Communism - what you think about it?
 

Originally posted by Mikael :
>>> http://www.ruffgsd.com/

Hey Mikael !
very interesting homepage you have found ! Nice to see - and I like this kind of Gsd too....:ylsuper
Originally posted by Vaiva:
"Everything is seen so well from USA, isn't it? :wink:
Well, there is one thing that is not money - it is decency :lol: A non "cash strapped country" like UK still breeds liver or blue colored GSD, while in these "poor" countries people have clubs that forbid breeding GSD with no IPO training :lol: No matter about the money."

Yeah Vaiva - that`s also my opinion ! Thanks God not everything depends ONLY on money...

And it´s also not very polite to tell whole Czechia as a "cash strapped country" - :nono

How could one call the USA if you think a little critical about that case ?

May be the " headquarter of non- social predator capitalism ?? ":evil_lol

Best regards, Uli alias Silvester

For the record....as an American8)

When I went to Poland and the Czech Rep. back in 2009, I 100% fell in love. With the people, the land, history, THE DOGS, food...everything. It was beautiful...exquisite. I had read (and heard warnings from other Europeans) about the condition of Polish roads...and found them to be in much better condition than the roads where I live (to be sure, I am waiting on my neighbor with a tractor to help fix the huge holes in my dirt road right now:oops:). I've traveled to Romania several times throughout the years too (my sister was adopted from there in 1991, and I also did work with NGO) - I found things to be the same there - awesome! Quite honestly, if I thought I had the tiniest chance of mastering the language to get a job, I think I would pack my bags and move to central Europe. Or at least visit a lot more. But I have many mouths to feed and no increase in my salary in 4 years. I can't afford it. I am cash strapped. My state and town are too cash strapped to pay me or fix my roads...at least I still have a job (teaching). And I promise to breed no mixes. :lol:

Whatever the case with DDR dogs, if they mixed or not, I honestly have no ideas or proof about it, it's really like comparing apples and oranges. Whatever happened back then, government breeding is done with working purpose, with a lot of sacrifice of dogs back in the early days, and with a high selection. You see many Mal/Dutch and Mal/Shepherd (and even lately have seen some Rottweiler/Mal crosses!) being trained here with the police depts. and military - I have a higher opinion for this kind of mixed breeding than "designer dog" breeding - and I'd hardly say it's because our military is cash strapped.:roll: They probably pay $20000+ for these dogs. Not the same as people who breed mixes to sell more puppies and make money, or to try to give an "edge" for their dogs in the show ring. It's a totally different spectrum in many ways.

It's very sweet what you write Marcy, thanks. :) Your visit to us, just like Paula's and Jing's, was like of a close relative 8)

Well, California is officially bankrupt ..:twisted:

So, we are cash strapped too. The roads in Poland were much nicer, with better drivers, too. :grins And the cities, at least Krakow, aren't a commercial wasteland like Los Angeles is. It actually has art, city planning, and history.. :lol:.. oh, and it's beautiful.

Let me correct you ;) Krakow wasn't destroyed during WWII - the buildings are old and original. They 'decayed' during the communism era, but now they have been refurbished, at least most of them. There are still some places - relicts of the old epoch, but gradually, also with the help of EU funds, they're regaining their original shapes, colours and beauty.

Collegium Maius is the same building where Copernicus studied, and when you visit St Mary's Church you see figures carved by Veit Stoss himself.

Hi Rona !

I did not tell that Krakow was destroyed in WWII. I know it wasn´t.

I only said that it was reconstructed - you told refurbished - like Warszawa in a really exemplarily way. And that´s true.

Let´s agree all together that these both towns are among the most beautiful in whole europe, ok? :lol:

Best greetings to Poland !

Silvester

Let's agree there are lots of beautiful cities all round Europe + in the UK, naturally ;):lol:

We should ask to change the name of the topic :lol: Krakow is amazingly beautiful, but my bigest love is anyway Prague :oops: (except of Vilnius, of course :p)

occupier is wondering - how can you know this? from tv? :lol:

Exactly! The funny trick of communist leaders was, that people in the Soviet Union belived they were sponsoring PL, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, DDR, etc. and people in those countries were sure they were sponsoring the Soviet Union. :twisted: In fact we were all sponsoing the "leading class" and the unhealthy economic system, non-voluntarily of course. :p

Besides, it's absolutely irrelevant to talk about categories of "rich" and "poor" in states where there was no real money. Somebody could be quite well-off in his own country, though the currency was irreversible.

Thus speaking of savings and economizing in case of communist instituons, especially military ones is a pure nonsense. Should they have any financial problems, more money would have been printed for them :p

i'm sure we all in all countries still do it :lol:

Sure! :lol:
But at least the money is real now and I can travel free without having to ask my Government for permission every time I leave the country, even for a day or two 8) I remember very well how irritating and troublesome that was.:(

but we still need visas (instead of the mentioned permissions) :lol:

Before there were permissions AND visas to most countries. Now, within the Schengen zone - none! 8) I know young people take this right for granted, but for somebody of my generation - it's kind of a miracle. 8):lol:

Originally posted by Rona:
"I know young people take this right for garanted, but for somebody of my generation - it's kind of a miracle. 8):lol: "

Yes Rona that´s very true what you tell - things have become much, much better in the last two decades. ( Just inside Schengen-zone, as already told.)
But still I need a visum if I want to travel for example to Russia - or to USA also...

but we still need visas, you don't :evil:
i know only that our family never had such problems with travels and permisions. each epoch and each power has its own positive and negative aspects. an absolute evil (like absolute good of course) exists only in myths. that's why i wonder every time when i see too categorical opinions. they look too stulid 8) i can say i lived in romania and spoke with many people from there. and many of them even miss past times (i don't mean new generations which saw soviet times only on tv). also my grandmother was estonian, but i never heard any bad thing about ussr from her, there were let's say normal discussions - we discuss the same problems now, nothing exceptional... i don't protect soviets etc., i just want to say that nobody knows what your children or grandchildren will tell about nowdays. maybe they will use all the same words like occupation, poverty and inequality ;)

and we need visas for eu :lol: normal

Yes, I know and this should be changed asap.:|
You don't have to tell me this :) I know there were lots of positive aspects of living in those times - really free education, much less polluted envirnoment, less competitive and 'commercial' relations among people, etc. I was a student in the 70-ties and had fantatstic time hiking in the mountains almost for free; sight-seeing in Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, meeting many warm and hospitable people everywhere we went.

But on the other hand, as a child I was unable to visit my British grandma with both of my parents - one of them had to stay in the country to guarantee that the other will bring me back :p. Every citizen was suspected of potential law-breaking, we had to lie at school in history lessons, etc. etc. I don't miss that at all. :p

i didn't tell it personally for you, but for the people who curse "occupants" etc. i see same effects from eu and many people damn it too, and what? :rock_3

True :) I call it "MacGyver education model" :lol:

It's really interesting, the conversation between Rona and Morian. I always try to see things for how they really are (and were), but in the US, we are also heavily influenced by our media - and our education (which sadly isn't often too different from the media:roll:). I guess I am from the "newer" generation, but I know in my parent's and grandparents generation, and maybe even the generation just before mine, there was the "anti-communist rhetoric" - and still the notion of "cash-strapped" countries persists, even though we know most of what we were told back then was all foolish propoganda... I also know from traveling, and living overseas and talking that "romantic" visions of the US exist too in other countries (I have neither hardcore gangster criminals nor dude ranches anywhere close to where I live. Nor are there huge Hollywood mansions - there are people living nearby who have neither electricity or running water;)). I guess the beauty of the internet is now we have access beyond the T.V, news, and textbooks - to real people. I cherish the sharing and stories that come from an international community! And I wish I hadn't needed an entry visa (which I didn't have:() to enter Russia when I was right at the border a couple of years ago! :p

Marcy - I'm not much older than you and we were taught like that in school, too. Even after the Berlin Wall fell it was like that (of course, most of our books weren't 100% current anyway).

You're absolutely right. In the 'old times' some (not all, naturally) people in my country honestly belived that in the UK, USA, France and other so-called developed countries money lied in the streets and waited to be picked up. :lol: Unfortunately MacGyver, Dynasty, and similar productions were very persuasive. :rock_3

Well, people have always belived, what they wanted to belive and we can see it even on this forum :p:lol:

:lol: there are both gangsters and Hollywood mansions here, and I always have to wonder why anyone would choose to come here voluntarily :lol: I didn't..but, you're right, there are popular assumptions of the US as well.. I always ask my foreign friends after they stayed for some time, whether reality matched their preconceptions. Surprisingly, some have said yes..:lol:

Originally posted by Rona:
"Well, people have always belived, what they wanted to belive and we can see it even on this forum":p:lol:

Wise words - and very true !:fingers1

Thank you :)

Morian, how many members of your family were killed, taken to Siberia or had to run away from soviets? :lol:

What was this topic about anyway?

vaiva, another question - have you lived in those times you hate so much? :D i don't want to continue this discussion here, just afraid to offend someone ;)

Not much. I was born in 1983. My parents did. Grandparents did. Or do you think they all just lie about "these times"? They just created some horror stories themselves? Yes, this discussion would be more suitable in private, because it is not about wolfdogs.

Morion, don't you feel that political environment and your nice childhood memories do not allow you to see some things in real light? Please, inform me next time you come to Lithuania, I will be glad to show you the other side ;)

vaiva, i'm very sorry, but for me it's not too difficult to explain your position. but i really don't want to offend you. and believe me, i know about soviets not from "nice childhood memories" unlike you. i don't want to discuss it nor here, heither in private or in lithuania 8) i wrote here what i think and maybe you must read it once again. i wrote that i don't protect soviets, i don't support soviets and surely i don't advertise soviets :lol: from my point of view this world is not black/white, hope you also have no problems with your eyes :D :D

oh, vaiva, i have an idea if you want to talk about soviets :lol: when my communist boyfiend comes home - i'll give him this link :lol:

hmm my parents born in CCCP, grown and end universitat free, can travel in others land who be in CCCP very cheap, when maried became a flat free, have a work without problem. My grandma say - not russian or german was bad, not simple people but politic system .
but yes this not place speak about this. All imperium have and good and bad side. ;) better see in future not back

This topic is about all the countries which are dishonest. Limited only to 'poor' ones. :lol:

Your grandma was right :) In all times, in all systems, there have always been authorities (decision makers), institutions that supported or struggleed with them and common people who followed various philosophies, values & norms, views, etc. etc. These three notions should not be confused when discussing sensitive issuses :|

Vaiva, I understood Morian was just trying to point out how stereotypical Draggar's commnent was. 8)

BTW, could the moderator cut the "historic" part out from the main topic?

yes, rona, you're 100% right :)

I did not acuse any countries or people - just the system ;) Many friends of mine are russians, but non of them are comunists :lol: And - Rona - in communist times Poland and Czechoslovakia seemed a nice dream when looking from Lithuania.
Yes, it was nice - studies for free (just be a member of young comunists, have exams from atheism and so on), flats for free (just be a good behaving member of a comunist party, do not think too much also), but to buy a refrigerator you have to stand in line :lol: Same three kinds of sausage in a shop (including this ugly "no-meet" boiled thing "šlapenka"), standing in line for an hour for toilet paper (when there is some, not allways!!!), oranges only on Christmas. Same clothes for everyone (still remember sometimes with my friends - "did you have a black synthetic fur coat with round wooden buttons? Mine were green"). Jeans only if you have an uncle in USA who sent it (I still have one in Florida ;)). And also there was no crime or disabled people, yes, just because newspapers could not write about bad things, only about great tractor drivers and happy factory workers, and nobody cared about disabled people :D

It is so good to live in a comunist country - not much working, not much thinking and everything is given for free :D Slaves are allways happy if they do not need to work too much and get some cheap food and vodka, aren't they?

you to young member this all :lol: and speak like this type people who not know who was realy but only heard about this.
slaves are not this people who stay in Lithuania and not runn - not all but bigest procent and was free in mind and in heart, slaves for good lives are this who runn away and cry - "they are a patriots" ...
funny this all and not moore.

Yes, I quted my mum ;) But still remember the same clothes that everyone had and living in... do not know the word in English... a place where ten young familys share one kitchen, one toilet and one shower :lol: My mother still remembers evenings, when they had two eggs and baked them silently, afraid, that if I will wake up and also want one - in this case one of them will stay hungry. And this is a family of both working lawyers and a child, still in kindergarden, living in town (countryside was in better situation).

In this case slaves are the ones, who do not care for freedom, for ability to have their own country and their right to speak/write/think/even sing what they want to, if they just can have something for free... The ones that still say "ah, I do not care for freedom, give me cheap sausage".

it all smells like teen maximalism :lol: when a person is unable to perceive reality objectively, (s)he should seek medical help. i speak as a physician 8)

A good trick when you have no arguments is to say that the contradicting person has problems with his mind :lol: Also reminds of something... To acuse people they are mentaly sick and for this to hold them isolated... :roll: :lol:

One little British girl a few years older than you, Vaiva came to Poland in 1986. When I asked if she liked the country she replied: "I never thought the sun would be shining in a communist country, I thought everything would have to be grey and rainy.":lol:

I don't miss the old times at all and I know what I'm talking about. Both my husband and I have our share in fighting the system, and it wasn't funny at all. :( But people's feelings are universal and in all times they strive for happiness. We were sociable, sensitive, happy and adventurous although we were living under the regime and many times risked our careers and freedom just to behave decently.

It's true, there were some useless ideological subjects at the university but in Poland they either were treated lightly, or taught by wise lectureres who under stupid labels smuggled interesting content. I was lucky to have brilliant courses in the history of economics and philosophy under the "Political economics of socialism" and similar subjects.

Being a slave is mental, not physical or temporal. There are happy slaves in every system and free people in jails. If you look at the masses of people entering every morning huge multinational corporations in their identical suits and realize they'll stay there until dark, don't you see slaves in them? I do. :|
Under communist rules there were many creative people who worked hard and despite the silly inefficient system did great jobs in various professions, but there were also many lazy and demotivated greedy guys. Just like now!

Just to make it clear: I wasn't a member of a communist party, nor did I get a free flat.:) My family also suffered from the communist system, but it's not a reason to feel bitter all the time and poison the next generations with this bitterness. :? History is history - cannot be changed. I find much more disturbing that politicians do not profit from the knowledge of the past and keep repeating the same mistakes again and again :(

vaiva, don't tell me about arguments because you still gave no arguments, not me. you only repeat over and over again the same things, by the way not argumented. do you want me to use statistics here, historical facts etc.? i don't want to start a "holy war" here, really. some people tell their point of view, but you ignore it as you ignore objective reality. you just try to oppose yourself to the system. what do you want to show by this - how freedom, possibility to stand out from the crowd or need to have jeans is important for you? :lol: if you want to be free, first what you can do is to reject stereotypical thinking and to stop monochrome vision of the word. are you able to? seems you aren't.

exactly.. now i see moore slaves like in old time. YES I not want for back this time too, but .. Vaiva speak about ... things who not have have in this time... but or this ake people happy? not family? not friends? only things- tualet paper, or "slapenka". I know hystory from 1936- this hystory about live in wars time, in cccp time tell my grandma - about german oficer about rusian about ours partizans, about live in new system .. ant this are hystory simple women who have a 7 child who born in war time ( 3 brothers), simply women, who not are politic party member or wife "big sef".
this people like my grandma and know realy hystory, not this who written book about this. 8);-)

Sure, this was the point in the very begining of the discussion. That people do not become pigs when they live in difficult conditions.
I am not talking abou people, I am talking about certain political system.

Sure, but this is the way they chose themselves.

Sure, also there where people, who were imprisoned because of their creativity, works or religion.

You had to be at least a young comunist, or was the system in Poland different?

Maybe they simply are fast to forget the history? ;-)
There is no need to be bitter, but knowing history allways helps.

Back to the topic - would a project like Czechoslovakian wolfdog be possible in a todays democratic country? If yes, how different a breed would be?

P.S. Totally hate quoting on wolfdog.org

i think like a sarlos :)))
yes I agree - not place for this and .... hystory is hystory, live is live :)

Sure, and only you have grandparents, other people don't :lol:

Familys are happy when they are all alive and together, in all the times. But still there is a big difference, when your family member is working in London and you know he or she is alive, wors is to not know if your family member is still alive or not is Siberia.

Yes, and I am telling my point of view :lol: What is wrong?

My daughter is your age ;):lol:

So it does not explain if you were a young comunist or not :lol: I am sure you had to be a pioneer :roll: