the Norwegian proposal of banning
the CSV.

The Ministry of Justice says in the last paragraph of its proposal:
"The Department has come to the conclusion that Saarloos Wolfdog should
follow the general rule for the time being, while the CSV should be
considered a dangerous dog according to the new law. It can not be
excluded that it could become relevant to forbid the Saarloos Wolfdog also,
especially if it appears in communities that can not be assumed to have a
responsible attitude to such dogs."

The content of the proposal should be valuable to the SW clubs and their
members. I hope everyone will help spreading the bad news. Maybe uniform
and well prepared answers will help to change the future of the our two
breeds in Norway.

---
Per Olav

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

Hi Per,

I wanted that you have to notice, that in 1962 or 1963 there was also a wolf
inbreeded in the Saarloos Wolfdog for the last time. So when it have
something to do with years from breeding with a wolf, than it is about the
same time as the CSV.

Greetings,

Letty

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

Hi Letty and thanks :)

It looks like The Ministry assumes that the percentage of "wolfblood" of
the SW and CSV is equal by the time of FCI approval. If the SW is allowed
because the breed is somewhat older than the CSV , then the Ministry is
assuming that the precentage of "wolfblood" if the SW is reduced due
to the fact that the SW is recognized as a pure breed some years previous
to the CSV.
I know nothing of genetics - therefore my question is : is the portion of
"wolfblood" is reduced by each generation?

I'm offered half a page in the Kennel Club Magazine "Dog sport" for
presenting the breed and commenting the proposal. This question may be of
certain interrest.

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

that sounds wonderful, I would love to see the article after it is printed
;-)

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

At 20:27 01.04.2003 -0500, you wrote:

Sure, and translated as well :)


---
Per Olav

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

No, and this is the "problem". It will stay between 25% and 30%.....

Greetings,
Margo

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

yes, maybe we can print a story about you in one of our Newsletters ;-)

Norwegian situation (once more)
 

Hello everyone,

It has been a long time since i have responded to the
news of the club.
It is a great worry to hear this kind of development
toward wolfdogs in Norway.
One thing caught my attention especialy and that was
that the goverment of Norway mentioned "certain
communities" who would not have the right attitude
towards this dog.
The wolfdog speaks to the imagination of people.
Most people do have respect for this dog and are a bit
affraid. This will surely attrack the wrong kind of
people.People who want this reaction from other people
and people who are just seeing the outside of this dog
and don't respect this dog in a good way. And that
is when this dog can get a bad name.It takes a good
kind of people who can "manage" this dog without
provoking the worst in the dog.
I think that the Csw club should take an example on
how the Saarlooswolfdogclub takes care of "their"
dogs.
It will have its disatvantage sure9 i heard once it
had to do with breeding or such), but if you compare
it to this development in Norway it seems to mee it is
a far better alternative.
Now it is in Norway but it can affect other countries
as well.
I think especially in a small country as
ours(Holland),it may take a wrong turn for this kind
of dogs.And i know that other breeds like the
retriever are responsible for bitewounds and not the
Csw or the Saarloos...but people still have the little
red ridinghood syndrom!
Many times i encounter people who find it a beautiful
breed and they only want one because it is such a
pretty dog. And you all know what happens then.
And so i do not agree to promote this dog without a
more restricted way to get a wolfdog. So i say again,
if we want to remain this breed in a good way without
risk of turning things bad then the club should take
its responsibility in this matter.I think this the
only way too prevent that this dog is sold to the
wrong people, and will be sold from the wrong breeder.
And last but not least, i would weep when this dog is
going to meet the same future as some breeds who grew
popular. I hope it is not too late.
I would like to know waht your opinions are over this
matter so please respond.

A howl from me,
marja.

Urgent!! Protest against the Norwegian ban of theCzechoslova
 

Dear friends.

As the Norwegian proposal banning the CSV is likely to be approved (24th of
April), it would be extremely helpful if members of this list would be so
kind as to send a protest by E-mail to the relevant parties.
Below is a suggested text for such a protest, in addition to the relevant
mail-adresses. Since the Saarloos is "spared", at least for the time being,
it is important not to involve Saarloos as well so care has been
taken to keep the Saarloos out of the discussion (i.e. not use arguments of
the type "if Saarloos is OK, the CSV should be OK", it could easily make
them say "OK if it is unfair, we will ban both breeds"). Also if
everyone sends the same protest and the same mail-subject title, this will
be more noticed than spurious individual mails.You will see below that it
would be preferable that copy of each mail also is sent to the Norwegian
media. The media will probably not react (it being Easter and the Norwegian
proposal is to them much less interesting than the war in Iraq), but such
copy to the media will hassle the politicians a bit and is therefore a good
thing!

Also if you have any means or good ideas to crosspost this to any other
lists, people, dog communities - anyone - please do!


----------

Suggested subject-title:
Norwegian proposal to ban the Slovakian National Dog

Dear Committee member,
Dear Members of Parliament,

As a member of the international community, I would like to express my
surprise and, to be blunt, my contempt of the Norwegian proposal to ban the
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.
Apparently Your Justice Department suspects the Czechoslovakian wolfdog to
be so "wolflike", due to the inbreeding of wolf in the breed's early
history, that it must be deemed a dangerous dog. This is plain nonsense and
shows a shocking ignorance. The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog is no more wolf or
more dangerous than eg. The Belgian Shepherd Dogs, Malamutes or even German
Shepherd Dogs. The "wolfiness" is in the appearance and any wolf traits in
behaviour are modified, as they are in any other domestic dog breed. It is
known as a family and working dog, in addition to being the Slovakian
National Dog and a very far cry from pure wolves or hybrids. As a part of
their image they are supposed to look "wolfy".

I fervently hope You will reconsider the ban of Czechoslovakian wolfdogs.

Yours Sincerely
(Your name and nationality)

Urgent!! Protest against the Norwegian ban of the Czechoslov
 

OK, we have some good ideas. More info soon .... :)

Greetings,
Margo

Urgent!! Protest against the Norwegian ban of theCzechoslova
 

Love you my dear :)

For those of you who are unfamiliar in creating simple mass mails:
1. Open your mail program
2. Create a new mail address
3. Copy and paste the addresses below
4. Save your new address entry as e.g. Norway
5. Create a new mail
6. Copy the subject line and the message text from this mail into your new
mail.
7. Add the addresses from your newly created mail address (maybe you have
to separate the addresses by adding a comma or a semi colon between each of
the addresses in you to-line. Depends on your mail programme and voila -
there it goes!!!

Urgent!! Protest against the Norwegian ban of the Czechoslov
 

I just posted the entire letter on all of my dog lists ;-)