[Pavel]

Hi Massimo,
as I see, you dont understand yet everything correct. Let me please put here some corrections of facts :

Originally Posted by massimo

If what is said by the EXPERIMENTATORS is true, that they only want to monitor HD evolution, that they will not use and mix with CSW, well honestly I cannot be against this.

Am 100% agree with you and nobody would protest here against such experiment. But excuse me, just in the basic school we learn some basically principles of every experiment which must every experimentator made before the experiment :
1. Set the experiment target
2. Choice the way, how try go to the target
3. Set exactly conditions of experiment and his rules

I never saw something from this 3 points (excl. very generally proclamation about HD improvement). The "experimentators" settting some rules as well (like take participation on the shows outside the competition, if will be by every hybrid not 100% negative HD, then the experiment finished immediatelly etc.) - dont forget, that it was made first on 15.9.2003 and the hybrids were registered on end of Mai 2003 !!! But this rules dont keep. As I said in last year, I feel that they want to use hybrids in any case and first argumentate with HD improvement, when hybrids will be not HD-free, then setting the rules on other argument (e.G. exterior or character improvement). And in the time (only not whole year) shows, that I was true. Minimally one hybrid is not HD-free and "experiment continued.

Originally Posted by massimo

Of course, the dog show was really a bad move.
in italy a dog without pedigree can participate to a show but cannot be CAC or BOB.

Massimo and everybody, who dont understand it yet. Mutara hybrids have a CsW pedigree just now !!! Only not regulary pedigree, but pedigree from "support register" which is using only for mixing some dogs without origin to the pure breed. Its true, that this pedigree is not full valid like normally. But such dogs can participate on normally shows, get the all titules. Only on International dog shows cant get CACIB, because register is a national registration and that is dont accept fully on international level.
If today come somebody with Mutara hybrid to italian show, then MUST be valuate oficially in ring, only dont get titules. But can be, of course, winner of class and in the case, then nobody get a titules as well, then can get BOB in Italy as well. Its a fresh information, which I get yesterday in Czech kennel Club (CMKU).

Originally Posted by massimo

Also Ing Hartl's articles are too old, something Official should be written by the club or Hartl himself in order to clarify the situation once and for all.
Not saying anything puts a lot of maybe useless suspect on something THEY say is CLEAN!.

I accept very much the work of Mr.Hartl in the past. But I must say, that with Mutara case he made for him self a bad. As I wrote, I can accept everything, but not, when somebody write one and doing other. And its 100% true in Mutara case.

Originally Posted by massimo

However, I truly hope Margo and Pavel are wrong and that it's really JUST and experiment to be monitored.

I would like hope, that we are wrong too. But all steps and information about "Mutara experiment" shows, that we are right yet.

1. Basicaly information, which you dont understand yet is, that experiment dont go outside our breed, like says "Mutara fanatics". All 3 Mutara hybrids have pedigree of register of CsW. In the light this fact looks whole case little bit on other side, or ... ?

2. Why were beginn the experiment top secret and all informations still be yet ? If is it a really experiment only, then is no sense hidden something. Am sure, when if would be it really and seriously experiment only, then after publish his target, conditions and rules will 99% of club members support it.

3. What I dont understand (maybe am little bit stupid ), why dogs, which using only for HD heredity need a youth presentation, bonitation, shows and basically a pedigree ? If is it experiment only, then dont need oficially FCI HD result but enought to do it under a short simply subcontract with a veterinary.

4. If is it experiment only, then I dont understand the sentence in oficially opinion of breeding committee : "... 4. V pøípadì prokázaného úspìchu u F4 by chovatelská komise podala návrh výboru klubu na za¾ádání o povolení regenerace ÈSV tìmito registrovanými køí¾enci...." (4. In the case the documentary success by F4 would breeding committee put on club board sugestion about regeneration of CsW breed with this hybrids ...").

Massimo, please, can you put here your opinion on this facts ?