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-   -   European Wolfdogs (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24703)

vila 09-01-2013 23:46

European Wolfdogs
 
Hello!
I just came across this site, I guess the inevitable has happened :/ high content wolfdogs from Netherlands, one line with north American timber wolf blood, and one line with European wolf blood. I can't help myself wondering if they used Saarloos wolfdogs (the breeder being from Netherlands) or even our Vlcaks. I have to admit but I would really like to meet a high-content wolfdog, but I'm completely against this project because I'm certain some of these animals will suffer in incompetent hands. If american wolfdogs and their owners are anything to go by... then these pooches are screwed :/

http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/

http://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWolfdogs

michaelundinaeichhorn 10-01-2013 13:30

Pitiful animals and unscrupulous people...

tupacs2legs 10-01-2013 18:32

As far as the csv is concerned if I remember correctly they do not like the breed. Don't have much interest in the breed either ;)

Rona 10-01-2013 20:00

I wonder how it's possible to get EUROPEAN wolfdogs from AMERICAN wolfdogs. Miraculous metamorphosis? :rock_3

avgrunn 10-01-2013 20:57

Ok, the black and white wolfdogs are really beautiful, though as Rona said not quite European :twisted:, but the rest of the pack? The female looks like a vlcak, though I guess not so wolfish as they would like her to be and the male looks like some sort of variation on saarloos. I don't get it :( but their web site is awesome :p

vila 11-01-2013 12:27

No I think the name "European wolfdog" suggests they're trying to market wolfdogs to people from Europe (and be the go-to breeder of wolfdogs in Europe) and not to name the "breed". In the USA they are easy to obtain, now I guess they'll be easy to obtain here also. The two bloodlines serve to differentiate the product - larger american wolfdogs being more exotic and probably higher priced than the european wolfdog that is smaller.

avgrunn 11-01-2013 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448179)
No I think the name "European wolfdog" suggests they're trying to market wolfdogs to people from Europe (and be the go-to breeder of wolfdogs in Europe) and not to name the "breed"

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448179)
The two bloodlines serve to differentiate the product - larger american wolfdogs being more exotic and probably higher priced than the european wolfdog that is smaller.

Yes, and their european wolfdogs are not as wolfish looking as their american

yukidomari 11-01-2013 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448179)
The two bloodlines serve to differentiate the product - larger american wolfdogs being more exotic and probably higher priced than the european wolfdog that is smaller.

a little confused since they seem to be breeding mixes of the two types? :|

Rona 11-01-2013 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448179)
larger american wolfdogs being more exotic and probably higher priced than the european wolfdog that is smaller.

I suggest elephants. Even more exotic and much bigger :p

avgrunn 11-01-2013 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 448201)
I suggest elephants. Even more exotic and much bigger :p

Good one :lol:

vila 12-01-2013 00:23

Hahaha, then they would be called European elephants, and people would be confused and complain - there is no elephants in Europe! :D hehe

As far as the 2 bloodlines go, for now it seems they are not planning to mix them (only breed american type with other american type wolfdogs etc.), so the american and european "look" stay different, ...makes more sense.

yukidomari 12-01-2013 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448224)
As far as the 2 bloodlines go, for now it seems they are not planning to mix them (only breed american type with other american type wolfdogs etc.), so the american and european "look" stay different, ...makes more sense.

That's not what it says here about their 'American' boy: http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/English/Polar.html

'He likes to play with Raven and Faust and we hope to pair them up in the future'. Faust is one of their 'European' females...

vila 12-01-2013 00:46

Damn, I only saw the planned litter for this year Raven x Polar. It would make more sense to me to keep the lines separate, but what are you gonna do... :/

Rona 12-01-2013 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448224)
Hahaha, then they would be called European elephants, and people would be confused and complain - there is no elephants in Europe! :D hehe

See your point. ;-) Why not bizons then? There are both, European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_bison and American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison :rock_3
Definitely bigger!

Smokey 12-01-2013 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by vila (Bericht 448117)
Hello!
I just came across this site, I guess the inevitable has happened :/ high content wolfdogs from Netherlands, one line with north American timber wolf blood, and one line with European wolf blood. I can't help myself wondering if they used Saarloos wolfdogs (the breeder being from Netherlands) or even our Vlcaks. I have to admit but I would really like to meet a high-content wolfdog, but I'm completely against this project because I'm certain some of these animals will suffer in incompetent hands. If american wolfdogs and their owners are anything to go by... then these pooches are screwed :/

http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/

http://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWolfdogs

This is about 2 dutch men (Robin en Willem)living together in the Netherlands,who have Saarloos wolfdogs,

http://www.exumbrarumsilva.com/Ex%20...um%20Silva.htm

And I know they have 1 American wolfdog,I hope they don't mix the Saarloos with the American :evil:

hanninadina 13-01-2013 09:42

Rona, it is very simple why some people like american wolfdogs more, they are not shepherd like the czech wolfdogs, they are absolutely calm and some people think, they look more beautiful. I would say, these are reasons enough to go for an american wolfdog!

And yes Smokey, these Robin and Willem are the same guys and it seems that you posted their old website. I do not believe that they will mix the americans with the europaens. By the way, they do own only Raven. A Polar does not exist. It is Knuth from Jos de Bruin. If you look right on the website, you will notice that, where you can see "Polar" and Knuth, Photoshop does his work, lol.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

Rona 13-01-2013 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina (Bericht 448263)
Rona, it is very simple why some people like american wolfdogs more, they are not shepherd like the czech wolfdogs, they are absolutely calm and some people think, they look more beautiful. I would say, these are reasons enough to go for an american wolfdog!

Chistian, sorry, but I don't belive you :(. You stronly claimed that adult CSV cannot befriend and play with other dogs of the same sex, but from my perspective this is not true. I still take my girl (4,5) to dog park twice a week and though she does not like each new female as she used to when she was a pup, she has still made friends with several ones. I can also trust he 100% with humans, including children. If you were wrong with this issue and has never bothered to admit that, why should I believe other things you're saying? :?

Dogs, wolfdogs and wolves (elephants and bizons too) are each individual creatures with particular set of physical and mental features and it's a huge simplification to make generalizations like you do. The fact that your CSVs are always aggressive and ALL your wolfogs placid does not mean that ALL CSVs are aggresive and ALL wolfdogs placid. By making such statements you mislead and disinform people and wether you like it or not, take responsibility for possible misfortunes of disppointed owners and abused animals.

hanninadina 13-01-2013 14:05

Rona, it is an gentical issue. 4 wolves - 1 two times - and about 50 military working line german shepherds were the breed founder of the csw. Correct? This is the basis of the breed. And as everybody knows military working dogs are the most aggressiv working dogs - no matter if in czech or in germany army. I mean the average and not the specialist under them who are only educated for searching or bomb fndings.

American wolfdogs are founded with german shepherds too, but not military and not working ones. But mostly Siberian Huskys, Alaskan Malamutes and Alaskan Huskys were used.

Nobody must be any specialist to see, where the difference is. I must admitt that in the meantime where the csw is mostly F 10 there are more and more "friendly" dogs. But still they are nervous dogs, are very noisy.

Rona I get almost every two days a mail from young csw owners, who asked me for help. The reason is, because people like you do not tell the truth. Your dog is an exception but not the average csw! I am every year at csw, Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. The most noisiest meetings are the csws and msot of them are chained! That is different to Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. You will hear anything! And most of them can run lose.

I am always wondering about people like you, who never met an american wolfdog, that they do write about them.

Yes in comparison to Saarloos and American Wolfdogs, CSW are aggressiv! AndI guess, you know that I know about 500 different csw, because I am traveling a lot.

I can only repeat, because of people like you people buy csws and get rid of them mostly in the first year.

Christian

Rona 13-01-2013 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina (Bericht 448270)
Rona I get almost every two days a mail from young csw owners, who asked me for help. The reason is, because people like you do not tell the truth. Your dog is an exception but not the average csw! I am every year at csw, Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. The most noisiest meetings are the csws and msot of them are chained! That is different to Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. You will hear anything! And most of them can run lose.

I'm not hiding the truth from people, nor have ever lied about CSVs! I've talked several people out of getting a CVS, because they aren't easy breed, + require much time, energy and work. I know quite a few pretty agreesive vlcaks, but also several "normal" ones. The latter usually have particularly good contact with their owners, have been raised at home with the family and well trained.

I'm only saying that not all vlcaks are the same, unlike you, who claim that all wolfdogs are.
And believe me: there are people who are not at all interested in wolfdogs nor attracted by them. ;) I'm very happy with my vlcak! For me there is more to the human-dog relation than wolfish appearance and placid/shy character :)

hanninadina 13-01-2013 14:42

Rona, I am always taling about the average behaviour of a wolfdog! There are of course exceptions, good ones and bad ones.

And please watch my blog, watch the videos. Shy animals? I can not see any. They are sometimes timid. But you can see too that they are workable, Tatanka doing mantrailing, it is a pup from Noomi. You will find pups from Noomi who go along with horsesand other things. My from me bred male Izzy on Christmas market on a saturday in december, full of people and he was for about 8 month not in the center of the City, because he is normally my sport dog - and he did it!
http://siouxtalaperrolob.blogspot.de...&max-results=7
Have fun


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