Typical temperament of CsWs
 

hmm forgot and few worts about wolfdogs temperament say :)

I really want to read more about good wolfdog temperament :)

For me, as beginner, Gisu have many good points in some components of temperament which are lost in the breed and make wolfdog temperament so poor as this is now. No, I don't think that he is perfect but valuable ;-)

What do you mean by this?

Ina

ahhh he is handable, touchable, not agressive and not dominant, stabil , calm and open dog.
He is easy handle male, easy to live together with him .

Never worth caracter !

Breed standard of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog:

BEHAVIOUR AND TEMPERAMENT:
Lively, very active, persistent, obedient, with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Mistrustful. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.

... sleeping temperament :) very typical...

very typical for what ???????

Sorry I don´t know the dog - what was the reason why I asked my former question.
But I can´t see anything in Edits description that is 1. incompatible with the standart charakter-description and 2. that suggest a sleeping temperament (whatever this means).

So maybe it would be possible to explain why the temperament of the dog doesn´t fit the standart?

Ina

there is a mistake again in the thread's name. it must be "fight club" :lol:

there are stamp of temperament which are (in my opinion) lost in the breed. There of them Gisu present on high level.

I realy don't think that Gisu's behaviour doesn't fit the standard...and I'm realy happy that he is not agressive and/or dominant like many other dogs.
He is calm...sometimes too calm .
But for me much more acceptable this kind of behaviour than agressivity....(and I could write examples but I don't want to be personal....)

Edit

You can make with Gisu or this type behavior dogs IPO? or not can?

Ina, se moore dogs and compare this dogs in behavior.
yes this is realy new problem- activ and passive temperament. to big problem in working breed.

IPO? you write this than a lot of csw would have IPO exam????!!!!
Daiva,
There are life out of IPO as well :lol:
What is about your dogs ????

Edit

i not see question about me dogs :)

for me the main question is for what? people usually choose dominant dogs for work. and a calm one... eee... for shows? for life as a companion? sorry, i don't have calm wolfdogs, so i can't know it. but it seems we all have forgotten about main purposes of the breed.
we have topic now at russian forum where people say that they heard from some experts that it's normal for csv to be shy etc. sad, very sad.
we all are free to have our own preferences, but then there must be no mention about standard 8)

I don't want to talk about Gisu but the topic is really interesting at all...

Why you list dominance as minus? Typical CsW males are pretty dominant - just take a look on any champion class on any bigger club show... It is (almost everytime) full a DOMINANT, self-confident males...

What you call "agression"? Are dogs trained for protection work "agressive"? Dogs protecting their pack show "agressive" behaviour according to you?

I just want to understand....

Are you sure? Sorry, I've seen very little wolfdogs in my life in fact, but the ones I see here, in Lithuania really have no problems with fears or similar :roll: I could say that the thing you quoted are just what is so strong in wolfdogs I saw...

c'on Margo...you understand very well what I wrote!

Exactly!!! Words "lively", "very active", "with quick reactions", "fearless", "courageous" and "mistrustful" which were put in the standard eliminate very calm and "slow" dogs as not typical for this breed.

Daiva, I am quite sure that I have seen at least as many dogs as you have, I simply haven´t seen this dog. And I am into CSW since I think about 13 years.
And no, I haven´t seen any dog too passive to be worked but some dogs too active to work anything else but the short sequences of IPO and too active to be proper family dogs. And being not only a vet but also a professional trainer and behaviourist I see much more problems there. Though not a real problem in general with this breed. To be honest I think the charakter has improved a lot in this time and several officials have told us the same opinion.

Times have changed, dogs are kept differently than in military times, society requests other dog-types and people that work their dogs are not only in IPO any longer.
And I don´t want to start the work/sport - discussion again anyway.

NO, I'm really not....

A dog with IPO is an agressive dog? CsW protecting the house or working as watch dog - is it an agressive dog? Is dominant dog an agressive dog?

Did I write these??? Show me where!!!

But activity , fearless etc is not equal dominancy....and also not equal with agressivity, such as dominancy is not equal agressivity also.
Moreover as csw is a tipical pack dog, they accept the pack rules.....so the position in the pack is depending on behaviour and the opposit.

And I also don't want to wrote my oppinion about working dogs.........just only one thing : if you work with malinois or gsd you surely don't want to work with csw !!!!

does that exist a calm wolfdog?? :lol: :lol:

the only ones that I saw which is really " calm" , to see too calm are dogs which after information are dogs under treatment.... :?

I am not expert, far from, however, of what I see at home and of the various dogs that I could see, on their premises, in their element, are of the dogs of dominant nature, and I must acknowledge that is this difficult character which me also attract in the race ... :lol:

I also didn't saw them for years.... They never appeared before....
There was always the problem with too heavy dogs which were too lazy to move... ;) But it was caused by the type such dogs represented - lymphatic dogs tend to be slow and flegmatic.

But since some time there are more and more cases of "Saarloos alike" character by Czechoslovakian Woldogs. There is sojmetimes really no difference between better socialized Saarloos wolfhonds and some CzWs I've seen. Both are... I would not say "friendly" but "indifferent". The behave similar to the dogs which get calming drugs (but I'm 100% that the owners do not gave them any drugs!).
And I know such dogs appeared in different countries...

...if you are lazy and look for more simple ways :roll:
csv is not limited in its possibilities, but we have to "give" more to get more from csv. it explains all. imho of course 8) i don't work with my wolfdogs (i mean professional level), but i see their abilities ;-)
and the most sad thing is that many lazy breeders (lazy to train, lazy to select by temperament - or just saving their money) proclaim this as a norm...

ok...than write about this, just after you made IPO exam with your dogs
I did...with csw and also with other breed...so I know what I'm talking about !

Edit

i know some dogs which are not controlable, not stable etc. but they have ipo diplomas :lol: and we don't speak about concrete dogs, but about our breed. and about very bad trends in breeding ;-) and not only...

Sorry but the term "dominance" is very often (and also here) used in a totally wrong way. Dominance in the ethological point of view is not about self confidence but simply about the rank order in the pack. It is not a part of a character itself but only a term for a kind of social interactions.
A socially very expansive male that will show this behavior not only against dogs but also against humans is nothing desirable as a pet in our modern times. A self confident dog is something desirable because it will stay calmer in socially stressfull situations, being not in need to proof itself at any time. So a calm dog might be very self confident if it doesn´t see a need to get exited. That doesn´t tell anything about it´s trainability.

Ina

The pack behaviour of dogs base on dominancy. Dominancy is connected with agression (or better said with different kinds of agression). Two fighting males are not "agressive dogs" but dogs which behave like...DOGS.
Males growling on other males in the ring are normal. Dog not tolerating dogs from other "packs" are normal too....

Sorry, but I read too many accusations on this forum "because you have an agressive dog"... People with unusual dogs attack people which have dog which show really typical CzW character...
I would not say that 'unusual' dogs have always 'untypical' character - but "the exception proves the rule"...

Yes. I agree. But the pack behaviour apply only to pack members - not to other dogs. Additionally - in many cases people do not keep to the rules what can cause problems. But PEOPLE and not DOGS are responsible in such cases...

I was working with gsds - I owned them for years. :) Even now there are many of them on our obedience courses... No - I don't want to train with them. I know their advantages very well - but I will never own any malinois or GSD because they do not have the advantages which CsW have... Malinois are perfect working dogs but CzWs are MUCH MORE inteligent... And it is something which is I value a lot...

In standard we have 2 lines descripcion of so broad topic. What is utility of csv? We have two exams: SVP which don't test behavior and IPO which is to difficult because need's good drive and eliminate shy dogs.


I have never pasted IPO. He is willing for playing, obedient, easy adapt so maybe low level of IPO...

There are several exams and several training technics......we were talking about IPO because Daiva wrote about it.
My personal oppinion is yes Margo...csw's are very intelligent, could study easily.....but not the classical working dogs , and not the breed which is good for IPO work. It is not means that some of them couldn't pass.....but those who worked with malinois or gsd...those surely could feel the differences :lol:

Edit

ok obedience, or normal activity, sport, running. Sory but I cry when see dogs who owners please they to runn... normal runn.
and this info we have from moore countrys about atypical activity in wolfdogs and diferent in temperament

p.s. yes when was heavy old cz type dogs this are moore ok, but when now we saw light and moore feminine type dog with this - a little to strange

What you described as a "top of dominance" is not typical for dogs with really strong characters but exactly for weaker individuals.
Expansive dogs which are also "sure" about their strengt are much harder to provoke. Sure, if they decide that somebody crossed the line the reaction will be hard.

The top of the pack is always a calmer individual. Self-confident dog which do not need to attack other pack members. Exactly the "second" dog tend to be more agressive: weaker animals which are affraid to "loose" what they "own" tend to be more agressive...

Dogs are not much different than people - they accept voluntarily charismatic leaders. Calm but self confident. Agressive tyrants have small chances to be accepted (and it makes them more and more angry).

This is not right as a pack in the biological sense is a family consisting of two parents and their offspring every other group is just a group, not a pack. In a pack Dominance is not automatically connected with aggression.
Two fighting males might be behaving like dogs but this will depent on how the fight started.
This is if anything territorial aggression, not dominance but if the owner is not able to control this behaviour in the ring, this might be due to his rank order problems with his dog - though normally this is only bad training and/or owners that like to show of.

As long as every kind of motivation will get mixed up it will not be possible to name the new character problem.
The indifference you described, if I did understand you properly, is something normally caused by lack of self confidence that has been trained of. The dog learned how to manage those situations.
It is different to the lack of interest many adult wolfdogs show to social interaction with strangers if they don´t provide treats or being petted.

Ina

One important addition:

What you described (dogs which "love" to show their "dominanca") I personally call a "Wolfdog with character of Caucasian Ovtcharka". I would describe them not as problematic but simply as not typical.....

Yes->obedience, defence, police work, tracking, rescue, agillty, coursing, pulling, dog dancing, frisbee,... but where are csv in them? Few in basic classes?


Ones more. What type of working dog is csv?

Well, I also don´t find them problematic but most people do. And if handled the wrong way they are very problematic.

Ina

if typical wolfdog is problem- buy a labrador :) - york - poodle or others breed. Wolfdog NOT mas be easy and calm and nice doggy from alls people

This is not what I ment with social expansive. We bred all our dogs with less desire to be the head of the pack than an average adult wolf will show. It is what Zimen and Lorenz called "Verkindlichung". In social behaviour against humans dogs don´t get fully mature. And they also show less drive in fighting for privileges and rank position. Though there are dogs with more drive than others and with higher conflict-potential than others with their human family. Irish Wolfhounds for example normally aren´t very interested in rank orders anyway, they have one but "so what", they don´t care very much.

But I think we both agree, that a life stock guarding dog like an Owtscharka is bred for totally different work than a wolfdog and therefor needs very different skills for work in itself. And in times of dangerous dog lists one should maybe think a little bit about the different circumstances in life. They simply don´t live in the border corridor any longer to prevent people to leave the country. But live in the middle of everything and live with their families.
Apart from that I start to think the problem here is a language one.
And still I don´t know what is untypical about this one dog.

so what is the wolfdog's typical temperament? :o

Lively, very active, persistent, obedient, with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Mistrustful. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.
sad when this type wolfdog we can see less and less

ok, :bigok, I have recognize well my dogs in this explanation :lol:

well. now sorry for my english...
obidient but living acccording to the "pack rules" - is it possible? dog's law is not human's law...

Yes - I would never buy a Wolfdog for IPO, KPNV or mondio. BUT... Wolfdogs were not made for such work....


But let's be honest GSD and Malinois-owners/trainers are.... cheating.... :rock_3

I can prepare some exams which Wolfdogs will pass very easy but here all GSD will fail...

The main "working" exams were made for GSDs (old type) and are also easily to pass for malinois (which are in the fact similar to the "old style" GSD). Wolfdogs have problems topass them because many parts are just simple circus - they do not test the dogs but test if is is possible to train a dog to make a tricks wich have no sence.... ;)

Simple example:
SchH - the dog must bark for 20.seconds... Everyone knows that Wolfdogs DO NOT BARK. They see no sense to yap.... Because of it many of the get zero points for it... Why there are no exams where the dogs CAN NOT bark...? Because 90% of GSD would fail? :rock_3

Another example: tracking by IPO exams... Sorry but to get maximum points you need really a DUMB dog... :lol: A dog which HAVE NO IDEA how to track... or... a dog which will fulfill the commands of his owner EVEN of they are totaly idiotic.... :D
The track is about 20 minuts old - it means it is FRESH and the parts of the the smell are still present in the air. No good tracking dog will work on such track with DEEP NOSE - which is required by IPO exam. Every clever dog will use also HIGH NOSE. Because CzWs are perfect tracking dogs and because they are clever dogs they will get less points than GSD or malinois. Maybe they will not even pass this part... ;)
(of course it is possible to train also Wolfdogs to use DEEP NOSE on fresh tracks - but it is harder to do than with "working" breeds. Wolfdogs no to like to make senseless things)

Because of it:
If I would need a dog for tracking exams I would buy GSD or malinois.
If I would need a dog for work - dogs which can track everywere and everything - I would take CzW.

Simply said:
If I would need a "tool" which should fulfil my commands without asking "do you think it make sence" or saying "...but I will make it my way, I can make it better" I would buy one of the "working" dogs.
If I would need a dog who sometimes must work also alone and sometimes must find some solutions by himself - I would take a Wolfdog.


Do you know the story with GSD tracking a missed person? The dogs were tracking it "wonderful" with deep nose but none of the dogs found him...because he was sitting on a tree and none of the dogs was TREAINED to look also up... :lol: Wolfdogs have no such problem...

I would not translate is a obedient but more "easy to train". Where "easy" do not mean that he can be trained like GSD but it is more about his ability to learn very fast.

For what I know, obedient can be translated also as "docile", which would fit better and also beat with the different translations of the standard.

Polish translation of "docile" means a dog who behaves this way:

http://republika.pl/blog_by_3574336/..._shrek_cat.jpg

i meant only that really obidient dog will not growl etc.

because really obidient dogs live accordong to their owners' rules ;-)
but well... i don't have perfect dogs too...

:lol:
Then, submissive, respectfull, completing with all what is writte in the character, we can read it as "a dog which will not try to eat the owner in revolt when the owner impose something".

I know many dogs than working in IPO and are good family dogs, off course they are most dificult than a Corgi, but they live in family with childreen, others dogs, others animal, no problem with people. From other breeds, and Czw too. I think than a breed, is a working breed, the caracter can't be change because many people want dog like a wolf, but don't want hard dog to keep. I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.
For me CzW must be like standard debscrition.

:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

so csv are great working dogs but tests are stupid. ok. but they are also not chosen for real work. for reserch too.


loco, my csv barks too :) and I train her in sport tracking ;)

GREAT!!! :lol:

Atypical, because he is a nice,kind, handable dog. Everybody could touch him, didn't show agressivity and even could be together with other males.
In Nitra we could be together with the same "pack" with Gisu, Gandalf and Emir, 3 adult males without any problem. They don't want to kill each other. For me it doesn't mean that they are atypical csw's but mean they are clear minded, stabil , well socialized dogs with good caracter .
And this kind of caracter is not the opposit what is written in the standard , and I couldn't see the connection this behaviour and working ability.
I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.


Edit

Originally posted by Edit / jasmine:

I realy don't think that the aggressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.

Yeah, that´s right - it´s exactly my opinion also !

It's interesting as not necessarily true and often (always) told by CSV people, the word 'intelligent' is so problematic, you may know the wolves -as I guess we would all qualify as so 'intelligent'- are performing less better than dogs to many tests, problem of 'fitting' in an environment, and regarding this point I'm sure the CSV would not overcome. Sure each tests is 'oriented', but anyway interesting enough to keep in mind.

So everybody whos male dogs are growling on other males have not stable, bad socialized, bad minded dogs with bad character? :rock_3
Because "typical CzW male loves to play and kiss other males"....? :roflmao

So we have breed full of atypical dogs.... and you are the only one with the perfect animals... 8)


Sorry but I get allergic when I read such words.... :|

"Aggressiv", "dominant" - what kind of breed do you want to have? Sofa dog? With lack of basic pack bahaviour? Dogs with character of a sheep?
Upps... even sheeps are pretty agressiv... And rams are VERY dominant.
As "agressiv" you can describe poodles, and yorkshire terriers (they are real beasts!). French bulldogs - killers! Did you saw how angry can be chihuahua male? When he meets another male? Sorry, but you are attacking dogs of other owners only because they behave like NORMAL DOGS!!!

10 years ago there was the same situation in Germany - Pavel and many other people will confirm it... It was the time when there were much more Saarloos Wolfdogs in Germany and CzW first started to won the publicity...
Saarloos owners attacked our breed EXACTLY with the same words: that our breed should die out because it is made of aggressive dogs. Because Saarlooos never fight with each other. They love each other - even adult males. There are no 'dominancy' against people - never are agressive against other dogs. The preffer to run away if something happend. That "we" (society) do not need "agressive" dogs like CzW.

They said EXACTLY the same.

Please - Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs ARE and SHOULD be as written in the breed standard. Please stop to make any advertising for not typical behaviour. Yes, some dogs are different - it is not a problem. But they have unusual character. And dogs like this for sure are not something which other breeders should follow.

If you keep typical character of CzW for "too agressiv", "too active" or "too self-confident" maybe it is the time to change the breed. Saarloos Wolfhounds are very nice dogs, which look similar to CzW. Such character is welcome there... And nobody will care if it will be not possible to make anything serious with the dogs...

One more question: if you believe in your words why did you use Carr, Juri, Geri? All of them are "dominant" dogs (I personally call them "normal"). Why you made litters with Hitt, Borko, Koro and Ali - they are "dominant" even compared to other "dominant" CzW males?

Why you use males which you describe as not normal? And "not needed"?

[quote=Margo;339786]So everybody whos male dogs are growling on other males have not stable, bad socialized, bad minded dogs with bad character? :rock_3
Because "typical CzW male loves to play and kiss other males"....? :roflmao

So we have breed full of atypical dogs.... and you are the only one with the perfect animals... 8)



Have I wrote these ??? Please show me where !!!
And don't turn out my words. We all know what I was talking about!

Amen.

I decided to have CzW also because of their character. If I would have Saarloos I would but Saarlooos. If I would like to have German Shepherd I would but grey "old style" GSD. If I would like to have sofa dog I would buy Vallhund....

I agree that times has changed - almost nobody makes IPO. But it doesnt mean we have to change the character of your dogs.

Sorry, but as a breeder I will not change character of this breed only because it will be easier to sell the puppies and it will be a chance to make better bussines. Yes - I agree - lazy, unactive dogs will be easier to handle, more people will be able to deal with them, there will be more buyers. But dogs are not "thing " which should be adjust to the market rules and expectations of the buyers.
NO - the character is something what must be stable. Because many for us love this dogs exactly because CzW are as they are...

Sorry, but if the first CzW which I get would be shy like Saarloos and lazy as Neapolitan Mastiff it would be my first and LAST Wolfdog which I get...

Sorry again, as I know Juri very well and you obviously find his character within the standard, he is not dominant, he is selfconfident and showing body signals of dominance in special situation towards other dogs.

And after a little bit of training and keeping rules he is absolutely no problem with other dogs but stays calm, does he now no longer fit the standard?
When he meets his mother or grandmother he is showing strong submissive behaviour is he now not within the standard anylonger?

Cäsar that you used for breeding did show no dominant behaviour at all and instead shy behaviour on several occasions, did you breed with a non-standard dog? Or did you get to know these dogs well enough to know that their behaviour was due to special situations?

And still, what is the problem with the special dog the discussion started about? How well do you know him?

Ina,

she is Margo.......she knows everything, every dogs and of course she has always the answers.........
For me Juri is a good caractered dog, not extra dominant and absolutly handable........Casar..hmmm..I don't want to write my oppinion about his caracter here...only one, he is everything but not selfconfident.
Borko....hehehe..we travelled together several times, he was my friends's dog, so maybe I know him more than you, Margo.......

And when a dog is well socialized for me not equal that would have saarloose caracter.............anyway Margo, how many saarloose you have????????

I spoke many times with Mr. Hartl about the beginnings of a cross breed of the dog's natures. Crossing the wolf and the dog is not easy ... involvement could not be submissive dogs. Wolf- female needed a dominant dog. I think that this - the original genes are present in nature csv, still clearly visible. Working with this dog is complicated .... like to get involved in their breeding dogs quiet and easy to use. But my heart belongs to a dominant dog :)

Why for you a NORMAL dog is something wrong?!?!? Please READ IT ONE MORE TIME!!!

Margo: One more question: if you believe in your words why did you use Carr, Juri, Geri? All of them are "dominant" dogs (I personally call them "normal").
According to this what Edith wrote - a normal dog (for her) is dog which behaves like CASTRATE. Or Saarloos....
Juri, Carr and Geri are not like this. They are NORMAL dogs according the breed standard for CzW and according the norms given for normal dogs. But because of it they DO NOT FIT to Edith's expectations!

Sorry, but what you can not change is the reality. Everybody knows Juri or Carr and everybody knows Gisotsu or Yam, and they are TOTALLY different dogs.

Sorry, but I do not understand your problem... I know Juri good enough. I like his character very much and he is typical male with stable character. Very friendly one. Like his father.
Why is it wrong according to you? Is is wrong that he do not act like dummy with low batteries?

Yes, I saw him may times. Also in private. I know that Jorg had no time to socialize him and it is sometimes still visible. But I also know his real character - really nice animal. And thanks to his active, friendly but still typical CzW characters his puppies won a lot of popularity, and many, many dog shows... They are really easy to handle.

But you know - what I really dont like are the ettiquetes put on dogs without any reason... I remember the time when people called Grey Wolf a extremly agressive dog - ONLY because he was trained as watch dog (he was working as security dog). And what? His offsprings have great characters (look Farouk). Many called Carr and "agressive" dog because since he has female at home he started to be dominant against some males. And what? He is father of dogs which have one of the best characters by CzW. The same is with being shy - what is SHY dog? Shy dog is a dog which had GOOD socialization but still he is trying to escape. Believe me - you can have a Wolfdog with the most perfect character but iof you not not socilize it it will become "shy". Even is the genes are simply perfect....

I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.

Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs? 8)

Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse.... :D

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????
I wrote they didn't want to kill each other...I think it is not the same things !
Slow and lazy like an old pekingese????? ohhhhh so where were the eyes' of the judges when put him in the firts place several times...several times!!!!

And please don't write about Casar to us: many of us know him very well !!!!!!

And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.

activ and dominant are two diferent things.
Activ dog can be without agresion and passiv dog can be with agresion :)

like one example from one dog show:
I saw one passive dog in ring with active dog - diferent is very big :)
both was without animal or people agresion but both was diferent in temperament.

But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

Edit

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs :) :rock_3

:lol: I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour... :lol:

Far away from being a pug.... :lol:

Drugs ????
What a hell are you talking about?????

[quote=Margo;339866]:lol: I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour... :lol:


I have never told the opposit...........

Dog all time have this same temperament _ NOT charakter but temperament- and IF you say in dog show he is calm in home not - this are one idea .. drugs.
I not believe in people to much - they used this - and I saw dogs with this in dog show. ( in mind have not only CSW but and moore breeds) and who are diferents I know very well.
but make this or not- this are this people conscience.

p.s. Jasmine I not used Your name or name your dogs. Why You have this stron reaction? ....????:twisted:

?????
I haven't seen him at home , and I think you didn't either, so we couldn't tell anything about his behaviour when he is at home....but we were together in Zakopane......he was not sleepy.


Edit

Daiva,


you wrote your drug-answer to my post.........
of course I react !!!!

Edit

"Aggressive and dominant"
 

Ok, obviously i need to explain how i have meant this words:
Originally Posted by jasmine http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/images/...s/viewpost.gif
I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.
Originally posted by Silvester:
Yeah, that´s right - it´s exactly my opinion also !

I meant it only in the way of : Not TOO aggressive and not TOO dominant !

Of course i agree in generally with what Margo told here - I also would not like to have a Csw with character of a Golden retriever or as shy as a Saarloos, no question !.

I think it´s very much a question also on what someone personally makes for him/herself the definition of "aggressive " or "dominant" .

As i wrote above - I meant it only in the way of : Not TOO much aggressive!

And I think there can be no discussion about this - for we all don`t need pitbulls in the jacket and mask of Csw !

Best greetings to all

Silvester

ah , ok

Jasmine Why You think I speak about this dog? I speak about two diferent dogs type who now egzist- one passive or sleepihng others normal- activ. Not think please- world not runn only about CW dogs :)

Daiva........you posted your text to me...to my former post.
What kind of reaction did you expect???????

And the topic was starting with Gisu...and always come back to this dog...some of you didn't wrote the name just pionting...but we all know that you are talking about him !


Edit

o-o
my male usually does it... and never starts to fight first (or only in some cases when he must protect me or other "pack" members), but he is surely able to (it's checked :rock_3). does it mean that i own a pekinesse? 8) and what is dominancy? desire to kill all moving around? somebody is wrong now...

sory but for me not. Themat are ABOUT temperament and we speak about dogs, please not think about this: world not runn only about CW dogs. :)

yes...you are right...something is wrong.....
everybody sing theire own song

for me a well socialized , handable dog could behave in dogshow, could behave among another dogs, people.
And it doesn't mean that this kind of dogs don't fit to the standard!!!!

If you couldn't handle your dog's agressivity/dominancy it means not you are the pack leader.
That's simple.

...it all looks like some people try to turn serious faults into specialities :(
dog can be dominant, can be calm, can be active etc., but never must be shy or agressive. and this difference exists, sorry. dog must be handable and obidient. maybe some people lazy to train their dogs want to say that their dogs are just typical ;) we all are different too with different temperaments, but we all are normal (i hope 8)). so there is a difference between individual characteristic and pathology and this is big mistake to mix it.

Obviouly I cannot make myself understandable.
scientifically seen the term dominant is wrongly used at this place. As it was used to differ calm behaviour from the ideal character and to explain what is wrong of one special dog I tried and still try to varify.
To be honest I think the problems here occure because we are all talking here in a foreign language.
Obviously these dogs did fit Edits expectations like they did fit yours or both of you wouldn´t have used them.
That is my problem and the reason why I asked several times: I DON`T know both dogs, at least not in a way that I could judge them according to their behaviour.


I was ironic I don´t have a problem with both dogs, especially not with Juri.
Well, that is a general problem, many people talk a lot about many dogs but only very few can really judge behaviour, that again is why I asked and still got no answer.
We have close contact not only to Juri but to several dogs out of this litter all have an extremly good charakter but there are people that should have known better that called them hyperaktiv - the new fashionable term, used on every dog behaving just normal for a typical CSW. Giving clear signals they behave very well and - sorry - very calm on leash and perfectly normal according to the standard.

So if somebody tells me about horrible charakters of dogs I ask till I know why they think it is horrible and mostly my opinion is different.

Reading quick through posts it seems you all, breeders, make a strong link between a dog character and the way to breed it, like if character transmission was strong as suggested in J. Jedlička paper, but from the paper "The genetic contribution to canine personality" this is really not the case: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...5&postcount=47

As Margo keeps insulting other breeds :twisted::rock_3 I want to say something from my little experiences...
I was allways a little worried about Brukne's behavior - she never shows any agressiveness towards people (unless they are agressive towards me, not her :)), but she is really not too good with other females (except her sister Walmaj and Callisto z Peronowki :)) and young males :roll: I used to think, that I've mist something in her education... BUT. When I started to create a TV show about dogs, I had a possibility to spend time with breeders of various breeds every week. Known breeders in Lithuania and other countries. Experienced ones. Believe me, that was a release! Pekinesses were trying to kiss me (10 of them at once), but after 5 minuts two males were trying to kill each other!!! Breeder had to make a good work to tear them apart! Chihuahua males - just the same! Breeder of Great Danes said "I can take a male and one of the females - females can not be kept together in one car or outside!) White swiss shepherds - females live apart from each other in one home :D My friend, breeding German shepherds, said "oh my female just bite my face" as this is a totally normal thing :D And many other examples :roll:

Take is as: :rock_3 or 8) or :biggrina

I love also other breeds. I LOVE pugs - I have always a lot of fun with them... I like them since one of them terrorized Bolton - I never met such "insolent" young lady... ;) I love GSD - I had them for years and they still own part of my heart. I love malinois - if I would not have CzW I would own one of them... I like pekinese - I owned a peke-mix many years ago. HE was a dominant dog - more dominant than caucasian ovtscharka owned by my friends...
There are many really great breeds.... But there is always something what gives the reason to "insult" them.... (even if it works in both sides :twisted: ;))

Exactly!! Not a long time ago there was a pretty famous case of two yorkshire females which killed a miniature poodle female...

But it is nothing - now the "top" breeds in PL are yorkshire terriers... You really can not imagine how many people come to our kennel club asking for advice because the yorks are terrorizing their families: bitting children, guests or attacking other dogs... :rock_3 The most agressive dogs which I meet on dog shows are... labradors... It is much more "dangerous" by their ring than by amstaffs...

In the same place as when they started to give preferences to Bulldogs without nose which today are unable to walk over one quarter without faint, to German Shepherds with over angulation and serious top line problems which today moves like a frog in the ring, to Brazilian Mastiffs with atipical character which today fear people instead of be a good guardian dog, and all that because them it looks nicer and that's why right.

After "Pedigree dogs" I think every breeder should think twice before try to use the dogshow titles as merit and proof of quality because now lay people also got informed about what's happening at the dogshows.

For CzW it's even more sad, because often what the judges are seeking for and considering as correct is completly different of what the standard ask for.

It's unbelievable that there are still breeders which give value to show titles and even select their studs taking the titles as basis.

One of the most winning wolfdogs in the last time in PL is a brown german shepherd - totally overangulated male is VERY sloping top line, moving like GSD from show line. He is very titled dog who won a lot not only in our country...

At the same dog shows typical CzWs get descriptions: dog with "too long legs", "not enough angulated" with "too short tails"... And of course with too small chest.... :lol:

If the CzW breeders would pay attention to the shows results the CzW would already share the fate of Germans Shepherds which changed from such dogs:

http://www.chapso.de/galpics/2008/02...1207310733.jpg

to such .... dogs(?)

http://media.snimka.bg/5322/016898783.jpg

And the sadest thing is when they like the "wolfish" character :roll: I've heard some very experienced cynologists saying, that YES, it is normal for CzW to be afraid of people :shock:

Agree, agree and agree :) This is a WORKING BREED NOT A SHOW BREED !!!

Best regards / Mikael

I like GSD like this one >>> http://www.ruffgsd.com/Images/Puppie...306/ester2.jpg

This one is from Czech Republic line... Maybee there is still some hope for the GSD breed after all ?

Best regards / M

hmm and this have moore strong angulation like new GSD. I know old GSD type dogs :) with normal angulation and temperament and charakter... cuute

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...8_347273_n.jpg

this are slovak dogs, who work in policie and others systems.

nice malinois :) As I repeat from time to time that breed creators made big mistake when the use gsd no malinois :lol:

i think this are.... old GSD :) not malinois

I understand about GSD, but to be fair, most of the dogs here that are 'liked' are also not stacked 'properly' as a show form.

Of course when one takes show-GSD in stack and compares to old-style GSD in normal stance, the difference looks like a different breed.

Take the old-style GSD and put that one in a show stack.. it'll still be different but similarities will be there. :)

very good short video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_oum...eature=related