way are some kennels added to WD but not some others ???
 

great for all breeders but the discrimination continues for uk breeders as we are not on here, now three breeders and over 60 pure bred CWS in uk with three litters on the way and still not recognised by wolfdog.org admin, by 2011 we will have over 100 cws in uk, the breed is now also in northern ireland and will be in southern ireland this year, southern ireland accept FCI.
three litters born in uk over last two years have not been sent to this data base as we were removed from breeders listing years ago, we have remined the admin that all our wolfdogs originaly came from European breeders, i was on breeders listings for years but was removed with the feebile excuse that the cws are not recognised in the uk.

:ehmmm... but there is an UK breeder listed.

Sorry for being OT :|8)

that appeared quickly, but i have breed three litter and have two litters due, andre has breed two litters, so there are 3 breeders in uk.

way are some kennels added to WD but not some others ???
 

I just wounder way for example Lee is now added as a breeder but not other breeders in the UK ???

And what is the demands to be added ???

Very best regards / Mikael

No, it is just another bug in the database. The kennel will disappear soon...

Only one question - do the puppies get valid FCI recognized pedigrees?

OK, thanks for your answer :)

Can you tell me the demands or can I read them somewhere ???

Very best regards / Mikael

low life
 

ah, so you are the person responsable for removing the uk kennels, i see you hide yourself well behind your admin title, no name? no addresss? just Admin,,, so what exactly do you mean the kennel will disappear soon, so uk breeders according to you are just a bug in the data base? you are one arrogant and ignorant person,wether you like it or not there are breeders in uk and we have over 60 pure bred CWS now with 3 more litters for 2010, come out from behind your ADMIN MASK and tell us all your name so at least we know who is responsable for the discrimination against us, maybe you can tell us on line why we where removed ? our cws all originated from European breeders and my bitchs have be been to Europe to be mated over the years so you also insult lots of other people from Europe who have helped us increase our gene pool by allowing us to use there stud dogs and sell us dogs to import, these people are also part of the uk breeding programe and we are very greatful for there help, you will add our pups and new owners to your data base but hide them from everyone who may visit looking for breeders in uk, if you are going to continue to discriminate against the breeders from the uk,then at least have the decency to remove all of our dogs from this data base as well, your big enough in the mouth to print insulting remarks and to tell everyone on line that Lees kennel will soon disapear but havent got enough front to tell us your name, the cws will continue to grow in the uk, we will continue to promote the breed we love, and if need be we will have our own data base, but dont come on here and insult us and hide our dogs and our breedings and our kennels and expect us to be nice in any way, so you go hide behind your Admin status and crawl back under your rock. paul winder uk

no we dont have FCI recognised pedigrees as you very well know, and if this is your feebile excuse for removing the uk breeders then it sucks, we took 6 years hard graft getting these dogs removed from the dangerous wild animal register in uk, it wasnt a walk in the park for us, WE GOT THE GOVERNMENT BODY DEFRA TO CHANGE A LAW..... have you any idea how hard that was,,all our breeding stock was imported from Europe, all our dogs are listed on this site, pups we have bred are listed on this site, why can you not put the uk breeders back and also state that at present the dogs bred in uk are not recognised by the uk kennel club but these breeders are yet again working hard to get this resolved. and we have made great progress in last few months we have letters from kennel club to prove this.

solowolf : vous allez ajouter nos chiots et les nouveaux propriétaires à votre base de données, mais de les cacher de tous ceux qui visite mai à la recherche d'éleveurs au Royaume-Uni,

N'imaginez pas une seconde que cette façon de faire, (trés mesquine, je vous l'accorde), ne frappe QUE les éleveurs anglais !!!
Même en France, ce procédé est récurrent !!!

On vient chercher des informations sur les Sites des éleveurs, (notamment les naissances), on prend des photos (sans demander l'autorisation) et on alimente ainsi la base de données, tout en "éjectant" l'éleveur de WD ou en la trainant dans la boue....

Solowolf : alors au moins avoir la décence de retirer tous nos chiens à partir de cette base de données

Là aussi vous rêvez !!! il est plus intéressant de cracher sur les gens, tout en se servant d'eux pour étoffer une base de données !!!

solowolf : vous allez cacher derrière son statut d'administration et ramper sous votre roche.

Eh Oui ! en plus d'être mesquin on est pas trés courageux !!!
Le nombre de fois où j'ai demandé publiquement QUI était la personne qui se servait comme un libre-service sur MES sites ?! Je ne les compte même plus !
Eh bien ....c'est jamais personne !!!

Récemment on vient de me rajouter 3 chiens qui ne m'appartiennent même pas.... Mais là aussi, c'est PERSONNE !

Ah Oui ! j'ai compris !....C'est sans doute un Bugg informatique :cussing ....

Is this a bug too http://www.wolfdog.org/fra/dbase/d11649.html ? Because I remember here a discussion about origin of Vorss and here it shows the father of Vross is Tha'A-Nook a Saarloos.

Non Elf !!!!
Ce que montre WD n'est pas forcément le strict reflet de la réalité !!!!
Si vous voulez tout savoir, il y a + de 95 erreurs de resencées dans la base de données de WD concernant ma production !!!!

Et Vorss n'a strictement rien à voir avec le fait que l'élevage MLS a été enlevé de la base de données ....

Ininialement le problème de mon élevage, venait d'une FAUSSE rumeur comme quoi aucun de mes chiens n'étaient radiographiés et que je faisais de la reproduction sans vérifier les hanches !!!!

Par ailleurs, je vous invite à réfléchir sur la logique de cette histoire :


I - je vous fais remarquer que si la cause de mon éviction sur la base de données de WD est bel et bien l'origine de Vorss, ça n'explique pas le moins du monde et ne cautionne en rien, le fait que les Administrateurs ou Modérateurs de WD continuent depuis des mois, de venir sur mes Sites pour prendre des photos (sans autorisation) ou des informations, (qui ne les concernent pas) .....


II - Justement étant une trés mauvaise éleveuse française, (Sic !) les Administrateurs ou Modérateurs de WD devraient plutot se désintéresser totalement des mouvements de mon cheptel et concentrer leur attention, sur ceux qui paraissent mériter leur royale attention !!!!

Alors n'impliquez pas le motif de Vorss dans cette histoire, car il n'a rien à y faire !!!

Can maybe someone translate in English?

Ina

[quote=michaelundinaeichhorn;285868]Can maybe someone translate in English?

Ina[/quote]

Part 1:
Solowolf: you'll add our puppies and new owners in your database, but to hide from all who visit in May to search for breeders in the United Kingdom,

Do not imagine for one second that this approach (very petty, I grant you), affects only the English breeders! Even in France, this process is recurring!

They just look for information on breeders' sites, (including births), take pictures (without asking permission) and is fed into the database, while "ejecting" the breeder or leaving the WD trailing in the mud ....

Solowolf: then at least have the decency to withdraw all our dogs from this database

Again you are dreaming! It is interesting to spit on people while using them to develop a database!

Solowolf: you will hide behind his status of directors and crawl under your rock.
Oh Yes! Besides being petty it is not very brave!
The number of times I have publicly asked who was the person who used “free service” from my sites?! I do not even count them! Well.... it's never anyone!

Recently we have just added my 3 dogs that do not even belong to me....But then again, it PERSON!

Oh Yes! I understand!....It's probably a computer bug



Part 2:
No Elf!!
This shows that WD is not necessarily a strict reflection of reality!
If you want to know everything there are 95 + published errors in the database of WD of my breeding!

And Vorss has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that MLS litters/dogs have been removed from the database ....

Initially, the problem for my kennel, was just a false rumor that none of my dogs were x-rayed and I was doing reproduction without checking the hips!

I also invite you to reflect on the logic of this story:

I - I point out that if the cause of my eviction on the basis of data in WD is indeed the origin of Vorss, it does not explain at all and does not endorse in any way, that the Directors or Moderators of WD continue for months to come on my sites to take pictures (without permission) or information (which does not concern them) .....


II - Just being a very bad breeder French (Sic!), the Administrators or Moderators of WD should rather ignore completely the movements of my kennel and focus their attention on those who seem to deserve their royal attention!!

So Vorss is not the reason for this story because he has nothing to do with it!

I wonder how much a script like this would cost (I have domains and hosting so that isn't an issue)?

I don't think the pedigree database would be as inclusive as we'd want it to be.

I still did not understand if Vorss is a Saarloos cross from Tha'A-Nook or not ?


Well, if you care I guess you can fix this rumor by sending scans to WD, then people would see you did HD examinations. There are more than 2000 verified HD results in the DB so this process, even if not perfect, is some kind of working.


There are errors in the database it's true, by reading in your words it seems you don't want to be in the DB anymore, let's be pragmatic it's something you know it won't happend, so: if you care much about it, the only way would be to send PM to Admin with errors listing and be patient for changes.

elf : Eh bien, si vous vous souciez Je suppose que vous pouvez corriger cette rumeur en envoyant des scans à WD, alors les gens verraient que vous n'avez examens HD. Il ya plus de 2000 résultats vérifiés HD dans le PB, si ce processus, même s'il n'est pas parfait, est une sorte de travail.


Vous parlez sans savoir !!! j'ai fais bien mieux que d'envoyer des scans !

En 2009, en France, lors de la Nationale d'Elevage de ChaLette sur Loing, à laquelle Margo a participé, j'ai pris la peine de lui apporter les ORIGINAUX de toutes mes lectures officielles de dysplasie, afin qu'elle en prenne connaissance visuellement d'elle-même !!!!.
Il y avait pas loin de 20 pages, qu'elle a pris le temps de feuilleter (avec son amie, la juge lithuanienne qui était également à ses côtés) ....

Elle a donc bien vu les résultats officiels et originaux des radios de tout mon cheptel et même parfois des chiens de mes clients, dont je me suis occupée moi-même pour les faire radiographier !!!

Ca n'a strictement rien changé à la situation et la base de données n'a pas été mise à jour pour autant vis à vis de mes propres chiens
(au minimum) !!!!

Par contre, il est étonnant de constater que lorsque je place ou je vends un chien (qui apparait donc, au nom d'une autre personne) le résultat de dysplasie apparait "soudain" sur WD .... (alors que la cotation de dysplasie n'apparait pas, quand ce même chien est encore à mon nom et qu'il est pourtant bel et bien radiographié par mes soins) .....

On pourrait penser à un malheureux hasard, pour un cas isolé....
Mais quand c'est systématique, on peut s'interroger .....

Or, je peux citer au minimum 5 chiens qui ont eu leur cotation de dysplasie soudainement affichée sur WD, du moment qu'ils n'étaient plus à mon nom, (alors que cette cotation n'apparaissait pas, quand ils étaient encore à mon nom)


elf : Il ya des erreurs dans la base, c'est vrai, par la lecture dans vos paroles, il semble que vous ne voulez pas être dans la BD

Vous ne m'avez pas compris !
Je me fiches royalement d'être dans la liste "officielle et bien-pensante" des "SOIT DISANT" bons éleveurs français !
Ce n'est pas celà mon problème !

Mais ce que JE NE VEUX PAS ! CE QUE JE TROUVE INTOLERABLE ! c'est qu'on se serve de mes Sites (sans mon autorisation) pour alimenter cette fichue base de données !!!

C'est également que les personnes qui procèdent ainsi, n'ont même pas le courage de le reconnaitre ouvertement et de sortir de l'ombre et de s'expliquer avec moi

Vous comprenez la nuance ? Ou vous faites exprès de répondre à côté du sujet à chaque fois ?

Not to sound rude but Lorry_MLS, are you intending to post here?
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8

This is the English subforum for people who speak English. You're responding to posts written in English so it's clear you do understand it (at least can read it).

IMO it's rude to post in a language not intended for the forum expecting the community to understand you (or just not caring if they don't understand you). This is the English subforum, please post in English. If you need to post in French, please post in the French subforum.

Translation:

Elf: Well, if you care I guess you can fix this rumor by sending scans to WD, then people would see you did HD examinations. There are more than 2000 verified HD results in the DB so this process, even if not perfect, is some kind of working.


You speak without knowing! I do much better than sending the scans!

In 2009, in France at the National Specialty of Chalette Sur Loing, when Margo was involved, I took the trouble to bring the originals of all my official readings of dysplasia, to see its information visually herself !!!!.
There were close to 20 pages, it took time to leaf through (with her friend, the Lithuanian judge who was also at her side) ....

She then saw the official results and original radios of all my breeding dogs and sometimes even dogs of my clients, which I took myself for an X-ray!

It has done absolutely nothing to change the situation and the database was not updated so far with respect to my own dogs (more)!!

By contrast, it is surprising that when I place or I sell a dog (which therefore appears, on behalf of another person) the result of dysplasia "suddenly" appears on WD .... (although the listing of dysplasia does not appear, when this same dog is still in my name and yet it is actually x-rayed by me) .....

One might think it an unfortunate coincidence for an isolated case ....
But when it is systematic, one might question .....

But I can cite at least 5 dogs that had their rating of dysplasia suddenly displayed on WD, the time they were out of my name (although it did not appear when they were still in my name)


elf: There are errors in the database it's true, by reading in your words it seems you don't want to be in the DB anymore

You misunderstand me!
I fiches royalement (couldn’t figure this part out…GalomyOak) to be in the list "formal and well-meaning" of "so-called" good breeders French!
That is not my problem!

But what I DO NOT WANT (!) - what I find intolerable - is that they would use my websites (without my permission) to feed this damn database!

It is also that the people who do so, do not even have the courage to openly recognize this (themself?) and come out of the shadows and explain to me!

Do you understand the difference? Or do you purposely answer next to the subject every time?

Why don't you talk directly to Admin or Margo, or better take legal actions ? Would sound less demagogic.


You know, don't know, or don't want to answer ?


Taking up the ball to talk a bit about good breeding policy, Thalia x Sibir ( http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/12242 ):

Wright 5 generations = 33.64%
AVK 5 generations = 51.61% ... I rarely see such a low AVK on 5G, this means that half of the possible ancestors are missing.

General question to breeders: why such number are needed NOWADAYS (because it's not the only litter like that) ? "Fixing great traits on great lines" would deserve a solid explanation. There are direct consequences in health whatever one think to know well their lines (common argue). Damn, we are in 2010, we have many other choices.

In addition, either Thalia or Sibir are far to be rare lines ; checking the mean kindship coef of them and compare it to all other living CSV shows that they are behind 60-70% of living CSV.

Strange dog breeding world...

Hi Lorry,
I asked Margo about your case and she said that she saw all the results but when she asked you to make copies of the documents to be stored in WD database you refused to provide them. Admin cannot add the data without tangible detailed proofs that the dogs were X-rayed + dates, names of clinics, vets etc. etc.

If you still want the results to be placed in WD why don't you send the result copies to the Admin? If you don't trust the Admin, send them to me and I'll make my best to forward them to Margo, just like I send the data of my own dog, which appear in the database at the nearest update.

I'd really want to help you since I imagine you must be really frustrated and exhausted by this situation if you write so long and angry posts. Write me a PM if you're interested, and I'll send you my address. 8)

Yes, I saw the results. But I also told that you must scan all the results and send them to the Admin.
It is the rule since years and ONLY the verified x-ray results are added to the database. And this rule apply to all Wolfdog.org zsers - even I must scan the results of my own dogs and send them to Admin. He knows I do not cheat but without the copies he will not even update the results of my the dogs owned by me. There is no exception for anyone... (and I think it is fair and clear rule)

Rona : J'ai demandé à Margo sur votre cas et elle a dit qu'elle voyait tous les résultats, mais quand elle vous a demandé de faire des copies des documents qui doivent être stockées dans une base de DEO, vous avez refusé de les fournir.

J'apprécie que Margo reconnaisse enfin (même si c'est par votre biais) qu'elle a bien eu connaissance visuelle des résultats de dysplasies de mes chiens !!!
C'est déjà une bonne chose et le mérite de ne pas me faire passer pour une menteuse !

C'est exact, j'ai en effet refusé de lui laisser les exemplaires que j'avais apporté à la Nationale, car c'étaient justement des originaux et non de simples copies....il était hors de question que je lui laisse mes originaux !!!

Mon But 1er, était de lui prouver qu'il ne faut pas toujours écouter, "Pierre", "Paul", "Jacques" et que ce n'est pas parceque je n'étale pas mes résultats dysplasiques sur mes Sites, que mes chiens ne sont pas forcément radiographiés ....

Comprenez vous ?



Rona : J'imagine que vous devez être vraiment frustré et épuisé par cette situation, si vous écrivez si longtemps et en colère postes.

En effet, je suis en colère.....je trouve malsain, cette façon continuelle de toujours salir ou discrétiter la réputation d'un éleveur tout en se servant de ses Sites pour obtenir des informations (naissances, photos, ect ....) alors que je choisis moi-même, de ne pas les communiquer sur WD

Autre exemple : Ca fait plus de 2 ans que je ne bénéficie pas volontairement de la publicité gratuite des informations de saillies/naissances sur WD....
Or ça n'empêche pas qu'un ADMIN vienne espionner sur mes Sites pour voir les mariages que je fais et les retranscrire sur WD !!!

Pourquoi ???? puisque ce sont soit disant des mariages de merde ???

Dans ces cas là, qu'on me fiche la paix !!!!
Et qu'on enlève carrément tout ce qui concerne mes chiens et mon élevage de cette base de donnée privée !!! (je l'ai demandé à plusieurs reprises)

Rona : Ecris-moi un MP si vous êtes intéressé, et je vais vous envoyer mon adresse.

C'est gentil merci ....

Not really :cry: I'm afraid my French is not good enough ;) I didn't catch if you still want to have the results added to the database or not?


My pleasure. I hope you'll be ale to solve this problem (with or without my help) without further problems. :)

Margo : Oui, j'ai vu les résultats.

Je vous remercie de le reconnaitre publiquement, car cette rumeur de faire reproduire mes chiens sans les faire radiographier est toujours d'actualité, largement répandue en France et à l'étranger ....

Margo : Mais j'ai aussi dit qu'il faut analyser tous les résultats et les envoyer à l'Admin.

Je ne dis pas le contraire !!!!
Seulement je vous ferai remarquer que vous avez eu les originaux sous les yeux et que contrairement à des copies simplement scannées, (qui peuvent être falsifiées) les originaux ont forcément plus de valeur en terme "d'analyse de vérification" (en tout cas c'est mon avis)

Margo : Il n'ya pas d'exception pour personne ...

Je n'ai jamais demandé à avoir un passe-droit ....

Comme je l'explique sur mon message précédent, j'ai pris la peine de vous montrer les résultats à VOUS directement, parceque je sais que vous avez tendance croire simplement ce que vous entendiez, et que je voulais que, pour une fois, vous fassiez votre jugement avec vos yeux et non pas avec vos oreilles !!!

Par contre, ce que j'ai toujours demandé et ce que je continue de VOULOIR c'est simplement qu'on arrête de venir chercher des infos sur mes Sites, alors même qu'on m'a éjecté comme une merde de la liste de WD !!!!.....

Je pense humainement parlant, que celà peut également être une "règle juste et une règle claire" comme vous l'écrivez si bien ....

PS : Je pense aussi que la personne qui agit ainsi (à plusieurs reprises) pourrait le dire de façon ouverte et franche, plutot que de se planquer derrière le mot ADMIN ! ça aussi ça pourrait être une "règle juste et une règle claire"

So Then ADMIN can show my dog BONOs HD results??
If I don´t have that paper yet...why ADMIN have copy?

Sorry, this play doesn´t work anymore.
Admin doesen´t give answers or fixing wrong data???

:roll: There is a French Forum and there is the possibility at least for solowolf to write in both languages AND to write his statements also in English.
I don´t mind if someone needs to write here in his own language if it is really neccessary and asks for translation but to have a longer conversation here in another language without need is simply unpolite.

Ina

I already consider it quite unpolite, as Lorry have a nice english as he already had show us in other topics, so there is no need for him to write in French here.
I ever have the scary tough about the possibility of Daiva one day give up to write in English and act like Lorry, but writting in Lithuan... :shock:
Maybe some genius appear here writting Hebraic... Chinese... and well, its our problem because he dont write english good enough to show perfectly what he is trying to say :twisted: :p
I will clean the things (and when I have more free time I will translate the last message of Lorry) and I hope there will be no more French or other language replies ...

I will not talk about the litters quoted so well by Elf as its not the topic, but the true is that they are already very explanatory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :?

Lorry, you complain since much year of these errors ..... I asked you by email to explain yourself about Vorss :roll: :? , about the various errors ..... just for make the corrections , if they were indeed real….

never an answer, Then stop to complain unceasingly, that becomes frankly ridiculous ..... you do not want to play the game with the site wolfdog, is your choice :roll:

see the good side of the things, at least, you have visits on your site :lol:

I still wonder about the exakt demands to be added as a breeder ???
I only wonder how or way some is added and some don´t, not just UK breeders... And I think it would be more easy if the demand was official :roll:

Do not get me wrong, I know way I´m not added yet, I just want to know all demands ;)

Best regards / Mikael

Again ADMIN refuses to answer my question you are one god dam ignorant person how you ever got job as Admin beats me, but i know this you should take up fishing for you are absolutely no use to anyone on this site, you just think you can treat people like they dont exsist and only answer when you see fit, this only tells us what we know you are arrogent and ignorant to a T, your little bit of power has went to your head, so you can now give me a strike for this , [censured]