Offspring´s
 

I just wonder if there are any recommended maximum number of offspring’s ???

When looking at the planned litters, I noticed that the same dogs shows up on almost every pedigree, whit in the first 4 generation !!! For example Omar z Krotkovského dvora CS whit his 95 offspring’s…

I must say I am no expert on genetic, but to me it looks like some breeders are creating a very narrow genepool, fore future generation of breeders to use.

Personally I think 20-25 offspring’s sounds like a good and healthy number of offspring’s, and maximum 30-35.

And I ask my self if breeders that take over 50 offspring’s really are interested of breeding, or if it is just about the money ???

Sad regards / Mikael

this is great post excellent topic for discussion Mikael hope it gets the response it deserves i aslo check the data base regulary its surprising what you see on it ,,,,regards pacino

The CsV breed´s death list ?
 

Numbers of offsprings 10 topplist on CsV born after year 2000. :shock:

47 offsprings 2002.12.31 Baron spod Ïumbiera
48 offsprings 2001.12.03 Batt Malý Bysterec
54 offsprings 2004.01.31 Merlin Crying Wolf
51 offsprings 2000.10.06 Rendy ---Passo del Lupo---
55 offsprings 2001.12.04 Edgar Passo del Lupo
60 offsprings 2004.11.11 Vaicko Passo del Lupo
73 offsprings 2003.04.18 Timber Wolf Arimminum
82 offsprings 2002.10.15 Duncan ---Colle del Lupo---
135 offsprings 2001.04.12 Cutt ---dell'Irco Sortiere---
151 offsprings 2002.10.03 Miky Passo del Lupo

Very sad regards / Mikael

and who You see problem. I like breeder see problemin this offspring- to small % be dogs to breed.
and when good dogs have big offspring is good, moore problem make this same litter with this same dog x bitch.

And who is make breed linie? cann me say who this make?

yes please tell us for it is only way to bring things into open, the breed can not continue in such a way, and breeding same dog with same bitch more times is not in interest of breed but could be for profit only, i say what i think, its better up front than hide things you really want to say, i am very out spoken and rude at times but then i get people to say what they really want to say by doing it, i am nearly finnished with setting up for CWS in uk. 1 we start by registering what pure dogs we have, all dogs health tested, when we breed the pups are registered by breeder, when pedigree is sent to new owner it has clause on it called breeding restriction, this restriction can not be lifted untill dog has past health tests,, if dog fails now pups can ever be registered from this dog, breeder will refund half money for dog and owner if wants to can keep the dog,, before any dog can be bred from it will go in front of pannel of club members the dog will be judged as for breed standard, we have to set up things for this, and decide what what faults are serious to stop dog from being bred from, again the breeder will pay half of money back if dog is not suitable to breed from and may keep dog, we have decided already to set up character test as this for the breed is very important. so we do our bit in uk. to help preserve the breed and make healthy dogs, if you dont want to share name send it to me and i will ask them online pacino

CsV breed in need !!!
 

Yes I agree there are more to this then just the number of offspring’s !!!

But when you breed this much on one specific individual it will be hard to find unrelated breeding partners in the future…
As my example whit Omar z Krotkovského dvora CS already shows...

It does not matter if the dog is healthy or not, it is an unhealthy breedplan !!!

I also have become informed of this…

If we do not do anything about this now it will be to late, the CsV breed will be a unhealthy and inbreed dog breed !!!

Apperantley the UK understands this already :o how about you and your contry ???

Regards / Mikael

You cann breed in 2 ways:
one is planed linie breeding. in this way stay all breeds and best dogs
and breed 2 dogs who you have and not see in pedigree- this be not breeding but only sexturistik. and in this case maybe you have good dogs, maybe not, and not make breed breder only puppies make.

I think You understand who is me way, and who have others breed way.

Well, I don't see such a big trouble in this. Let's say that I like a dog who is not alive allready, so I am looking for his son or grandson for mating with my female. Believe me, even if he had about 10 litters, it is so hard to find one... Some are not bonitated or without HD, or I do not like the other bloods that this dog has or the way it looks... A good stud has to be used with various bitches :roll: So that he could pass his goodness to the future generations.

Yes, but I do not talk about you, or your breeding, you have a breedplan,
I talk about breeders that do over 50 offsprings on some of there dogs !!!
and that is not healthy for the breed !!!

I think you know what I mean :rock_3

Regads / Mikael

You do not se a problem whit inbreeding and inbreeding desiases :shock:
And litters whit a COI on 25% or more on 5 generations :shock:

I am :o but glad that you se HD as a problem...

Regards / Mikael

J. Gubbels - GENETIC MANAGEMENT OF DOG BREED POPULATIONS (2002) : http://www.gencouns.nl/artikelen/200...Management.pdf

Chapters 4 - 5 - 6.

You are playing words now. I just say, that not all the puppies of same stud are used in breeding, so it is good if a good stud has a lot of children. Inbreeding is for professionals, there is no need for you or me to use it in breeding.

In this page: http://www.canine-genetics.com/Genetics.htm

You will find again study case of over stud dog use ("The Price of Popularity"), but other articles that breeders should all read.

Read Elf´s link and get back to me about the proffessional part :rock_3

I think the problem might be that future breeders will have no choice,
if the population of CsV are totaly inbreed already when they start :|

Regards / Mikael

Calm down Mikael, I thought you Swedes have more sort of an iceberg character ;-).
Anyway, the mentioned above about the UK is not correct.
The whole breeding so far is based on one bitch (Lynx Legend).
WOLFZONE-Kennel even does a repeating of the first litter (Titan X Princesse).
The other litters from PACINO-Kennel are from Princesse's full sister and her mother Lynx Legend.

Regards,
Michael

Do not worry I´m cool... 8)

But it did sounds good on paper, the UK plans :)

Regards / Mikael

Would be nice if this post goes to: "what are the breeding rules, a (new?) breeder, should follow -regarding the situation from now 2008- in the CsV breed ?

About stud dog max offsprings ?
About repeating mating ? Yes, no, how many max times, under which conditions ?
HD pedigree rules ?
COI, should be less than X% ? Or more allowed if condition Y ...

...

What are the thoughts of the (old ?) wise around here ?

Please, don't tell me what to do and I will not tell you where to go.

Somehow it doesn't seem to be SUCH a problem in our breed :roll: Not that hard to find a stud, which is not closely related with your female.

Sorry, I did mean...

PLEASE, Read Elf´s link and get back to me about the proffessional part :rock_3

And maby then you will se this all as a problem ???

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael, in who ways you breed in future- I think You have problem- all dogs have this same blood.

I read and who? normal articul, I have others but not in english and in hes dr.vet or genetic say others info.
and who say true in this case?

I have a darker view. It's currently not easy to mate two CsV and get a COI less than 20% on the full pedigree (and I guess nearly impossible less than 15%). Nowadays example, last 5 mating announced on this site: 18.53%, 23.72%, 30.89%, 20.78%, 27.10%. These numbers carry meaning.

Which publications/scientists and which other info ? Interested...

please cann thake link to this mate? thanks.

I did not go complicated :), just took the last five announced on the site:

http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/956.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/953.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/951.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/942.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/940.html

this be in russish lanquage and You not wright this :)
and all normal genetic books wright this same.

wright me please in who is bad this pedigree?
not % but dogs name and who is this bad

Firt of all this is not a topic about my kennel :rock_3

But if I have good dogs to breed in the future, I will breed...

* As unrelated dogs as possible.
* On good health, as far as I know and can test.
* On as good HD results as possible, but only A and B.
* On as good Bonitation results as possible.
* On good working results.

Hronec Taabernakkelin have a Wright´s Coefficient of inbreeding on 6,1% on 5 generation, therefore I´m not the one whit a big problem here...

But thanks for ansking and careing about me :)

regards / Mikael

Nothing bad.
Just to show that's not easy to mate dogs and get a COI less than 20% nowadays, this is an indicator for the breed.

Mikael who dogs make couple for You dogs? all dogs who be near your country be familie.
Elf, who You say this I-III, II-III, II-IV, III-III, III-IV, IV-IV, V-V.
this litter who You thake - for me is very interesant and I check who grown puppie and be very glad for this breeders variants.

hmmm I am crazy too.

я отлично читаю на русском ;)

no izvini- niemogu etovo dat :) secret info from ones russian kennel.

Yes there you se the problem :lol:

I will have to import two female that is as far unrelated as possible :rock_3
And start to pray for good results :lol:

But I think Polen and Germany is fairly close to Sweden 8)

Regards / Mikael

but who linie You wish breed? or make total outcross? have breed plan now who dogs wish ussed?

Vsyo u vas tam zasecrecheno, hot i SSSR davno ne suchshestvuet :) Mozhet byt, v drugoi raz ...

sorry I live in Lithua not Russia and pasport have lithua, and please no name me like russian people, but material have in russish, polish, czech, slovakian lanquaqe.

Would be glad you make me a sum up of the material you have when you have time.

Repeating matings is different to use a stud.
Omar z krotkovskeho dvora was used in a different data in pretty different conditions for the breed.
I don't agree with his use in this way, I don't agree with the fact that people had use so much some studs as Rep Z pohranicni Straze and Omar z Krotovskeho dvora, when at the same time some dogs with different bloodlines get lost in the time because hole litter of lonely mate die without get used in the breed.
But things change and now we have more dogs than at past, more females and more breeders, surelly the number of the litters per dog, principally a famous one will increase, if we compare with the past it will seems even stupid and bad for the breed.
In this topic we are mixing somethings as if it is equal, its a wrong think.
One thing is repeat ever the same litter, it surelly decrease the genetic pool of the breed as the clone litter have no value for breeding, another thing is you use a stud with you know have good bloodline and pass good characteristics one time or with different females and don't repeat again these litters, you do it knowing and waiting good genetic, another thing is you blindly use a male because shows or working titles.

I really don't see problems in dogs like Carr Maly Bysterec or Baron Spod Dumbiera and others like that, wich have made some different litter with some different females in different countries, theyr blood is speeled over world, not all dogs from these mates are used in breeding, some pet dogs and maybe one or two dogs of these litters will get used at breeding, these dogs we all know pass some good qualitys for its offsprings, turning better the quality helping with the breed evolution as well.
The females mated with this dog probably won't repeat ever the same litter with him, even because he is from different owner and sometimes not soo much well common, and well... the owners study the line for make this litter and commonly they find another so interessant dog for mate in next litter, so you will be able to see the blood of this female with some different males, if you want you will use the blood of this female with the blood of this well common dog or not.
No wonder if in about 5 years we have some linebreedings on these dogs with the will to increase a little bit the amount of blood of these dogs in the specific litter, that's happen and is common in all breed.

At other side we have the hiper show well-know titled dogs, wich everyones uses it sometimes blindly because the titles that will help then to sell the litter, not only have him as father but make huge inbreedig and line breeding in this dog, another times without any knowledge about its genetic they make litters with the think that: "if this dog is good and titled, he will makes good litters", and, when you have a hyper used dog, neophites will see only good dogs winning at shows or at the magazines, and will think "this dog is good" without have knowledge that of these 2 good dogs, this same stud made about 50 bad ones wich are almost hiding with owners as Pet, and maybe will appear one good soul wich will study the pedigree of this dog, his offsprings and will see if this dog will be good or bad if mate with his female.

And so, we have here the good character of the stud owner, you as owner will let your dog be used in repeated mates? with females with bad bloodline for him? or let him make inbreeding using him with his daughter?
here enter the good sense and the money question, if someones only care for money, he will let his stud be used for who paid, if the owner have alittle bit og good sense, he will think twice before do that.
This concience will avoid the problems that we can see at south america with dobermann breeding, almost all dobermanns have one dog in line or inbreeding, barely you find dogs that's at least far away of this dog, that's happen becahse this dog was good and the owner surelly don't care much or don't had think about the future of the breed, and let this dog be over used by other breeders, the dog is good, pass good genetic and is pretty know and well titled. For you people had idea about the think of th eowner, the dog is death at more than 5 years and still make litters as father... tecnology rules. :p

This is still not a topic of my breeding plans or kennel...

However I still are investigating, but when I know, I can tell you in your e-mailbox if you wont to know :rock_3

Regards / Mikael

Good idea Elf !!! 8)

Regards / Mikael

Sorry, wrong topic :rock_3

Regards / Mikael

Thanks for the book Nebulosa :lol:

Well balanced answer as always !

Best regards / Mikael

Horrible numbers !!!
 

Thanks for this info, it is horrible numbers, but I´m not suprised :(

Regards / Mikael

Back to topic
 

What kind of inbreeding diseases will show up first,
Are there any common signs to look for ???

What is normaly a healthy % of COI ???

How hard will it be to get the COI back to 15% from 20-30% on a total pedigree ???

Regards / Mikael

Depends... because first it's needed to breed away for harmful alleles, only then one can breed for diversity. On the other side it has been proved many times higher inbreeded dogs lived some years less than lower inbreeded dogs (same for genetic diseases incidence).
Nowadays for the CsV, breeders should try to be less than 10% on five generations (as this is the mean value on 5 generations).

Thanks ones again for your answers elf :)

To get the COI % back to normal on some lines whit the breeding plan of some breeders here are therefore impossible as I se it, especially when some breeders work in the opposite direction :(

I also wonder way the owners of this dogs do not wont to give there opinion on the current situation...
Or are they so :shock: over the high % of COI on are breed that they can not speak...

Regards / Mikael

Wrong topic again !!!
 

Can you please put this post in the Crosses in the UK thread instead :(

Regards / Mikael

A little stat, dogs with COI(5 generations) more than 30% (sorted by birthday: breeding plans many years ago are not the same):

2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Uros ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Llobas-Ghisa ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Hiroshi II ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Hiroshi ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Yado ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Tundra ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Sca ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Priscilla ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Pepe ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Thor Crying Wolf
2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Therpsis Crying Wolf
2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Thalia Crying Wolf
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Pavel ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Naise ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Lupo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Lupa ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Kyra ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Duncan ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Sultan ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Ayak ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Attila ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Akail ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2004.09.28 -- 30.5175781250% -- Nicea ---Ciccone---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Zeus ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Tularosa ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Luna ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Geronimo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Daphne ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Blu ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Aria ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Anubis ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.04.17 -- 30.9570312500% -- Vaillant ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2004.04.17 -- 30.9570312500% -- Bilou ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hutch ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Huri ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hura ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Horus ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hendrix ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Heda ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Heca ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hasso ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hanouk ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hamlet ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Haita ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hagen ---Colle del Lupo---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- Manja ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Lupo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Kochis ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Jahanna ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hug ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Geronimo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Farak ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Angelina ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Rex z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Repka z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Rep z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Rama z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Raggio ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Nebbia ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Kocis ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Gandalf ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Ermanno ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Ares ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Andromeda ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2001.01.19 -- 32.7636718750% -- Mikala ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2001.01.19 -- 32.7636718750% -- Manon ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Puma z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Primus z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Prim z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Priam z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Pedro z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Pax z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Panda z Krotkovského dvora
2000.12.17 -- 31.6406250000% -- Pama z Krotkovského dvora
2000.01.25 -- 30.8105468750% -- Fibby Kollárov dvor
2000.01.25 -- 30.8105468750% -- Fenndy Kollárov dvor
2000.01.25 -- 30.8105468750% -- Farry Kollárov dvor
2000.01.25 -- 30.8105468750% -- Fanny Kollárov dvor
2000.01.25 -- 30.8105468750% -- Fallko Kollárov dvor
2000.01.16 -- 30.8105468750% -- Aragon Vlčia krv
1999.02.05 -- 33.0566406250% -- Eryx Kollárov dvor
1999.02.05 -- 33.0566406250% -- Elax Kollárov dvor
1999.02.05 -- 33.0566406250% -- Ejda Kollárov dvor
1999.02.05 -- 33.0566406250% -- Edy Kollárov dvor
1999.01.16 -- 32.1777343750% -- Bora od Miščicha
1999.01.16 -- 32.1777343750% -- Bona od Miščicha
1999.01.16 -- 32.1777343750% -- Bat od Miščicha
1999.01.10 -- 30.8105468750% -- Cézar Kollárov dvor
1999.01.10 -- 30.8105468750% -- Cliff Kollárov dvor
1999.01.10 -- 30.8105468750% -- Citka Kollárov dvor
1999.01.10 -- 30.8105468750% -- Cindy Kollárov dvor
1999.01.10 -- 30.8105468750% -- Cid Kollárov dvor
1999.01.10 -- 30.8105468750% -- Car Kollárov dvor
1998.10.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Moňa z Krotkovského dvora CS
1998.10.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Maxa z Krotkovského dvora CS
1998.10.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Max z Krotkovského dvora
1998.02.05 -- 32.4707031250% -- Flip z Rofa
1998.02.05 -- 32.4707031250% -- Faxon z Rofa
1998.02.05 -- 32.4707031250% -- Faraon z Rofa
1998.01.18 -- 39.2089843750% -- Lord z Krotkovského dvora CS
1997.11.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Kórach z Krotkovského dvora
1997.11.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Káj z Krotkovského dvora
1997.11.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Koro z Krotkovského dvora
1997.11.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Kondor z Krotkovského dvora
1997.11.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Kazan z Krotkovského dvora
1997.11.12 -- 31.6406250000% -- Kain z Krotkovského dvora
1997.04.01 -- 33.9355468750% -- Eryk z Ciriakovho dvora
1997.04.01 -- 33.9355468750% -- Eri z Ciriakovho dvora
1997.04.01 -- 33.9355468750% -- Emi z Ciriakovho dvora
1997.04.01 -- 33.9355468750% -- Elba z Ciriakovho dvora
1997.02.04 -- 32.4707031250% -- Brit Šikulov dvor
1996.01.31 -- 34.0820312500% -- Chira z Krotkovského dvora
1996.01.31 -- 34.0820312500% -- Chir z Krotkovského dvora
1995.12.15 -- 33.9355468750% -- Cézar z Ciriakovho dvora
1995.12.15 -- 33.9355468750% -- Cárka z Ciriakovho dvora
1995.12.15 -- 33.9355468750% -- Cuky z Ciriakovho dvora
1995.12.15 -- 33.9355468750% -- Ciro z Ciriakovho dvora
1995.12.15 -- 33.9355468750% -- Cida z Ciriakovho dvora
1995.12.15 -- 33.9355468750% -- Car z Ciriakovho dvora
1995.10.28 -- 31.6406250000% -- Hyke z Krotkovského dvora CS
1995.10.28 -- 31.6406250000% -- Hura z Krotkovského dvora CS
1995.10.28 -- 31.6406250000% -- Hesi z Krotkovského dvora CS
1995.10.28 -- 31.6406250000% -- Hera z Krotkovského dvora CS
1995.10.28 -- 31.6406250000% -- Hedy z Krotkovského dvora CS
1995.10.28 -- 31.6406250000% -- Halka z Krotkovského dvora CS
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Gurta z Krotkovského dvora
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Grečko z Krotkovského dvora
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Goro z Krotkovského dvora
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Gogo z Krotkovského dvora
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Gaston z Krotkovského dvora
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Gar z Krotkovského dvora
1995.08.10 -- 32.1777343750% -- Galka z Krotkovského dvora
1994.12.10 -- 41.6992187500% -- Europa z Krotkovského dvora
1994.12.10 -- 41.6992187500% -- Esta z Krotkovského dvora
1994.12.10 -- 41.6992187500% -- Emír z Krotkovského dvora
1994.12.10 -- 41.6992187500% -- Elbow z Krotkovského dvora
1994.11.25 -- 31.6406250000% -- Cézar z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.25 -- 31.6406250000% -- Cirus z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.25 -- 31.6406250000% -- Cidar z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.25 -- 31.6406250000% -- Cida z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.19 -- 31.6406250000% -- Bux z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.19 -- 31.6406250000% -- Bugo z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.19 -- 31.6406250000% -- Bryta z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.19 -- 31.6406250000% -- Bryt z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.19 -- 31.6406250000% -- Bruna z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.19 -- 31.6406250000% -- Bega z Krotkovského dvora CS
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Asta z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Ares z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Amor z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Amanda z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Aktis z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Aima z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Ado z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.11.11 -- 33.9355468750% -- Abba z Ciriakovho dvora
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Hike Južná čast'
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Hik Južná čast'
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Hero Južná čast'
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Hektor Južná čast'
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Haso Južná čast'
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Hari Južná čast'
1994.10.13 -- 34.0820312500% -- Haide Južná čast'
1994.02.04 -- 32.1777343750% -- Zora z Krotkovského dvora
1994.02.04 -- 32.1777343750% -- Zola z Krotkovského dvora
1994.02.04 -- 32.1777343750% -- Zina z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Yzop z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Yrda z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Yra z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Ykon z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Yka z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Ydar z Krotkovského dvora
1994.01.17 -- 34.2285156250% -- Yda z Krotkovského dvora
1993.12.10 -- 32.3242187500% -- Bryta z Gilanovho dvora
1993.12.10 -- 32.3242187500% -- Bryt z Gilanovho dvora
1993.12.10 -- 32.3242187500% -- Bruna z Gilanovho dvora
1993.12.10 -- 32.3242187500% -- Begi z Gilanovho dvora
1993.12.10 -- 32.3242187500% -- Bajkal z Gilanovho dvora
1993.12.10 -- 32.3242187500% -- Bajka z Gilanovho dvora
1993.11.29 -- 46.8750000000% -- Xavan z Rosíkova
1993.11.26 -- 38.8183593750% -- Vlk z Krotkovského dvora
1993.06.09 -- 32.4218750000% -- Tola z Krotkovského dvora
1993.06.09 -- 32.4218750000% -- Tobi z Krotkovského dvora
1993.01.21 -- 32.1777343750% -- Samson z Krotkovského dvora
1993.01.21 -- 32.1777343750% -- Sam z Krotkovského dvora
1992.10.18 -- 31.1523437500% -- Astor Fončorda
1992.10.18 -- 31.1523437500% -- Argo Fončorda
1992.10.18 -- 31.1523437500% -- Alfa Fončorda
1992.10.18 -- 31.1523437500% -- Alan Fončorda
1992.10.18 -- 31.1523437500% -- Ajax Fončorda
1991.12.04 -- 30.3222656250% -- Antea Bonus
1991.12.04 -- 30.3222656250% -- Amir Bonus
1991.12.04 -- 30.3222656250% -- Algar Bonus
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Avar z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Arza z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Art z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Area z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Ama z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Alma z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Alba z Kykule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.22 -- 32.3242187500% -- Achát z Kyvule pod Lepeníkom
1991.11.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Nyx z Krotkovského dvora
1991.11.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Nyr z Krotkovského dvora
1991.11.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Nyk z Krotkovského dvora
1991.11.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Nora z Krotkovského dvora
1991.11.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Nor z Krotkovského dvora
1991.11.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Nero z Krotkovského dvora
1991.10.03 -- 30.5175781250% -- Asy od Zejdy CS
1991.10.03 -- 30.5175781250% -- Ala od Zejdy CS
1991.10.03 -- 30.5175781250% -- Akita od Zejdy CS
1991.10.03 -- 30.5175781250% -- Aja od Zejdy CS
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chán z Krotkovského dvora
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chlipka z Krotkovského dvora
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chlapík z Krotkovského dvora
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chira z Krotkovského dvora
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chir z Krotkovského dvora
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chim z Krotkovského dvora
1990.12.04 -- 32.3242187500% -- Chama z Krotkovského dvora
1990.11.28 -- 32.3242187500% -- Aran z Gilanovho dvora
1990.11.28 -- 32.3242187500% -- Andy z Gilanovho dvora
1990.11.28 -- 32.3242187500% -- Alma z Gilanovho dvora
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Grácia Balmar
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Grof Balmar
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Goro Balmar
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Gina Balmar
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Gera Balmar
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Gapa Balmar
1990.11.05 -- 35.4980468750% -- Gaja Balmar
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Brian Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Bresta Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Brehmy Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Borka Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Bonita Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Bern Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Berenica Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Barča Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Baron Trenčan
1990.10.17 -- 31.5429687500% -- Barilla Trenčan
1988.12.29 -- 35.5468750000% -- Dono od Pavlišina CS
1988.12.29 -- 35.5468750000% -- Dino od Pavlišina CS
1988.03.16 -- 36.4257812500% -- Osa z Rosíkova CS
1988.03.16 -- 36.4257812500% -- Orlík z Rosíkova CS
1988.03.16 -- 36.4257812500% -- Olmar z Rosíkova CS
1988.03.16 -- 36.4257812500% -- Old z Rosíkova CS
1988.01.08 -- 35.5468750000% -- Cézar od Pavlišina CS
1988.01.08 -- 35.5468750000% -- Cira od Pavlišina CS
1988.01.08 -- 35.5468750000% -- Cida od Pavlišina CS
1988.01.08 -- 35.5468750000% -- Ciba od Pavlišina CS
1988.01.08 -- 35.5468750000% -- Ceno od Pavlišina CS
1987.01.12 -- 31.8359375000% -- Káj z Rosíkova CS
1987.01.12 -- 31.8359375000% -- Kora z Rosíkova CS
1987.01.12 -- 31.8359375000% -- Kazan z Rosíkova CS
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Bron Vopa
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Brix Vopa
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Brita Vopa
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Brit Vopa
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Brat Vopa
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Besy Vopa
1986.03.29 -- 36.4257812500% -- Bero Vopa
1983.12.01 -- 32.4218750000% -- Arnika z Graby CS
1983.12.01 -- 32.4218750000% -- Argus z Graby CS
1983.12.01 -- 32.4218750000% -- Ares z Graby CS
1983.12.01 -- 32.4218750000% -- Apis z Graby CS
1983.12.01 -- 32.4218750000% -- Almea z Graby CS
1983.12.01 -- 32.4218750000% -- Alba z Graby CS

Over 30 % on 5 generations !!!
 

This comes as a shock even to me, 30-50% :shock::shock::shock: on 5 generation !!!

This is really the death list of are breed, if we do not react now it will be to late :evil:

Sad regards / Mikael

Dogs with COI(5 generations) more than 20% since 2002 (sorted by birthday):

2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yvain Crying Wolf
2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yolka Crying Wolf
2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yasmine Crying Wolf
2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf
2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yanus Crying Wolf
2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yam Crying Wolf
2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yago Crying Wolf
2007.09.27 -- 21.0449218750% -- Zjev Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2007.04.16 -- 28.2714843750% -- Jody ---Terre dell'Est---
2007.04.16 -- 28.2714843750% -- Cindy ---Terre dell'Est---
2007.04.16 -- 28.2714843750% -- Alex ---Terre dell'Est---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Uros ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Llobas-Ghisa ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Hiroshi II ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.10.27 -- 41.4062500000% -- Hiroshi ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2006.04.10 -- 21.0449218750% -- Quin Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2006.04.10 -- 21.0449218750% -- Quiero Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2006.04.10 -- 21.0449218750% -- Querida Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2006.04.10 -- 21.0449218750% -- Quemada Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2006.04.10 -- 21.0449218750% -- Quasar Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Yado ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Tundra ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Sca ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Priscilla ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.03.27 -- 32.2753906250% -- Pepe ---(priv. Orpelli)---
2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Thor Crying Wolf
2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Therpsis Crying Wolf
2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Thalia Crying Wolf
2006.02.05 -- 23.2910156250% -- Havanna Hanouk de Louba Tar
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Rudy ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Roli ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Roky ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Red ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Razy ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Randy ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Drama ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.12.08 -- 20.1171875000% -- Dita ---Casa della Rosa---
2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Ré Crying Wolf
2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Rubin Crying Wolf
2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Robin Hood Crying Wolf
2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Rambo Crying Wolf
2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Rainbow Crying Wolf
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Pavel ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Naise ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Lupo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Lupa ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Kyra ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.05.27 -- 30.0781250000% -- Duncan ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Sultan ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Ayak ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Attila ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.04.16 -- 30.9570312500% -- Akail ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2005.02.17 -- 28.2226562500% -- Kris Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2005.02.17 -- 28.2226562500% -- Kiss Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2005.02.17 -- 28.2226562500% -- Kent Cosmo Daniel D'Elite
2005.02.01 -- 26.7578125000% -- Fersen ---(priv. Rognoni)---
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Psisan Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phyrhus Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Philemon Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phenelope Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phemba Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Pharis Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phanom Crying Wolf
2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phaedra Crying Wolf
2004.10.26 -- 21.7773437500% -- Ossa Crying Wolf
2004.10.26 -- 21.7773437500% -- Orpheus Crying Wolf
2004.10.22 -- 21.4843750000% -- Hugo Fončorda
2004.10.22 -- 21.4843750000% -- Hok Fončorda
2004.09.28 -- 30.5175781250% -- Nicea ---Ciccone---
2004.09.24 -- 20.2636718750% -- V'Yanna Vopa von den Wächter der Krone
2004.09.24 -- 20.2636718750% -- V'Wotan von den Wächter der Krone
2004.09.24 -- 20.2636718750% -- V'Cheyenne von den Wächter der Krone
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Zeus ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Tularosa ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Luna ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Geronimo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Daphne ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Blu ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Aria ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.09.20 -- 30.0781250000% -- Anubis ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2004.04.17 -- 30.9570312500% -- Vaillant ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2004.04.17 -- 30.9570312500% -- Bilou ---des Gardiens de la Cour---
2004.02.19 -- 20.5566406250% -- Xenos Xerxes de Louba Tar
2004.02.19 -- 20.5566406250% -- Xenator Arni de Louba Tar
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Uxia ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Ussaro ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Ursula ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Uri ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Unno ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Unicum ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Ulisse ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Ublaze ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.16 -- 28.4179687500% -- Uber ---della Vittoria Alata---
2003.12.06 -- 28.1250000000% -- Dia Šikulov dvor
2003.12.06 -- 28.1250000000% -- Dag Šikulov dvor
2003.12.01 -- 20.2636718750% -- Ulfie von den Wächter der Krone
2003.12.01 -- 20.2636718750% -- Ujhiro von den Wächter der Krone
2003.12.01 -- 20.2636718750% -- Uinseann von den Wächter der Krone
2003.12.01 -- 20.2636718750% -- U? von den Wächter der Krone
2003.12.01 -- 20.2636718750% -- U'zeeva von den Wächter der Krone
2003.12.01 -- 20.2636718750% -- U'Wolfgang Amadeus von den Wächter der Krone
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hutch ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Huri ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hura ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Horus ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hendrix ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Heda ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Heca ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hasso ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hanouk ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hamlet ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Haita ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.07.10 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hagen ---Colle del Lupo---
2003.02.09 -- 21.4843750000% -- Gádar Fončorda
2003.02.09 -- 21.4843750000% -- Gaston Fončorda
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Koira Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kazan Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kavik Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kavak Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Karuk Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Karlik Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kankin Crying Wolf
2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kajab Crying Wolf
2002.12.31 -- 21.5332031250% -- Brest spod Ďumbiera
2002.12.31 -- 21.5332031250% -- Beryl spod Ďumbiera
2002.12.31 -- 21.5332031250% -- Baron spod Ďumbiera
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- Manja ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.12.05 -- 32.7636718750% -- ? ---Wollenberg Wolfdogs---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Lupo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Kochis ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Jahanna ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Hug ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Geronimo ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Farak ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.11.05 -- 30.0781250000% -- Angelina ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.03.10 -- 21.1914062500% -- Tilouna Windswept Hillock's
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Frida Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Fortuna Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Forrest Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Flash Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Faust Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Fargo Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Fanny Crying Wolf
2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Falco Crying Wolf
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Rex z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Repka z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Rep z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.11 -- 49.2187500000% -- Rama z Krotkovského dvora
2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Enzo Crying Wolf
2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Elvis Crying Wolf
2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Elton Crying Wolf
2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Elmar Crying Wolf
2002.01.07 -- 21.4355468750% -- Grace Kollárov dvor
2002.01.07 -- 21.4355468750% -- Gora Kollárov dvor
2002.01.07 -- 21.4355468750% -- Gina Kollárov dvor
2002.01.07 -- 21.4355468750% -- Gero Kollárov dvor
2002.01.07 -- 21.4355468750% -- Gaya Kollárov dvor
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Raggio ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Nebbia ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Kocis ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Gandalf ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Ermanno ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Ares ---(priv. Bresciani)---
2002.01.04 -- 30.0781250000% -- Andromeda ---(priv. Bresciani)---

Shocking news !!!
 

CsV world record in inbreeding ???

Quote:

Dogs with COI(5 generations) more than 20% since 2002 (sorted by birthday): 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yvain Crying Wolf 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yolka Crying Wolf 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yasmine Crying Wolf 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yanus Crying Wolf 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yam Crying Wolf 2007.10.12 -- 20.5078125000% -- Yago Crying Wolf 2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Thor Crying Wolf 2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Therpsis Crying Wolf 2006.02.24 -- 35.4492187500% -- Thalia Crying Wolf 2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Ré Crying Wolf 2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Rubin Crying Wolf 2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Robin Hood Crying Wolf 2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Rambo Crying Wolf 2005.07.22 -- 22.1191406250% -- Rainbow Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Psisan Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phyrhus Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Philemon Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phenelope Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phemba Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Pharis Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phanom Crying Wolf 2004.12.08 -- 22.2656250000% -- Phaedra Crying Wolf 2004.10.26 -- 21.7773437500% -- Ossa Crying Wolf 2004.10.26 -- 21.7773437500% -- Orpheus Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Koira Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kazan Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kavik Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kavak Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Karuk Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Karlik Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kankin Crying Wolf 2003.01.06 -- 21.7773437500% -- Kajab Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Frida Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Fortuna Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Forrest Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Flash Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Faust Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Fargo Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Fanny Crying Wolf 2002.01.13 -- 22.9980468750% -- Falco Crying Wolf 2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Enzo Crying Wolf 2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Elvis Crying Wolf 2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Elton Crying Wolf 2002.01.07 -- 25.4882812500% -- Elmar Crying Wolf

Sad and still shocked, regards / Mikael

you are shocked,,, so what are the breed clubs in Europe going to do about it,???????/ hey maybe you will need some of my CWS X WOLF sooner than you think :lol: pacino,,,,,

I se your point Pacino :lol: but no thanks...

Regards / Mikael

More statistic / worning signs !!!
 

Numbers of offsprings 10 topplist on CsV born after year 2000.
Whit COI on 5 generations…

47 offsprings ---COI 21,53%---2002.12.31 Baron spod Ïumbiera
48 offsprings ---COI 16,36%---2001.12.03 Batt Malý Bysterec
54 offsprings ---COI 18,16%---2004.01.31 Merlin Crying Wolf
51 offsprings ---COI 9,32%---2000.10.06 Rendy ---Passo del Lupo---
55 offsprings ---COI 12,25%---2001.12.04 Edgar Passo del Lupo
60 offsprings ---COI 7,76%---2004.11.11 Vaicko Passo del Lupo
73 offsprings ---COI 5,22%---2003.04.18 Timber Wolf Arimminum
82 offsprings ---COI 5,22%---2002.10.15 Duncan ---Colle del Lupo---
135 offsprings ---COI 8,35%---2001.04.12 Cutt ---dell'Irco Sortiere---
151 offsprings ---COI 10,20%---2002.10.03 Miky Passo del Lupo

Regards / Mikael

but about bitch offspring You not wright? who not be bitch who have moore 50 pupps. And thi be same evil.

It is, why in Czech work breed comission. It is, why we try to keep 7 base bloodlines and much males in every class. We know sotuation in other states. in much country is easy to take two "wolfsih type of wolfdogs " and make pups. But is not easy to keep level of Wright down. We need not new wolves in breed, we need to help to lines what are not much in the World. It is work for clubs, not to produce some pups in wolf type, but very related.....
I know, not in all casses we can make "not related pairs", but we try it.
For example: last my two litters was Wright 1,51 and 3,9.My two next litters will have 4,19 and 4.83. Is it possible, but you must choose good male (good for blood), not only champions with wolf face.

hmmm, but Hanka You latest litter make only wirh CH and winner,a and make linebreeding IV-IV. Maybe COI be ok but people who cann chceck inbreed variant see others.

p.s. I not atack You, only thake this like example. I think for others people better when we speak about us dogs, others not see atack for hes.
Regards

I don´t care about his titles, but it is blood what is not in Czech.
It was important for me. Not more.It is his first litter in Czech. He lives far and nobody travel there for mateing. So we will have something "new" here for next breeding. It is good for Wright, or NO?

For me in first place is gens, later Wright.
about long way ... hmmm I think from LT I have to longest way to rep. :)

But I travel too. I write about other breeders, which not travel. So if I CAN travel for mateing, why don´t take new blood to my country?
I know you don´t like Edit:), but I used male with (for Czech) interest blood.

aha ok.
But about Edith we not speak in this thema, and ... if You have falsh info about me and Edith friendship, please not wright this.

Exellent work and breedplan(s) Hanka :)

I really think we nead some international breeding roules,
(recommendations) about COI, total Offspring´s and repeated litters...

I do think that the most breeders do try to keep the COI low,
but it is a question how long this will be possible...
if some breeders make litters whit a COI on 20-50% on 5 generations !!!
And take over 50 Offspring´s ???

Not just the COI on 5 generation is important, but the total pedigee to...

I think we and the clubs better react NOW, not in 4-8 years, then it might be to late !!!

Very best regards / Mikael

Sorry Mikael, but for me, You not very see dogs pedigree, and not know all thime about who speak.
Maybe better mass studie all litters and breed plans?

Maby you can tell me what is wrong by try to keep the COI low,
and try to get in new blood in your contry ???

Best regards / Mikael

All be in control :)
sory but info about litter I not cann say- this cann say only breeders this litters, whot for he make this or this. Others we have people who be not happy for us speak.

I hope next time Czech republic will try to rescue the line of S and R Windsweept Hillok litters, jola z Krotovskeho Dvora and Falco zo Sennej, with the more "czech lines" these dogs will be almost outcrossing... but.. none have interess they have no show titles.

I have BIG interest...

No show results needed, only good HD and Bonitation...

Best regards / Mikael

I'm almost making a campaign for someone use these dogs, now that's public I hope someone will use it, without fear of the unknow. :lol:

For dogs blood/linie rescue need only dogs, and hes HD, and inbreed. others not very important.

Wow, there was :)

It's not important for a concient breeder wich plan mates seing the bloodline for all breed, without care too much if maybe this litter will not be such great or beauty, but most part isn't like that and have eyes more for the well know dogs, maybe that's why lines like this, or like almost happen with Iran Zemplinska Oblast line, are getting lost.

But this breeder has 3 dogs out this litters, do you not think he has a reason why he did not breed on with this dogs out of those litters?
Or is just only the line that must be kept alive, and really the rest is not inportend?
Groette Martine.

Wrote Mikael: "I have BIG interest...

No show results needed, only good HD and Bonitation...

Best regards / Mikael"

Thats a sound scandinavian attitude!. I support youre point of view. Nothing is more a detriment to a breed than pure show-breeding.

Fenris.

Where can I find out more about this line ???

Can somebody send me some info ???

Regards / Mikael

To follow up my prior comment; please have a look at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7779686.stm

Yes, here:
http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/dbase/o218.html

But blood of Rep is not so "interest"= good for rescuing :). More interest is Atos z Belesova.

Thanks, very very up to date :)

Good that somebody do react to this inbreeding problems !!!

Best regards / Mikael

Do the clubs have any sperm bank on this rare lines, or on other old good dogs ???

How long can one keep frousen sperms ???

How would it work to make a small spermbank today on this rare dogs ???

Is it possible ???

Regards / Mikael

Inbreeding isnt necessarily the problem, but lack of proper offspring selection. Breeding dogs for "beauty-contests" will lead to genetic problem despite the inbreeding practice done. Breeding for good working dogs require a multitude of qualities. Add to that "vitality", "multiple health-factors", mental characteristics &.c.... Breeding is far more sofisticated than adding up pedigrees and inbreeding coefficients. I know some breeders of domestic animals can be very successful practicing inbreeding. Mother-nature can handle heavy inbreeding in wolf populations thanks to severe natural selection. A problem with CWD is an over-estimation of some show-dogs as "studs" and an under-estimation of some good working-line dogs. How are the offspring tested for satisfactory breed results? The bonitations and working tests should be required for studs and brood bitches of this workingdog breed. What if : workingdog tests must be done BEFORE entering the show-ring??

Thanks...
I do not know if it is the Scandinavian way ???
But this is my way...


Best regards / Mikael

Dear Mikael,

sorry to say, but you seem a bit overexcited about the whole thing.
A so called rare line doesn't mean that it's a "good" line.
And if you look at the pedigree of Falco zo Sennej you see that's not a rare line at all. Sorry Sona and love to Australia....
His father is Cezar od Pavlisina, if this dog's name rings a bell and his mother Klea Ruskov dvor.
Her sister Krasna has many, many descendands. Look at the number of her son's Arek offspring and grandchildren for instance.
For Jola more or less the same.
Her mother is Kada, daughter of Orlik and Hesy.
Look at the number of their descendands.
The only so called rare line nowadays would be Jola's father Synek.
Do you know anything about the health status of the mentioned dogs?
Ok, Falco got blind at the age of 5 or 6 years and his niece Argenta Zelena Voda around the same age.
She´s suffering of a glaucoma which is probably hereditary.
I'm not patronizing you, but before making breeding plans, praising dogs you don't know and blaming certain lines you don't know either, I would strongly recommend coming to Slovakia, Czech Republic, Germany and Poland seeing some older dogs and talking to experienced wolfdog people.
The above mentioned example is only one out of many.
Wolfdog.org and the collected data are brilliant, but only one point out of many.
Have a look at the dates of the different summercamps and come over.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying problems with high inbreeding or even health problems in the breed but your point of view is far too simple.

Regards,
Michael

I fully agree with you, Michael. As it is said in Gaga's signature: Breeding is neither a function, nor a profession or a hobby but a title and honour. It should be deserved and held with dignity. :rock_3

I would add that breeding (unlike making litters :p) is a kind of art, where huge knowlege, hard work, good eye, skills, experience and imagination should be correlated with talent, (or at least a knack) and... modesty (?) 8):)

I think you misunderstand me a bit here...

I did not say I would breed on them, only that I was interested and wonted more info...:rock_3

Showresults is not needed, but good health is...

Best regards / Mikael

If we see in the correct point CzW breed have fell lines and if you see most part italians, Passo del Lupo, Crying wolf, Villa D'oria and maybe Kysucká hviezda, all other so called lines are nothing more than interessing mates, like Tambury.

This is the tipical information really important that everyones try hidden.
So, we have Glaucoma problem in the breed, if Falco and Argenta had this problem means it comes from Klea, from Klea litter only Krasna (and Klea) was used as stud, do you know if another brother or sister of Krasna had glaucoma problems?
Knowing this problem we already know that wouldn't be secure for the puppies make any litter with the blood % upper in K Ruskov Dvor CS litter.

Scorpion is Chryptorchid.
Sara is Displasic
Lack one?

And can we take out lines in CzW?
All CzW are parents, one more closed than other, another more far away than others, but all they are parents, the breed born of only 5 bloodlines and that is the problem.
For people have a little idea about the problem, FCI today only recognize breeds wich have more than 8 different bloodlines.
Some dogs and litters will show problems, some because bad selection like a huge inbreeding, some because accident, the ill appear in the litter, unexpected. But these problems shows only problems wich hole breed have and can appear, and the worst, will appear with the time when the line get more and more close.
What save the breed t'ill now was the good conscience of the origin countries and of some breeders wich don't make (or the clubs don't allow ) clone litters, different parents in every litter help to increase the genetic pool of the breed.
Some litters, some even of pretty famous dogs have brothers or sisters with health problems, chryptorquidism, displasy, hearth problems, epilepsy and maybe some others that we cannot nor imagine, commonly we only know the healty dogs and use it, if you see by line, and start use only healty line wich make only healty puppies in few times even this line will start to show problems because the consanguinty.

So, in this case the only thing that can we do is don't use the affected dogs, and in the case use carefully a healty brother, selecting with care for avoid close in the problematic blood.

Even if we open the line of the CzW with a new blood we will need much more than only one line and a lot of years for make really different lines for let the breeders make a more strong selection, taking out hole litter of reproduction if needed, taking out C dogs or any other "bloodline" wich we find problem.
Now, we can't do that.

Anyway you will rescue the blood of Rep together... Atos Belesova is his son.

Thanks ;-).

I agree whit you Nebulosa !!!

If possible we must save this line, we can not lose one,
when we infact need more blood lines...

But is it to late ???

And way do not the clubs do anything ???

What do the owners of this dogs think ???

Regards / Mikael

it is good point if you have european wolf, the breed is changing before your eyes in Italy, now the biggest breeders in world and the CWS from here are starting to look different from the dogs from northern Europe, we also have nearly another type altogether being bred in France, but before you breeders from Italy and France give me both barrels on this,, have a look at the photos on this web site and see for youself,, in uk over the years we have seen the Alsation a working breed turn into a hunched back, cow hocked dog with little or no working potential left so much that the Police in uk now import there dogs, i have nothing against showing of dogs but when people start to breed for LOOKS it is disater, going on how dogs look and how many shows it wins is when it starts to go wrong, the cws is working dog, and a good one at that, with spirit and energy and with a character that is hard to match in any breed, out going and loyal , so lets us all work together in keeping it that way, ive seen to many with there tails tucked up to do me a lifetime,
pacino

Topic Candy
 

Quote:

Post # 61. Originally posted by Mikael. "I really think we nead some international breeding roules, (recommendations) about COI, total Offspring´s and repeated litters... I do think that the most breeders do try to keep the COI low, but it is a question how long this will be possible... if some breeders make litters whit a COI on 20-50% on 5 generations !!! And take over 50 Offspring´s ??? Not just the COI on 5 generation is important, but the total pedigee to... I think we and the clubs better react NOW, not in 4-8 years, then it might be to late !!!"

Questions…



Thanks to all great posts. Best regards / Mikael