(Almost) white puppies by "od Uhoste" kennel (problems with Galiba CW?)
 

ARE YOU SURE, Hanka? :? HONESTLY? :roll: I know you have your own doubts. :? And we know you will never say it public because you have 2 females with "Galiba" blood...
I was thinking not to participate in these "wars" but when I read it and after I added 2 + 2 I saw that it makes 4.... :?

Sorry, but writing that "Galiba is pure CsV because he have normal colour" is simply ridiculous. Of course he looks normal. The same would be with every mix of red Saarloos and CsW. It is very simple genetics - red (forest) colour is recessive so you need genes from both parents to get red puppies, in all other cases the puppies will have standard colour. It means also that if you cover CsWs (which do not carry such genes) with red Saarloos you will get not even ONE red puppy. ALL pups will look like Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs! And their offsprings too! Till.... you will make any inbreed (mate two dogs from the same line coming from the Saarloos cross) and the red genes from the father Saarloos will meet by the puppies.
It means that if there was even an "accidental" Saarloos mating by Crying Wolf maybe there will be no more red puppies born by other breeders... till the breeders will not make inbreeds on "affected" animals. Such case happened by de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale. The breeder mated two Crying Wolf dogs and get in one litter two red puppies. And as far I know they were not the only red puppies born there.

What do you want to say us with "His owner is veterinary doctor, she is normal, clever and not blind. If she will have saarlos mix, she will be first, who will ask breeder"??? Do you want to say that vets can see GENES? :roll: Sorry but sometimes it is even hard to distinguish some Saarloos Wolfdogs from Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and you think that a vet can see if a dog is a mix? 8) Daniela wrote already that it is hard even if you have a good laboratory and you claim that the owner (or the breeder) of Galiba can see it with her own eyes??? :shock:

I also think that the problem is not Galiba and the "G"-litter but his offsprings which seems to be not (all) sired by him. It is visible by the strange things which happen to the puppies. It was mentioned the red colour and the Saarloos "Mickey-mouse" masks. But you know that there is something more - the "white" puppies.

After your litter "Z" was born (where mother is Crying Wolf Wickey) the breeders in some countries were shocked because of the "white" (or better said: lilac) colour of the puppies. I received their photos from two different courses as a news. No wonder - I bred already almost 150 Wolfdogs and not even one puppy was looking like this (even the dogs which are light silver-grey later are born VERY DARK (almost black)).

To show it better - here are the puppies from your "Crying Wolf"-litter:
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/12/124480.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/12/124479.jpg

And here are VERY LIGHT coloured(!) CsW puppies of the same age (which are also really light coloured as adult dogs - some of them are pure silver-grey):
http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...-09-culsu4.JPG
http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...Karharoth2.JPG
http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...2-Lorelei1.JPG
http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...39-3156347.jpg
http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...55-4553802.jpg
http://www.zperonowki.com/pics/galle...06.11.14-I.jpg
(puppy on the left side).

Everybody can see the puppies with the Crying Wolf blood look VERY strange. :roll: And I know that you was also not sure if they are purebreed. But you made a small "mistake" you though that maybe the female run away and was covered by an other dog. And you made the parentage test of the puppies and their parents - of course it matched. But what you didn't checked and what can be exactly a reason for such different colour of the puppies is the "blood" of the Crying Wolf female: if she was really sired by your dog. And/or if her mother is purebreed Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (if her father is Galiba or the red Saarloos)....


It is my 2 + 2 = 4. Sorry but there are to many very strange things happening in this line. We can explain as "mutation" ONE thing. But CW do not live in radioactive area to explain so many "mutations" which appear there. :? It is why I also joined the group of breeders who do not use any dog coming from the "new" Crying Wolf line. Till there will be OFFICIAL tests done which will show which dogs DNA match and which pedigrees are real...

You are not normal.
I remember time,when wolfdog. org was nice place for writting about wolfdogs. Now it is only "world of gossips about wolfdogs".
My pups are pure breed, of course.
I know, you are envy, when this "white" puppy is World winner now. Puppy from male of owner which you hate..... But it is your problem.
I bred wolfdogs, I breed wolfdogs and I will breed wolfdogs.
Other I wrote here already and I will not write something 2x.
Maybe you need your own family, children,...You will have more important things to do..
Envy is bad.

Hanka, you are totally wrong. I own several club and European CsW speciality show winners and I bred several club winners and European CsW speciality show winners - titles which are much more prestigious than the (only one) World Winner title. But if you want - among the dogs which I bred you will find also World Winner and Junior World Winner. There is really nothing what I can envy you - even a bit. :) So please do not turn it this way - it is REALLY not personally! :)

What we are speaking about are facts. :? Everybody knows that I planned to use some offsprings of CW dogs in the future but all matings were cancelled due the the fact of not clear situation of the dogs. I really can act like you and to say "the dogs look pure so the must be purebreed". But I will not delude myself - I WANT (MUST) KNOW the truth - especially because of many "mutations" which appear here.
If the DNA of the dogs will be checked and it will be officially proven that they are pure I will use them. IT IS SIMPLE - I will use such dogs even if I do not like it's breeder and her breeding "style" (I will cover my females with the stud dog and not with the people ;)).

What worry me personally is the fact that threre are more and more dogs where we can not trust that the dogs are purebreed. Before it was enough to use Czech or Slovak line to be sure that the stud dog is 100% CsW. But now it seems that even the blood in the origin countries gets polluted.... :(

Hanka, it seems to be another lie spread by you...Believe me - I'm not a homeless, orphaned person.... :lol:
Anyway next time before you write something like this to ANYBODY - lease think twice before you discredit yourself again.... :|

Can someone please tell me this with some degree of certainty - it is really important to know...

completely unworthy arguments, even not arguments at all (seems you don't have them), but attempt to offend margo and change the theme... mda... http://dl.hostingfailov.com/sn_user_...635-185458.gif

before you repeat your favourite "envy" - buy a mirror.

:( i find it sad that here this thread writes there is the possibility of a popular line being mixed.

and instead of all owners and breeders working together to find out if this is true or not, some just make ugly personal attack like this, and other ignore the plead for help to make the DNA tests, and others just deny by words there is no possibility for this to exist.

sorry, i am not a breeder, but i would think it would be best to realize that this potential problem which exists in many dogs' pedigree is detrimental to the integrity and purebred status of the breed we care about, the Czechoslovakian Vlcak.

and it's OK to make a mistake, anyone can make them, but what seems like ensuing cover up is worse than initial mistake, if any. :(

Light pups was in popuation sometimes from beggin, they are (last year I had seen one litter) and they will be.
here are photos of pups of cz. wolfdog with pedigree, czech breeding, from 80/90. years of last century. It is a pitty, paper is old and more yelow, so we can´t see right colour of pupps, but nobody in 90. years was so stupid to tell to breeder he breeds croosed wolfdogs, because he has almost white pups.
These dogs have in adult age normal colour.
They are in genes of all wolfdogs in the World.
It is history of breed........
https://picasaweb.google.com/1100422...sPritelCloveka#
Some people know nothing, but they must comment everything. Especially breeding of other breeders....Stupid.

Nobody wants to be having this discussion. A simple Official DNA test would stop the discussion immediately and everyone could get back to what is best for the breed - co-operation. As this test does not look like it will happen voluntarily, petitioning is all we have.

What is is? What have this to do with the TOPIC? And the problematic colour of the puppies? NOTHING!

NOBODY wrote that light PUPPIES do not exist by CsW. The photos which you published are nothing special. There are MANY light puppies.
What do not exist are white newborn CsW puppies.

Do not show me photos of 4-6 weeeks!!!! old pupps. Show me photos of 1-9 old DAYS old puppies which are so white....

There are TOONS of puppies photos in the Wolfdog gallery... I chose several of them - I took photos from different countries, different years and different lines:

http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/3/30721.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/7/72710.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/10/100400.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/16/160243.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/9/94829.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/12/122221.jpg

http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/11/117093.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/4/44698.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/15/156470.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/2/29943.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/8/84529.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/4/45747.jpg

http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/8/86612.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/10/101397.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/14/149476.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/2/29843.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/2/29817.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/9/90029.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/2/29661.jpg

http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/7/72341.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/2/29681.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/5/59069.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/3/31031.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/15/159038.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/7/70242.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/7/76111.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/11/113637.jpg
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/6/61803.jpg

And now compare the puppies above with THIS puppy:
http://dl.wolfdog.org/g/12/124479.jpg

Don't you see ANY difference? Do you want still to say that it is normal color?

Or maybe we will do it other way - I have question to other breeders. Did you have any white puppies in your litters (I do not mean older puppies which are several weeks old but puppies who are first born or only few days old). If yes could you show us their photos?

Wait Hanka - please write us the PEDIGREE name of the female which is published on the photos you showed us...

Hanka, I saw you published the article from Daniela's gallery. Thanks for it because it found there the best example for all people reading this topic who never bred any Wolfdog (and not not have experiences with young CsW puppies) and still have no idea who is right... Here they can see (basing on comarition) how different you puppies were...

Because usual Czechoslovakian Wolfdog which are even VERY light later:
http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2010/11...68-2538354.jpg

when they are born and in the first days are DARK:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9...6/DSC_0117.JPG
(the puppy on the bottom)

This is what normally happen by CsW

The pups last year had the same colour like mine and like pups from history what I wrote you. I will not send you photos of other pups, I never resend photos of dogs which are not mine. I am not you.
I know what color has 99% of population, I have these pups too. And????
I tell you, light colour is not some mix, but colour, which is in genes of our breed.
I am not worry about this colour.
I will not write you some names of other dogs. I will not help you in "witch hunting".
First learn, later you can write something...........

one week old

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5160278_n.jpg

7weeks old (red collar)
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3162370_n.jpg

and same puppy 6month old
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7051527_n.jpg

whitout CW genes...

One more time:

1) What is the PEDIGREE NAME of this female pictured on photos
I really hope that you didn't ublished us story about a man who took GSD-cross and called in Wolfdog....

For other people: In Czech Republic the name for GSD and not pure GSD crosses is "vlcak"... So many people who have GSD similar crosses describe them as "Wolfdogs" - here you can see more "Wolfdogs" for sale:
http://zvirata.bazos.cz/inzerat/1180...daji-domov.php
http://zvirata.bazos.cz/inzerat/1176...k-9-mesicu.php
http://zvirata.bazos.cz/inzerat/1154...eho-vlcaka.php
http://zvirata.bazos.cz/inzerat/1106...ita-bez-PP.php
WE have also many "wolfdogs" in Poland. In every animal shelter you can find some of them...

Hanka, stop the senseless private accusation and start finally to talk about FACTS! And:

2) Show me photos of YOUNG puppies which are so white...
I'm not a beginner who never saw a CsW puppy - you are not able to deceive me as you can do with some CsW beginners....

I repeat it one more time: CsW are born dark. Even dogs which are white-grey when they are adult. First later they change the colour.
So:
YES - light - sometimes almost white puppies are normal.
NO - ligh - sometimes almost white new born and very young puppies are NOT normal.

It is exactly what I mean - even very ligh CsW are dark when they are born....