Czechoslovakian SHEPHERDS??!!?
 

I just read "real working breed" ! Oh my God! Did someone just let slip the best bit of info I've heard about CSV? They arent called Czechoslovakian Wolfdog they're called Czechoslovakian Shepherd!!! That means that there is a chance to register new UK-resident CSVs with a proper, not scary name. If I had gone to my local council (who have the final say)asking for their opinion on whether a Wolfdog was counted as a DWA they'd say yes because of the name. If the name can be CORRECTED then all the UK people who want to keep CSV can do so without emigrating!! They just might have to move to a different borough :wink: Oh yeah, and they can only travel around in "unrestricted" boroughs!

Where did you read it? They simply made mistake, because Czechoslovakian wolfdogs are no shepherds and I hope they never will be.
I hear many times people calling the breed the Czech, or the Czech wolfdog. Somehow, many people "forget" the Slovaks, which is crazy especially because they are the guarantee of the breed.
In Italy, there is one particular photographer, that loves to call Czechoslovakian wolfdogs simply a "wolf", because "they look like it, anyways" and because of course, it sells his calendar (in which CSWs are presented as real wolves)!


The correct name of the breed is Czechoslovakian wolfdog and as such it is registered at FCI. I strongly doubt, that because of dumbness of UK´s Defra the FCI would change the name of our breed.
The problem is not the breeds name, the problem is Defra and their crazy ideas.

I read it in "real working breed" on forum. I wouldn't trust a CSV with my sheep (if I had any) either! :wink: Nor would I trust most GSDs with sheep. Are you sure it's wrong? Vlcak doesn't translate as shepherd or sheep-dog? Can a Czech person please confirm this? Also, I agree about not leaving out the Slovaks, that's why I prefer to write CSV not CWD or any of the other, seemingly random combinations! Oh yeah.. and if it is wrong can someone teach me to pronounce Vlcak please? I hate saying wolf. I know in UK it will attract the wrong people to CSV ownership. :(
Why is FCI registered name of the breed in ENGLISH? FCI's name is in french? :? Wierd!!!

I know where this confusion comes from:

CeskoSlovensky Vlcak (CSV). As you can see the combination of letters is not random.

Now the confusion comes from the fact that in the Czech Republic German Shepherds are commonly known as Vlcak – wolfdog.

This is because the original name of the German Shepherd is NOT German Shepherd, but Alsatian Wolfdog so in the Czech Republic a reference to the original name – wolfdog – remained. (yes – they are also originally a dog-wolf mix, between Alsatian shepherds and European wolves)

Anyhow – since most people (in the West) no longer refer to German Shepherds as wolfdogs, some have started to think that vlcak, which is used for “German Shepherd” in Czech means “Shepherd” or “Shepherd-dog”.

Blatantly incorrect… but there you have it. I’m still waiting for the day when someone will point out to DEFRA that by their rules they are effectively banning all German Shepherds from the UK, I’m sure that would have interesting consequences.

As for the FCI names – I believe that the French, English, German and Spanish names of breeds are all official according to the FCI. This is not uncommon amongst international organizations – for instance in the EU a law is a law … official in all its 25 languages even though the translations sometimes say subtly different things!

No, the original name is German Shepherd, it was named Alsatian during worldwar period because many people didn´t want to own a German dog.
Grate Danes had the same problem, they are Deutsche Doggen.

Ina

Heh. 8) Well I am Czech! And I can confirm you, that "vlcak" does not mean "shepherd". "Shepherd" would be "ovcak", from the word "ovce" which means "sheep". Examples are "Nemecky ovcak - German shepherd" or "Belgicky ovcak - Belgian shepherd".
"Vlcak" comes from the word "vlk" which means "wolf". The best translation for "vlcak" then is "wolf-like" or "wolfdog".


I am not sure, if I can describe it well, how to pronounce it. I think it should be like this "vltchaak"

Mirka

Thanks for clearing the vlcak situation up.In Australia you often here the German shepherd referred to as an Alsation.Strangely enough,the uneducated will see an "Alsation" and call it vicious,but then see a German Shepherd and want to pat it!! It's very funny to see.The only difference is an 'Alsation'is a lighter colour than a German Shepherd.
On a more serious note,unlike England,Australia is not concerned by the name-Czechoslovakian Wolfdog,if that is the FCI's official,English language name.The authorities here are only concerned about wolfblood content.Any CSW imported has to be no closer than 5 generations from a pure wolf.

Slarman: I doubt that you could find today any CsW which has a wolf closer than 6-7 generation. My own bitch had a wolf in the fifth generation, and since then there are at least three generations.

British Kennel Club and DEFRA seem not be able to grasp, that Czechoslovakian Wolfdog has as much in common with the wolf as German Sheperd with Germany! :twisted:

Thanks Saschia and Rona,maybe DEFRA should get off their collective backsides and research the breed and not rely on ancient prejudices-Wolf'scary,scary' so that responsible,caring,understanding owners can,not only own,but educate,the British people and,by the sounds of it,the government bureaucracy about the breed.
By the way does anyone know if anybody from Australia is in the process of importing?

One of the Polish breeders has just been involved in making a documentary about her CzWs for one of the British TV companies. Lets hope the film and similar inititives will eventually open the eyes and minds of the British people. I wouldn't count much on DEFRA members :twisted: , but just on common TV viewers who love dogs, especially as beautiful and special as CzWs :D

Thanks for all your responses. I've not been able to read them all until now as i have been working hundreds of miles away from civilization (Wales! :wink: ) I knew it was too good to be true and vlcak had to mean wolfdog. Thanks especially to Mirka for your info on breed names, it seems that the name vlcak does not suggest they are any more related to a wolf than a ovcak is to a sheep! Thanks for having a go at a phonetic spelling. I think I've got it, or something close to it. Slarman's news about the five generations rule is very interesting indeed. Maybe it is something that UK government can follow. They are more likely to allow us the great privilege toown the dog we were meant for, if they can still enjoy putting lots of restrictions on them! And the more pointless, useless, but irrelevant and harmless rules we can offer the better. Dharkwolf, you mentioned thet FCI names are in several languages; in UK we often refer to a breed by its nationality then what I assume is its native name e.g. Hungarian Puli or Norweigian Buhund. It is extremely unusual to translate the second part into english. I was wondering if in official FCI names other breeds like the Hungarian Puli have been fully translated as well or wether they just went with the common UK name. I do worry about this Documentary. :frown: I think I'd love to see a bunch of film footage of CSVs but I know what UK TV is like. I know that to be sure to sell a film about CSVs you have to portray them as the Devil (and end any chance of legalisation) or as little Angels who can do no harm at all (and then, after legalisation, the rescues will fill up with untrained adolescent CSVs that people bought because they liked the romantic notion of living with a tame wolf.-What happened in US after 'Dances With Wolves'? People bought wolf crosses because thats what is available there! Do you know which TV company or which breeder is involved in this as I'd like to find out more about this before it is shown on telly. Bye, Rob.

Rob,
It will be interesting to see if one of Australia's gov't TV stations pick up the CSW film and I know that there will be a rush of Aussies wanting to import them here.According to the breeders I've been speaking to for the last 2 years ,many Aussies have enquired.After almost 3 years of studying everything about this breed thru this website,and reading up on wolves and wolf-hybrids in the USA,I hope that breeders in Europe don't sell these dogs to Aussies offering big money as I know the breed will be banned because pups will be sold for money not with any regard for the breeds future.
I am keen to import and am currently setting up a breeding/training plan that I hope will put the dogs in the right hands though I know no plan is full proof.I hope friends over there will help alert other breeders/owners,who can't speak or read English to be careful when dealing with Aussies who just want own a CSW because they're cute or they want to own a wolf-hybrid which this breed is not,as we all know.I made that mistake too,and after such a long time studying the breed still am only at the stage oflearning.
Regards,Simon

I wish you good luck with this, but I am affraid, it will not work. Unfortunatelly, there was, is and always will be enough of breeders, who really do not care, to where they sell their pups. :( And that both in the countries of origin, as well as in Western Europe, however, I think in the West it is in bigger scale. I´ve never seen so many CSWs to be "produced" for money, as since I moved to Brussels and started to look around and listen. As long as people will produce (since I do not call this breeding) CSWs for money, there will always be buyers. And opposite, of course.

Seems that to CSW, same thing is happening, like happened to labradors, golden retrievers, dalmatians .. they are getting popular, the number of people interested in them grows and thus, the number of producers of pups too. But the quality of the dogs, their character and look is going far from the original.

In France, there is already several kennels, who happily produce CSW pups without pedigree and they are proud of it. Do you think, these "breeders" do care, where their pups go? :frown:

For the last two years, I´ve met myself several people, who breed CSWs without caring to x-ray the parents, without paying any attention to choose the best crossing, without thinking about the future of the breed whatsoever. You can find dogs with dysplasia E/E, that are used in breeding. You can find dogs bonitated with result P14 (thus unbreedable) but happily used for producing puppies. You can find dogs resembling jackals, more than dogs or wolfdogs, but so what, it´s different type and we like it, says the breeder, and happily breeds! :evil:

Do you think, all these people care about the breed? I doubt it. As long as there will be people like this, pups will be produced and sold to anyone, who is willing to pay. Sad, but true.

Very, very sad :( I agree, one cannot X-ray people's brains to learn what they really intend when they buy a pup.

Another problem is ignorance. I personally know quite a few people, who are respectable and kind, who just cannot understand why anybody should buy pedigree dogs, with documents, known parents etc. They consider this to be snobish, racist and pretencious behaviour and condemn it, just like dog shows and herd books.

But to tell you the truth this IS a hard issue to explain, because on the one hand adopting/ buying a homeless pup or dog is a noble deed, but on the other - people should be encouraged to buy pedigree dogs from "safe" breeders.
For someone who doesn't know much about dogs, breeders (e.g. how to recognise a good, responsible breeder) all this is rather vague and hard to grasp. If the breeder is smart, he/she may easily bring the new or potantial owner round to all sort of strange ideas about dogs.

Not only with the Aussies, but with GSD at the time of Ritintin, with Golden Retriver, with Dobermanns due that film ("the Dobermanns gang "what simply he destroyed the breed in fame and quality), I find that the television is a curse for any dog breed.
The worse is that when occurs an attack where a dog of these without temperament attacks and kills a person, the breed is the guilty, it is the breed that is aggressive the breed has that to be extinguish.:evil:

The pedigree unhappyly is not quality assurance in one breed, pedigree is easy of being gotten, the majority of the kennels does not make control of the registered litters, not only in Brazil, but in other places of the world, it has many no-breed (or totaly no-standard) with register of a pure dog breed.

In the case of the CzW and any another breed that is not "popular" (similar at Borzois, ovtcharkas, Lundehund...) finishes have problems in the shows(expositions) judgment due to the unfamiliarity on the part of the judges in relation to the standard of the breed.

But without doubts, the biggest problem for any breed is the stupid owners, this is similar at one snow ball whit the "fame"! :evil:

sometimes I don't even want CSVs legalized in UK. Especially when I meet GSDs and other POTENTIALLY dangerous breeds ( I met a very scared Chihuahua cross recently that tried to bite me) that have been mis-educated by owners who know nothing of dog psychology and don't care anyway. People brought this Chihuahua cross to the animal rescue where I work and thought it funny that their "friend" (probably their dad ) had been sent to prison for hitting a person in the face with a broken beer glass. They said that their tiny lapdog was a hunting dog. Bullshit. The poor thing was aggressive only when a hand was put close to her and it was just so obvious that this dog had been beaten for years. Now it will be virtually impossible to rehome her and she may stay at the rescue long enough for the original owner/abuser to finish his prison sentence and send his friends round to adopt her. I hate people sometimes. I know that the dogs are incapable of hate so it just takes time to win their trust, and increase their confidence but every time they see a stranger it's back to the start.

I'm worried about the CSW coming 'Down Under',Rob for the same reason you worried in the UK.Unfortunately,with all the hysteria around re:Pit Bulls and Bull breeds in general why would anyone want to stir the pot by introducing a new unknown,untested breed like the CSW?!
Hence the reason I sound like a worry wart.Of course Australia has it's own native dog-the Dingo,for which you need a licence to own.I am pleased to say I know the owner of an extremely well trained Dingo who has spoken to me at length about the trials and tribulations of training a wild dog,and I know if I had time to tell all she told me 100% of CSW owners will empathise and sympathise with her!!
I guess the only way to resolve the situation is to admire this breed from afar at the moment.
Simon

You know, there is really a difference between wild dingo and a working dog breed, even if that breed is called Czechoslovakian wolfdog :mrgreen: Yes, training CSW might be more difficult, but certainly it is still just a dog. The trainability, character and behaviour of CSW depends from a big part on the skills of it´s breeder and owner. You can pass IPO with CSW. Can you with dingo? ;)

No you can't pass any titles with a Dingo because you can't trial them.They are not considered a dog breed but a native dog.
But you missed my point,being,that ,from what I've learnt from my friend and this website,is that both the Dingo and CSW,are harder to train than most other breeds,that both breeds respond to positive training techniques better than other methods,both are highly intelligent-street smart,if you like,rather than mechanical in response to problem-solving and both are highly pack oriented but also very self reliant.
You can teach a Dingo almost anything,as you can a wolfdog,but their real value is their friendship and loyalty.

Ok, I got your point. But I still think, that to compare a dog breed (CSW) with a wild dog (dingo) is a bit crazy :)

And a bit risky, because unfortunatelly, many people here in West Europe think the same, that CSW is "half-wolf" or "almost wolf" and thus you cannot do anything with it, or it is extremely difficult. And that is not true and such thinking only does the harm to the breed.
Many of these "wolves" as some people here consider CSW´s seldom make it behind the borders of their garden or kennel. Simply because their owners believe, that it is difficult to teach them walk on the leash (well they think it is difficult or impossible to teach them anything, anyways).

It is absolutely important to remind people all the time, that CSW is a dog breed, it is working breed and as such, if socialised and trained, can do virtualy anything. Yes, it might be harder to teach CSW to do things, than a GSD, but it depends really only on the master of the dog, what and how fast the dog will learn!

Sorry is it hard? How is it hard? You want a dog for a bit of company? No special job you need it for? You go and look in a rescue. If you want to cycle across Europe or Australia with your dog just for 'something to do' then reseach, and when you finish researching, reseach some more. COZ A DOG LIVES (could) 13 YEARS. So six months of looking for a breeder is not hard. Reading some library books on dog training, puppy care, dog breeding, dog genetics and dog domestication is not actually hard. And it's virtually free. OK it's hard if you cant read but to find a dog that is basically healthy is not difficult at all. Even at a rescue you get a choice. If you ask for a dog that is unlikely to have any special health problems they won't give you a roach-backed GSD.

I think that reply came up on the wrong page. Please disregard. it's totally not a reply to the previous comment

Wen I know Dingos were domestic dogs that had come back to be wild.
Dingo is not considered one dog breed, but for my see, he can't considered one native dog, being that it is not one realy native dog of the place. :roll:

Hello,
how is the situation in the uk now?
Is this breed forbidden? What about Iceland and Norway?
Anybody knows?

As far as I know has nothing changed also for iceland and Norway.

Greetings,

Letty

Maybe someone should try to make a big big complaint ?:D

hi as everone has told you friend this bred is called the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and they are in the u.k and they are here to stay your local council need educated on this breed and several councils have now accepted the breed because they have been invited to see the dogs, at present there are over 20 csvs in uk not one has a lience and they never will, my dogs travel freely in uk as do all the rest, please let me know which councils have restrictions on the Csvs? my two 7mths old pups where at a council run fete only last week i had no problems at all,,, regards paul winder kent uk

Czechoslovakian Shepherds ?
 

Hello everyone,
Sorry this is a little off topic :oops: but it follows on from Pauls reply and my question is to Paul and Mandy in the UK.
With your approval I would like to purchase a pup from yourselves in the not to distant future (hopefully) and was wondering if I need to get permission from my local council, (I am in the Manchester area) to own a czw? If so is there likely to be a certain department within the council that I should get in touch with and how do I approach the subject, do I just ask for permission to own a csw or ask which dogs need a license?
I would also like to know about the UK czw club which you run, can anybody join?
Look forward to your reply, thank you. J.P.

The Norwegian situation is unchanged - I did'nt know there was any resctrictions of owning a CSV in Iceland except for the general ban on dogs in their capital city. Any information is apreciated.
--
Per Olav

Hello,
thanks for the info!
I tought it wasn t possible to bring CW in iceland because it is considered a "mix wolf" dog...i could be wrong...do you know anyone that has CW in iceland?
If the problem is restricted to Reykjavik then it isn t a so big problem as I tought... a part the 4 weeks isolation for the importation of pets....
Any futher infos are more than appreciated!:p

By "googling" I can't find any law prohibiting csvs in Iceland - but on the other hand my knowledege of icelandic is quite limited...;)

The infos about that should be in english anyway...
Anybody knows anybody up there? Just to have sure infos...:?
Thanks anyway...

This was the reply I received sometime ago when asking a local council near where I live. :( So it looks as though although some councils are wiser this one isn't.

I'm not sure if it is the actual council my area is govened by but it is one in the same region.

Quote:

Dear Sir or Madam Thank you for your enquiry. I would advise that due to the wolf ancestry of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog I would expect anyone owing such an animal to also possess a Dangerous Wild Animals Act Licence. I also understand that it was once a registered a breed with the Kennel Club, but is has now been deregistered due to the Dangerous Wild Animals Act. The DWA Act is fairly explicit and the guidance is fairly clear. However, you will always find that some local authorities may interpret the guidance in slightly different ways, and you may find that some of the responses differ slightly. The following document may also be of use/interest. Please click on the link: http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/gwd/wolfdogs/wolfdogs.pdf I hope this information is of use.

Hello Myschievous,
Thank you for your reply. Can I ask do you live in the same area as me or which council you asked?
What I can't understand though is how can the uk kennel club register dogs then change their minds, how closely do they work with defra? Do defra do checks on what dogs are being registered or has somebody got in touch with defra and told them about the czw's.
If the kennel club were not sure of the rules then surely they should have waited to find out before giving Paul registration papers and building his hopes thinking everything was going to be alright.

Hi :)

I asked a council in Suffolk which was what I thought was one our town came under - it turns out it isn't our exact council but one close by - I've a feeling the council our town does belong to will have the same answer (I have emailed them this week by the way and I'm awaiting thier response)

Let us know of any answers your council give you when you ask :)

You guys (in Australia) need Pits to hunt down all of those wild pigs destroying the place... Those things are becoming a problem here too...

do you know what this program is called and when it will be shown