Northern inuit dog
 

after searching for a CzW or SW for many years, i was delighted to be
offered a pup as i am in the uk. but due to an unknown sorce email i was
rejected because i have an english breed known as the northern inuit dog.
even more distressing to find out was that someone who has utonagan (a breed
that up until 1 month ago we're also known as northern inuit but as faction
club registering unknown dogs and they we're unconected with the northern
inuit society!) has 3 booked for next year!
i am at home all day, willing to give endless walks. we have even sold our
house so we can have more room for our dogs to play. i was willing to comply
to all breeding terms even if extreme.
This utonagan owners is already advertising CzW and SW pups but due to a
mutal 'friend' of hers and formally mine, who's dogs i washed when they had
mange, and scrubbed the died feaces from her bedroom carpet and helpped find
homes for her pups only to be cast aside because i was pregnant! getting one
from her would be impossible.
i even invited the gentleman with the CzW to check my reffs from our vet,
dog warden and a show judge/breeder of 30 years.

how do you quailify to be a new owner?

VERY UPSET!
 

Hello Stephen,

I wanted to ask you why you are so upset, because I didn't understand your
message quiet well. Is it because you were offered a puppy in UK or is
because people refused you a puppy.
By the way where do you live and what is a northern inuit dog. How is this
dog look like. Is this a Indian Dog??

Many regards,

Letty

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

The Inuit is also known as the Canadian Eskimo dog. It is not well known,
but was used as a war dog in the 1940's. It can pull up to twice it's
weight in carting activities. They are not a very well developed breed that
I can tell (perhapse I am wrong), but I have seen them come in a shorter GSD
type fur, all the way up to longer chow type fur. Some look like huskies,
some look like chow-malamute crosses. I am not an expert however, so I am
sure there is much more I do not know! I do know it is NOT an American
Indian Dog, and I beleive it used to be called simply "Eskimo" here in the
past. Hope this helps!

~Silver Dragon~

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

hello koos de graaff,
my name is laura. i had a puppy offered to me, and was told it would be
imported, i was willing to pay the £1900 asking price but because i have
northern inuit dogs i was then sent an email saying he didn't want me to
have one because i had these dogs. northern inuit dogs are the uk wolf
alike. very soft and loving as you will know from your own type of dog. but
because i own this breed i have been black listed. the breeders won't reply
to my emails and this has distressed me a lot as i have dreamed of having a
CzW or SW. we are moving house so we have extra room for the dogs, i'm at
home all day, i have references from my vet, dog warden and many others to
prove that i love my dogs (or as my family thinks, my life works round them)
i would love one of these dogs and feel hurt at the fact that i have had no
reply or explanation.
laura

VERY UPSET!
 

northern inuit dogs are a uk breed which was bred to be wolfish in type. it
was started in 1987 and the society are working very hard towards kc
registration. they are not connected to the canidian inuit. they are loving,
gentle and intellegent with hearts bigger than they are.
www.northern.inuits.7p.com
laura

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

Hello Laura,

I would not always say that CsVs are soft and loving (though they can be
very very sweet if they want to). I don't know if you have ever met real
CsVs or SWs. You could visit a dog show or a breeder, better many breeders.
And I am not sure that an own room is enough for a CsV while it is alone at
home (you said you are at home all day, even if so, sometimes you must leave
your dogs alone) . My CsVs are in a kennel when we are not home, I tried to
keep them in the room first but, it didn't work because they can open
windows and doors. I even had bars front of the window but my male dog
pulled them away ... and if they can't open then they brake ... So, don't be
upset and don't rush into having one. I believe that you love your dogs, but
do you really love a CsV or just a dream about it. Try to learn to know as
many CsVs as possible and then you will know ...

Best regards, Minna

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

Dear Laura,
I still don´t understand what was the problem about your innuit dogs. But I
totally agree with Minna, you should get to know these dogs very well before you
get one, there are lots of people who had to realise that they are not able to
handle one and it will be very difficult to find a new owner in your country.
You shouldn´t buy from the first breeder you find and you shouldn´t buy a dog of
a breeder who is willing to sell you a puppy just because you want one,
especially when he doesn´t know you personally. The dog you have been offered was
much too expensive. The easiest way to get to know dogs and people are special
dog shows and especially summercamps. There are camps each year in Slovakia and
the Czech Repuplic and we are organizing a special show with a camp end of August
next year in Bavaria, there are cheap flights from the UK to all of these
countries.
There is also the opportunity to come to our place with a group of dog and wolf
lovers from the UK in may 2003. Dr. Peter Neville (UK)a famous dog behaviourist
organizes this wolftour to our place every year and you have the possibility to
see and handle a pack of 5 wolfdogs for one week apart from walks in wolfarea and
joining a seminar with Prof. Ray Coppinger, USA, about dog and wolf behaviour.
You can get further information on Peters website www.pets.f9.co.uk if you are
interested.

Regards Ina

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

thank you for the info Ina, i will condider coming over but i might have to
get some help first cause i'm terrified of flying and going on ferries or
the euro tunnel but if i get some help for that i should be able to come
over.
we are aware of the training involved and i am perpared for all they could
throw at me. we also have 2 German shepherds, both bitches, both big softies
who love everyone. we have kennels and we are moving house soon and we are
buying larger and better kennels. i do understand what you are saying but
i'm also the kind of person who would not part with any of my dogs even our
rescued GSD who had been beaten and starved before we aided her. she caused
£3000 of damage but she didn't understand she just wanted some fun (this was
while we slept at night!)
yes sometimes i do go out but if i'll be out more than an hour i get a
dogsitter in and we don't go on holiday because i can't leave them!
thank you for your advice and kind words. I hope that the CzW and SW will
become registered in the uk and wish you all sucess.

the problem was that he said i'd cross bred them with my northern
inuit,which is something i would not have done.

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

Dear Laura,
believe me, you are not prepared for everything they could throw on you. I wasn´t
and I´m a veterinary surgeon and do behaviour therapy on dogs.Ask Peter Neville,
he knows our dogs very well.
Regards Ina

Re:VERY UPSET!
 

Hello Laura,
1900 pound sterling for a puppy is a complete rip off!
Could you please name the breeder or dog dealer on this list because this would
maybe help us to proscribe profiteers like this person.
Thanks,Michael

Hi there
 

Hi

I just wanted to post a message to everyone to introduce myself, I have 3 czech wolf hybrids and 1 sarloos currently, love them to pieces, and looking forward to sharing my experience with everyone.....

Bye
Taloowa

Could you be more specific? What is a czech wolf hybrid? I don't think anybody on this forum has ever heard about such dogs... or maybe hybrids?:twisted:

Hi there

Yeah they are Czech wolf mixed with a Northern Inuit..... to create a hybrid.....they are as sweet as anything bless them:)

hi there, thought id just let you know that, you might get a few negative messages on this site, as a lot of people on here dont like cwd cosses and can be quite rude about it. hope u find some this site helpfull though:)

Hi there

Thanks for the info, I had heard, as it seems to of gained a repuation from other people, however if you want to learn about a breed and know what the dogs are really like and there behaviour, its best to go to the source, I am here to learn, not to do politics and maybe share a few stories but thanks for the warning;)

Hi,

welcome to this forum.
Sorry to bother you again, but what is a Czech wolf?
Is it a wolf from Czech Republic, taken out of a den maybe, because there are hardly any wolves in this country.
Or is it a wolf from a zoo in Czech Republic.

Regards,
Michael

Hi there

It is a wolf crossed with a wolf in the 1950's and then the wolf is breed out, so u end up with a dog that looks like a wolf, some people here have crossed them, with Northern Inuit, but they are just a look alike wolf. who are a stupid as anything:)

Bye
Averil

Hello taloowa
 

I agree with Tikaani in the fact that in this site you will find some people who I consider too much proud of belonging a checoslovaquian wolfdog. I can asure you that if your dogs are not pedigreed most of the people here won´t allow you belonging to their "club".

This is also because they are very afraid that the "breed" dissapears... somebody told this to me.

Bye.

Oh well thats there loss.... I can live without people like that... I am here to gain information about the breed, and learn new things, and gain friends if people are not interested in being friends or friendly then they can look else were....

I love my dogs and they are part of this breed, if people want to bitch thats down to them as they obviously have enough time todo so.

On the other hand, I dont have the time to argue or bitch, as I work, have a family and own 6 dogs....

Will to chat to anyone that wants to be friends, and thank you for your advice

Bye
Taloowa

Hello again
 

Hello,

I didn´t want to mean that everybody here are like this, but I´ve found some of them. On the other hand, here in Spain there is a wolfdog called Ivayn (I think so) and their owners are quite nice people.

Nah thats cool, I understand and thank you for the warning both of you:lol: its sad to think people are like that, especially over the internet.

Do you have wolf dogs?

Bye
Taloowa

Hi Talowa, how you know, that in blood your dogs are exactly blood of CsW ? I agree, that lot of people here dont like the crossing our breed with other (I dont understand it too - dont see the sense).

Hi

I know what is in my dogs as I have met there mother and seen her pedigree and have checked the parents of that dog too.

Bye
Averil

And who is the mother, if is it not top secret ?

lynx legend is mother and grandparents are atlasz and lexa seda eminence


my what a warm welcome i am getting.... cant believe people can be so petty.....when all we want is to care about the animals we love...

Looking at the "Cry Wolf" link under your profile information, "Tramotae" is listed as a pure CSV, and I think I saw another mix...are one of these the mother? I also saw a link to "De Louba Tar" - maybe the mother came from this kennel? Or through the imports of another British breeder?

Hi there

Loppy Lou is the mother of mine for the czech wolf, and he has sarloos from the French Kennels, which he is currently breeding

Bye
Averil

No that is not the problem at all...:lol:

I think the problem is that the mixing is done by people that are no experts on mix-breeding, and If you cross a CsV whit an udder dog the mix might show aggresion against humans...and if there will be an accedent the CsV and the wolf blood will bee blamed, not the one ho mix the breed or the udder dogbreed...

Do not get me wrong I like mixing, CsV is a mixt dog breed to, but it is done by experts and not farmers !!!

Regards / Mikael

Hey there

I like that answer, i can see that happening.. Well I can safley tell you that my dogs are as silly as they come lol and live with my 3 young kids, but we find here in England it is not the dogs to blame for the ones that bit or something its the owners who dont know things.

Bye
Averil

Every crossing must have some sense (dveloping new breed, health improvent etc). But this all senses must makes people, which are competent for it. Because many CsW is crossing absolutelly without sense and its only destruction the breed.

I agree that crossing with some breeds would be fatel to the czech, however if carefully done, and carefully chosen, it could be succesful,
the temprment of the dog, and the gentics of the chosen dog, has to be carefully considered, there are a lot of people out there that will try and mate it and create a monster i agree, but matching it to something similar, can be a good thing when the bloodlines of the dogs are so narrow. And a possible inbreeding and gaining disease could be worse than bringing in new blood...

Yes I agree that it is in 95% the owners that are to blame, but some people ho buy a mix dog whit CsV in, do not know how demanding they can bee, and that they are differant to train...and sens it is a mix nobody realy knows how demanding the mix will bee and so one...


/ Mikael

I agree crossbreeding could be fatal to any breed, but my carefully chosing the dog and temprament and gentics a little of new blood can be a good thing.

As the bloodlines on these breeds are so small we could end up inbreeding at some point and creating problems.

So a little of something new is a good thing, even mother nature shows us that, to create the dog in the first place you had to have a wolf and a GSD, and if she had not wanted them mixed then they would not of mated...

So carefull selection like mother nature is a good thing..

sorry did not mean to post that twice my computer died lol

Yes I agree, but I do not think it is a good thing to mix a new blood line at home...

I leve that to the experts on CsV in Cz and Sk.

But you are right new blood is needed, but then it is good that FCI alowes new blood to bee added. But only under strikt forms by the mother clubs.

/ Mikael

Its good question, but the solving is not wild crossing the dogs. This problem solving breeding commisions, where are the competent people.

well the orignal czech wolf was created to try and help the gsd, and its problems, the same as the sarloos, netiher people then were experts, and the experts are not mother nature.What my dogs are, have been carefully chosen to create a dog that is not much different from your own, in looks and temprament, they are similar, only mine have some new blood in them.I think people have to think about the bloodlines in these breeds and realise that they are not large and they are very small. That could create more problems then good.

I agree Pavel crossing with a labrador or poodle would not be the greatest thing to do out there with the czech, and i would hope no one would.

It does mean someone has to carefully chose the correct dog and temprament and bloodline, and i agree there are to many people out there doing things just for some money.

As I say, I would hate to see a czech mate with a poodle or something.

I understand were u are coming from, and agree it has to be done carfully, I think what makes people worry is the moment something goes wrong the wolf would be blamed, and i think that is more down to owners then to a slight differnet bloodline....personally

Yes but wild crossing whit udder breeds might also bring in heriditary diseases to, there fore I think it is better to let the mother clubs do it.

If it is done today, DNA test are to bee used to create a 100% healthy blood line.

/ M

I take it Mikel you mean someone just mixing a czech with a labrador or soemthing when u say a wild cross? as in its not been thought about ?

Hi Taloowa,

coming back to the point. What are you talking about anyway?
About so called Czech wolves or just ordinary, bloody Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs?
The latter mentioned is, by the way, a FCI recognized breed.

Cheers,
Michael

Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.....thats were i started....... thats what i have a crossbred of.......its late and to confusing lol


How ever the breed here is not recognised:(

No I meant crossing whit Saarloos, GSD or new wolves whitaot any tests...Crossing a CsV whit labrador I think nobody will do becose there are no reasen...

But yes I know there are pedigree Saarloos whit CsV in the bood line, and that might bee good fore the Saarloos wolfhound but I do not think nobody wonts Saarloos in there CsV pedigree, if you know what I mean...

/ M

I´ve read in this forum that lynx legend was born in August 2001, had a litter (with brix de louba tar) in December 2003 and died in January 2004.

If these informations are true it seems you own at least one pure CsW!!??

What you don´t seem to realize is that crossng isn´t a benefit in itself. If it is necessary - and as a vet I don´t think so at that point - it should be carefully done. It is no problem as long as you cross them with labradors and poodles, you will always see this is no CSW, but it is a problem when it is done irresponsible. We have the problem now that there are dogs coming into breeding that are not purebred, that nobody knows anything about, that may include breeds with severe heriditary problems or that might be wolfcrosses, what normally causes enough problems in itself. The persons crossing them are definetly no honest, responsible persons. If the breeder of your dog is the one I think I wouldn´t believe one word he is saying, insulting everybody who didn´t share his opinion following strange ideas theat definetly weren´t of any interest but his own.
Therefore I am no friend of crosses, at this point we don´t need them, they are not controlled, they are just result of breeding of persons I don´t trust one second. People like that can ruin a breed or severly harm it.

Ina

Yes unserius CsV breeders that mix in udder breeds or wolf and say it is a CsV are the bigest problem I think.

In Sweden no CsV will get the pedigree whitout DNA test that proves ho the parents are, this to not get new wolfbood in the Swedish population.

Maby this DNA test would bee good in all CsV contrys ?

/ Mikael

Hi,

sorry, you were talking of Czech wolves but not of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.

Michael

how do you carefully consider the genetics of a northern Inuit when the dogs used in the original brreedings are unknown?

Hello cpw. How do you think, csw in start of breeding are unknown? We know all german sheepdogs and all wolves used in breeding of csw.

Hi there

I own a daughter of Lynx Legend, and she was created by mixing with a Northern Inuit. so she is half csv.

Bye
Taloowa

that depends on where u have your info from and paper work from, believe me this is a discussion that is currently takeing place on my normal forum about the NI and all the paper work of them is currently being printed on our forum, however, having and knowing the orginal breeder from the UK that started this and I am not talking about Julie Kelham, I am talking before her, and having a health line with no faults, there is no harm in adding the new blood if the bloodline is clean from faults, and the dog used is very sweet natured.

With any cross you need to make sure that both lines are clear from faults, and I am sure there are plenty of breeders that get it wrong, even in your countries.

I have seen enough hybrids to know they are soft and sweet thats for sure, knowing my kids can walk througha field of 20 of them at the age of 3 tells u they are sweet natured.

May I ask who my breeder is? And why he/she is such a problem, its a bit of a insult to say something like taht.

You are intitled to your opinion but I have to say I dont share it with you, I think you are very, closed minded, and there fore do not understand nature at all.

Mother nature is always crossing things, with out u, and yes i agree there are a lot of idiots out there.

However you as a person who owns a dog that has small bloodlines also have to think about increasing the blood line in them. You know as well as I do that you will get gentic faults in them, at some point. becuase new blood is not introduce, we are seeing it here in England alot, even with the GSD or the Labrador or with the NI, or the King Charles Spainel, they all have limited lines, and they are now all very ill.

People are now having to think how to get out of this and its down to us to help the breeds before they get to that stage, and that is what is happening.

Hi
It is also the same breeding for the sarloos too, only and timber wolf rather then a european wolf, This was in the 1960's slightly later then the csv.
And since then no wolf has been introdiced to either breed, as far as i am aware. please correct me if i am wrong onthe:)

Hi there

Again, feel like i have not stop talking so far:)

Here in the UK there is no one to stop you from crossing what u like. we have the kennel club, who u can register the dogs with how ever they dont except sarloos or csv.

I assume there are people in Europe that stop you from doing this?

Again you are lucky as your breeders are registered which does help

And i think 'breeders' crossing SWD and TWD with other dogs, is not helping the procces of getting the breeds acknowledged :roll:

I am very much opposed to cross breeding the way it is so often done, a selfacclaimed specialist does it, claiming to know best and safe the breed this way... If so despretely needed, why not do it with the backing of the official institutes??

mentioned earlier in this discussion was a probable TwD # SWD crossing and the offspring having official pedigrees... The writer mentioned that that might be good for the SWD but TWD might not want these crosses.. well let me tell you, i picked the SWD because of temperament, character etc, its breeds specifics. A TWD might seem similair in appaerance at first glance, but no more that that... so i as a SWD owner also pass for the crosses, and do not believe these bring health benifits, cause like the SWD, the TWD has also some 'flaws' in health.
I love the TWD as a breed, see it as a breed where there is also still work to be done, and neither the SWD or TWD imho benefit from wild crosses at the moment. There might come a time when outcross may be needed, but hopefully than that can be done with care, cooperation from several breed clubs ect!

It is the Inuit, along with the Utonagen and Tamaskan that are unknown and or kept secret. As you say, The pedigrees of all Csw can be traced all the way back to the founders of the breed.
charles

Well I have never heard so much crap in all my life, for life to exisit you have to have mother nature or people, and in mother nature she crosses every animal to create a animal.

I cannot believe that people on here are so narrow minded, I came here to chat to people and have a nice converstation with people who care, all i see is narrowmind, people, who realy have nothing better to do than slate someone for the type of dog they have, wether it be 100% or 75% etc, you all really need to grow up a little, and start looking around you.....

I dont care for you or your gentics I care about how my family feel about the dogs, and what a change they have made to my life, i come to these forums to learn new things about them and to learn how i can give them a better life, it is obvious here the fast majority of people are not worth talking to.

For those of you that have emailed me I am quite happy to continue talking to you.

But the rest of you who claim u know what u are doing you have no clue at all... you are as bad as the rest of us.

People come to these sites to learn about the breed and chat to owners, in a friendly manner, not get penalised for the dogs they own...

You Should try being friends and maybe just maybe people will want to be friends and help the breed, and maybe even keep the breed as it is.
But u will never know, as your attitudes really need changing, you cant stop breeders from, doing things, and until u accept that you will never help your breed or any other breed for that matter

Hi Taloowa,

thanks for your answers. - I absolutely agree with Ina. If you read the posts of the owner of Lynx Legend you´ll see he really insulted everybody who did not share his opinion. I myself got some ugly pm.

Coming back to Lynx Legend: most of female CsW are on heat first with 20-24 months. Lynx Legend had had her CsW-litter with 28 months.

Sorry, I don´t want to be impolite but - if the informations about her are true - she could not have had a litter with a Northern Inuit because she unfortunately died being 29 months old.

cheers
Angelika

mmmm interesting, as she is still alive and about 6 years old, living in Devon.....

loupy lou is still alive and breathing......

in actual fact i spent a weekend with her about 6 weeks ago....

bye

Hello again

I think people are not against new blood or a blood line, but it is important that it is done by experts on CsV and mix-breeding, not by just any privet kennel that has dollar interests...

And you are right new bood is needed, but mixing in Saarloos that has BIG health problems is not the anwer...

And the CsV people and clubs are not narrow like udder breeding clubs, in the CsV population new blood can bee added. How many udder breed clubs in Europe are willing to do that ??? only CsV as I know...

And the problem in not you or your dogs, It is your political belife that you will help us, but as Rona say it is not that easy, it thakes years of selection, generation after generation...to make sure that the line is healthy and are folowing the standard of CsV...

Best Regards / Mikael

Oh well thats your choice to believe what u want.....

People who do this for money do not care for the dogs and keep them in bad condition, i dont see any of that, were my dogs come from, and currently i dont see any crossing with a sarloos neither.

What i do see is beautiful dogs, that love us, and there families. I see lots of people who love and care for them and who want to learn more about them.

The CSV club can have there little club i really dont care, and to tell u the honest truth if i turned out to be a preach like you lot i would hate myself...

I like to be open and friendly and make general chat and thats what i am here for...

And you are welcome to do that, atleast by me, but do not expect people to think like you or have your thinking about mixing CsV...

Regards / Mikael

grow up
 

well personly, im all for people comin on this site even if they dont have full breed cwd, at the end of the day were here to help out in to educate people about the breed. most people on here sound more like friggin hitler somtimes, if you aint got a pedagree its no good, what a load of crap. if that was the case thed be no dogs about couse at the end of the day they have all been cross breed to get to the point there at now. i can understand people wanting to have a pure breed dog but, being realiostic people are going to always croos dogs, dusnt mater what they are. in the end as long as its dun responsably i dont mind. having a go at some one isnt going to help is it......:cry:

thank you for the support there:) what i dont get is that every dog on the planet goes back to 3 - 4 wolves, and then what is not wanted is bred out and what is wnated is bred in, and mother nature always has a way of changing things even on the most perfect animal.

People that dont listen to new blood or take change as it comes, with peoples hard work and dedication becuase they dont have letters after there name does not mean they are destroying it, it could be they are improving it.

i dont care what people think of me or my dogs, and if they are that stupid then i dont need them as friends or to talk too....

I have already gained some friends on here, and I hope to gain some more, and guess what they all have dogs like me....

no need to bring in a moderator as are creating a discussion that if you are adult enough to talk about, is a good discussion, you obvioulsy just dont like cross breeds and is rather a phathetic reason to close a good discussion if you dont like it leave the thead.

Grow up a little and actually have a discussion dont run and hide behind moderators

Funny I had the same impression as RONA about the dyslectic britt. Similar spelling errors throughout the posts. I completely agree with Rona about the action against it.

Can some one tell me what is so wrong with a discussion that started out being friendly and wanting to learn more about the csv,when all you lot do is moan about cross breeds, if you dont like the thread then maybe you should think about sticking with your own countries, in actual fact i tell you what

I will breed my dog with all the other english people and mix them how we see fit, with its csv to csv or maybe something else.....and i tell you soemthing else, i will go to a forum were people except what dog you have, or dont have as the case maybe.

And for your information you english is not that great either....

but i case you have to get personal when you dont have a god arguement hey......

@ taloowa
Just for information - here you´ll find that "solowolf" buried Lynx Legend: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=564

@ tikaani
I´m a bit disappointed. If there are no arguments left some people always pull this man out of the hat. This is a forum about CsW, not a historical one.


I share your opinion, Rona.

Hi and Wellcome! :)
When you chose a breeder for buy your dogs, of course you ever search for the best, I'm sure that if you don't believe in he at the time you buy your dogs, you won't buy then with this breeder.
BUT sometimes what we think and sometimes see is pretty different from reallity, sometimes a breeder wich seems make a good work in truth makes nothing more than mate dogs and sold, mix they and so on, I'm not saying that this was the case of your dogs breeder, but this is pretty common to happen.
Nobody will talk like that about a good breeder or a minimum serious person, please think about it, why nobody breeder/owner - outside UK here was against what Ina said?

Mother nature is quite cruel and cold, yes, she cross things without us, she gaves lifes as she takes lifes away, sometimes in a pretty cruel way.
His selection is cruel and not allow weak and problematic animals survive, this is natural selection, kill every weak, unprepared or problematic animal, only 2 or 3 of one litter will survive t'ill mate, if mate... thank's God this selection no longer happen in dog breeds by humans, I think a pretty similar selection way was used in the formation of CzW... well know unethical.
Please, don't compare mother nature with human selection in dog breed, this is almost impossible to do now.

These breeds on England are in a very different situation, I know a little bit how difficult is to bringing new bloodlines in England legally and the high ammount of things needed to send a dog to UK.
I saw too the documentary of BBC about the pedigree dogs, I agree a lot about what has been said but I think that this may not be leaved as the only truth, for UK maybe it be, but isn't over the world.
I had see some pedigrees of Cavaliers King Charlies Spaniels from UK wich shows Siringomielia and I find even mate between completly brothers wich are already comming from a pretty close imbreeding, sometimes I guess how the puppies of this litter born, no doubts mother nature fails in the selection cause mans hand, but this is pretty common to happen in dog breeding, breeding dogs not pass for natural selection as wild animals do.


Luckly thanks to this site we can easly find complet pedigree of most part of the dogs, HD and ED results, working and dogshows results, how many litter... we all knows how many lines this breed have, what's the real consanguinity situation as how the breeders are working, how make aproperlly work, who do the right, who do wrong... I'm sure that if the breeders of more popular breeds find information easly like this, these kind of problems woudn't appear, I don't think a minimally good hearted person will wish put in the world a dog with siringomielia, displasy and other illness wich ends with the dog's life quality, well, unfortunatelly we ever will find in every breed puppymills wich not cares for the dogs,puppies and so on.
People get easly informed about the real situation of the breed and so, only work wrong who don't want work more for making the things right.
The breed is pretty controled and seems have very responsible clubs in his origin countries wich do a serious work too.
When be real needed a new bloodline, surelly SK and CZ clubs will take care of it, they're responsible for the breed , they're the origin country and we must respect it waiting THEYR decision, not doing hybrids, falses pedigrees and trying to make suposed new lines because someone wants and this person listen its needed.

?
 

? i havent pulled any one out of the hat, please explain. all i have sead is that i think people should be more freindly on here and get of there high horses as it dusnt do any one any good.:(

Well just a thing to think about. You came to a site for FCI-purebred dogs, you asked for crosses, you got explanations. When you didn´t like them you got insulting.
For me you are unfriendly and on a high horse.:roll:

Ina

oh well
 

i dint come on here for info, and i have a pure bread cwd, i came on here to chat to some one who was new on here and got treated like crap becouse she has a cross bread, i at least gave her the time of day. i think we seem to have totaly diferant opinions so its probly best if we dont chat to one unuther if all were gona do on here is argue. sorry if you feel that way about peoples dogs. bye:(

Yes I agree we can talk and share experience...
but when some one enter a forum for pure CsV and call the clubs
and breeders narrow and incompetent, I think it is not the best start...

Regards / Mikael

Lynx The Legend
 

Hello Avril
I would like to just make you aware that Loup in Devon was previously owned by me.
She is called Reine De La Nuit her mother was Lynx The Legend and she died in Kent before I picked up my two puppies up.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding.
Andre

Inuit dog
 

new breed plan :
http://www.inuits.co.uk/11.html
12th January 2009
From Chea and Titan


I think Chea be wolf like dog, who is she breed I not cann say.Titn be pure CSW and... be reproductor mix dog.


and now he have litter- Saarlos and mix dog.
cytat:
http://www.inuits.co.uk/12.html
Litter of 3/4 Saarloos puppies from Boots and Carlic born 1st December, 5 dogs and 3 bitches

and who be quaranty about Shoshone pupps -be this pupps pure breed or not (who now reklam in WD site -planed litter)

sorry we do not have bastard litter from CSW and saarloos I DO NOT OWN TITAN LOBO as i said before PACINO KENNELS DO NOT CROSS BREED CSW WOLFDOGS now go find out who is doing the cross breeding then come back on line and appologise for your loose talk with no facts, PACINO KENNELS UK.

where she said there that it was you? :shock:
She wrote about Shoshone, another supposed UK breeder wich have dogs from your kennel as we know... and if not deceif-me, make part of your supposed club, isn't it? maybe i'm wrong.... maybe...

Paul... talking about loose talk.... where is the cd you PROMISED ME....????
the cd with all the SO CALLED "FACTS"... ???
you don't have to wrap it up in Christmas paper for me...I'll take it as it is..

Bengan

Personally, I'm surprised that this is not already standard practise with all dog breeds throughout most countries.

who is breeding these czech wolf inuit dogs,

look forward to you telling us all who is the breeder of such dogs??? please tell this site,,,,,,

hey who ever you are i bred the only litter from lynx legend and i would like now to know what pedigree you have with my bitchs name on it, and what is the name of this dog, i would also like the name of the breeder,i would like copy sent to [email protected] asap,,,mr p winder. Or phone me 01233758329. Lynx legend was never used in cross breeding.

hey lady you need to get some fact correct before coming onto a web site and talking rubbish, lynx legend climbed a 8 foot wall after a cat and was killed on the road when her puppies where only 6 weeks old, she died in my arms and my wife and friend where also with me. Her grave is in my friends garden. Bloody people.......

One breeder of such dogs(according to their own website) you can find here :
http://www.ookaminida.co.uk/puppyinfo/puppyinfo.html

But I have ofcourse no idea if this is the kennel in question ?

Greetings Rolf

I just found one more breeder who uses CSW to mix with Inuit dogs
http://www.freewebs.com/jann1/litters.htm

Greetings Rolf

The problem in the UK is as already stated that the Czech wolf dog and Saarloos have only just been made legal without the need for licences. If they had been legal in the first place the Inuit/Utonagon e.t.c would not have ever been created. Now that they are legal, the crossing of Czechs and Saarloos with Inuits in the past seems to have ruined the chances of being able to breed pure bred CsV and Saarloos dogs in the Uk for fear of crossing. To us, the chance to have a half CsV or Saarloos was the nearest thing we were going to get to a pure bred and lots of money has been exchanged for these dogs.

What should have happened now that the breeds are legal is for Inuit breeders to have imported the best lines that they could afford to and faded the Inuit out, there is of course no need for a breed that after being bred for the length of time it has, still has very little type and breed standard to continue. The NI also of course being riddled with health issues.

I will agree with the OP though in saying the Inuit and Inuit crosses are lovely dogs and some are real stunners. Please remember GSD breeders may have shared the same opinions and views as many of you when Dr L Saarloos decided to cross the GSD with a wolf.

Well, Navajo, I think GSD breeders had two less things to worry about when both saarlos and czechoslovak wolfdogs were started to be created:

1. passing mixes as purebred with false papers
2. bad public opinion of GSD if such mixes would attack people or destroy property

1. Simple answer is compulsory dna testing, even if it is limited to UK breeders only. When we breed thoroughbreds for racing or point to pointing we have to have them dna tested, a blood sample is also taken and microchipped before Weatherbys will register them as foals. But, I agree, now that the breeds are legal there is no reason to be crossing them whether with Inuits, Wolves or Saarloos x Czech. I don't think it's correct. It will continue though, especially as now Czech and Saarloos breeders in Europe are wary of exporting anything to the Uk. Now UK breeders only have what is already in the UK to work with.

2. I think GSD breeders would have had this concern. There would have been no proof back then as to whether it was the wolf or the GSD in the Czech or Saarloos which was showing agression (if it had happened). I know which I would have had my money on, there's a reason the Armed forces and police use GSD's as protection dogs.

CWD in the uk
 

:evil:I think trying to stop people selling CWD to the uk is a narrow minded and stupid thing to do. yes there has been cross breading here in the uk but that dusnt meen every breeder is going to do it. I have a pure breed CWD and inted to breed her in a few years time with a nuther CWD but if there arnt any uther dogs to breed her with what am i supposed to do. you are limating the gene pool over here and thats never a good thing. Now that we are aloud CWD's over here there is no need to cross breed. and hopfully will not hapen any more and as for people selling cross breads as pure i havent herd of that happening here and people have been quite open about that they are selling crosses. there are a lot of resposerble breeders over here pertential owners over here that would love the chance to own a CWD but attitudes like some people on here saying that we shouldnt sell to the uk is just unfair and narrow minded.:evil:

tikaani - I agree that not selling pups to Britain is not good. But on the other hand - if I have three pups, where should I sell them - somewhere they will for almost sure be used in good breeding, or somewhere where everybody does whatever they want?

On the other hand - if you have a female, you can come and mate her on the continent. Lots of people travel long distances for mating, so you can, too.

Best of luck to all good and honest breeders all over the world

problem is if people dont sell to the uk then the dogs will end up cross bread and bad quality as there is only a few blood lines over here. there are only a few people crossing them over here but unfortunatly they are all you here about as there are so few pure bread cwds here and even if people did go abroad to bread then what would be stoping them crossing the liter when the pups have grown up, that solution just wouldnt work. there are a lot of honist good people and breeeders over here, i think giving trhem a chance would be the best course of action. most people who have cross breads only have them as they couldnt have a full breed CWD now they can they would prefer to get a pur breed so that alone should stop the cross breeding....

Moment, Saschia say who cann make - travel to Europa to mate, or... have this very problematic to make? If wish breed normal CSW, cann and mate in others lands.

Hi i agree my bitch was mated in Europe, and there was nothing to stop other czech owners from doing the same thing, every time you sell a pup how do you know the person will not cross breed, how do you know they will not be cruel to the pup, you can only go visit there home and take there word for being true, other wise you would never breed,

I agree, however what about breeding contracts, you can only breed from the bitch/dog to a pure bred bitch/dog, that means that those who want to breed pure can and the rest can forget importing a pure bred to cross.

Is AI an option in the dog world?

I disagree, there's half and quarter Czechs and Saarloos all over the place. I understand why, at the time this has happened but now both breeds are legal I see no point in it continuing.

I agree this is one way, but I do not see any reasen to not sell CsV puppys to the UK today.

If the UK not get new CsV bood the mixing of breeds will go one or there will bee inbreeding worning on the pure CsV...

Better not sell to the breeders that you know are mixing today...

Regards / Mikael

Hi,

before making plans about breeding purebred Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs in the UK, why don't we start using the the correct the name?
Instead of using the word "Czech", which is not quite polite to Slovak breeders and owners, the correct term "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" or if it's too long maybe CsW would be at least a start in the right direction in the UK.
The Slovakian Republic got the patronage on the breed and without Slovakian civil breeders in the 60's and 70's the breed would not exist at all.
By the way, though it's my opinion too this proposal was made by a Slovak judge of the breed months ago.

Thanks,
Michael

people know what they are called, its just the way they shorten it, its not to couse affence but just to save time. we have had that argument on anuther post. this is about a different subjuect so please keep to it thank you.