Wolf hunting in Russia

mijke · 09-06-2006, 15:33

First I thought it was a crazy joke...
Now I think maybe there are people who like such hollidays

Judge for yourself:
http://www.waldemar-reisen.de/english/hunt/wolf.htm

Mijke

Mirkawolf · 09-06-2006, 16:02

Quite disgusting, this, really.

Nebulosa · 09-06-2006, 16:14

unhappyly this is much common in the USA and in other countrys too, is possible hunt a wolf "in the laws", without have problems.

In russia I have find about the " test on wolf" make by the russian borzoi club, you can see more here, they say that this is to keep the utility ( true work) of the breed...

Paula

Jolanda · 09-06-2006, 20:17

Ahoooooooooooooooooooo

I'm crying about these cruelity.

Jolanda

Rona · 09-06-2006, 20:38

Very, very sad...

BWolf · 09-06-2006, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

unhappyly this is much common in the USA and in other countrys too, is possible hunt a wolf "in the laws", without have problems.

Paula, that's not true. In the States you can't go hunting wolves. If you kill a wolf you have to pay a lot of money and you go to jail: it's a Federal law.
If you want i'll try to find more detail about it, but if you know some public web site about hunting wolves within the United State, please link it here. It has to be stopped!

I think that is a shame for a Country to allow hunting wolves in its territories. If you are reading from one of those country, react! make noise, we are with you!

In Wyoming and Montana (around yellowstone NP) hunters are trying to block the law to be able to hunt wolves again.
There's a fight in action down there for that and we are with the Wolves!

BWolf

http://spaces.msn.com/RunningWolves

Nebulosa · 09-06-2006, 22:57

Hi BWolf
One friend mine have see locals that make a wallet that authorizes the hunting, I does not remember the price, but it autorize the hunt of one certanly amount of animals in one certainly age, this is in Canada too, because this have many people that make the merchandise of the "hunt holidays" in these countrys without more problems.

I really not whant believe in this...

Yes, have the protection areas, but out this, they not have a true protection

.

Paula

Mosi · 10-06-2006, 00:12

oh yes some people love this.
oh what a rush to be shooting a wolf from a helicopter, can anyone say unfair advantage.
what kind of 'sport' shows such bad sportsmanship

...lets not get me started on Canned Hunts.

I watched on the TV some hunters that where allowed access to kill off some of the Buffalo in Yellowstone (I may be wrong about what park).
These animals had been on the endangered list for YEARS, and only now have they been loosened - meaning anyone can shoot them really.
What was terrifically sad was that the buffalo had NO FEAR of people, and sat there happily grazing among the hunters with guns. The hunters then proceeded to shoot the animals IN THE LEGS AT CLOSE RANGE.
They basically made those animals bleed to death in long and lingering agony, how fair is that at least if your going to kill them make it quick and as painfree as possible.

Nebulosa · 10-06-2006, 00:18

Other thing good for remember, is simply impossible to make one perfect control in one too much big "protect area".

Paula

Dharkwolf · 10-06-2006, 13:42

If you are going to stalk and shoot a wolf then use a camera.

(I'm partial to a Nikon but hey thats the influence of me wife)

Like that you will have a real trophy which you can show to everyone - A fantastic shot of the wolf you saw - and who ran off with his pack.

It amazes me that people are so STUPID. The prices these people cite are comparable to the prices for well organized photo expeditions to shoot (with a camera!) wild animals - the great advantage is that with a camera you can manage to shoot the same animal hundreds of times - which means you can get dozens of trips out of the same animal - and you turn a bigger profit. Killing off wolves like this not only fails to make sense from a point of view of conservation - it also doesn't make sense as a viable economic model from which you can make money (which I suppose is what these people want to do).

Bah - end of rant.

BWolf · 10-06-2006, 15:26

Paula,
i repeat: in the United States of America there's a Federal Law against hunting wolves!
Canada is another story. If you know any public activity within the United States please, let us know. It can be blocked because there's a law to protect wolves in USA!

Even bufalo is another story, I've been in Yellowstone last autumn and, i talked to peolple living near the borders of the park, to rangers of the park and they told me tht wolves are the most defended animals of that park and even if they go outside Yellowstone they can't be killed by hunters legally.

Let's stay allert about it!

BWolf

http://spaces.msn.com/runningwolves

Natalya · 13-06-2006, 10:52

As this "proposal" is from Russia, than let me say...

The situation is that Russia, not like all other Europe, had and has no problem with wolves. In the past we didn't kill all our wolves like France and Germany did. So, there are A LOT of wolves in Russia, Belorussia, Kazakhstan. Sometimes in some areas hunting is NEEDED, because big wolfpacks kill all domestic animals and people.

So, there is no danger for population of wolves in Russia. The other question concerns moral aspects of people, someone coudn't kill a fly and other would kill an animal with pleasure. But we are all different...

Kerstin · 13-06-2006, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalya

Sometimes in some areas hunting is NEEDED, because big wolfpacks kill all domestic animals and people.
So, there is no danger for population of wolves in Russia.

Do wolves really kill people?

I wonder what kind of attitude people have to wolfs/animals?
It is not easy to answer I know, because people are different as you already said, but in general? What is an animal or wolf worth? Not quiete much I suppose, but I really dont know.

Regards,
Kerstin

Natalya · 13-06-2006, 12:57

In papers sometimes appear facts that wolves attack people in small villages in Siberia and in Kazakhstan.

I live in Moscow, so for me it's hard to say what attutude to wild wolves have people who live in hand-made small houses 200 km away from the nearest city, at the end of civilization. When wolves couldn't find enough food they steal domestic dogs firstly, than sheeps. So people has to fight with them.

As for hunting... I'm not a hunter, I coudn't kill an animal. But I don't want to blame those who could.

And one more time: the main idea of my post is that there is no danger wolves disappear in Russia. There are plenty of wolves and controlled hunting is not dangerous for the breed.

Kerstin · 13-06-2006, 15:13

Thanks for the quick answer.

Well, I am just wondering

because I heard different.

One thing: Wolves usually do not attack humans.
Another thing: No one cares in the countries you mentioned if a wolf gets shot. So where is the point to stop. There might be many, but who says too many or too less?

I cannont judge whats happening there, but I hope by heart that you are right.

Natalya · 13-06-2006, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerstin

No one cares in the countries you mentioned if a wolf gets shot. So where is the point to stop.

It's not right. Hunting in Russia is licensed. And every year the quantity of animals for hunting varies because of the situation in every particular place.

Nobody can shut a wolf without a license. Even if some wolf is a dangerous for people, they can address the hunting organization of their region and ask for permission to get rid of that wolf.

Vaiva · 13-06-2006, 20:14

Hello, I'm Vaiva, a new CsV friend from Lithuania.
It is now allowed to hunt wolves in Lithuania, but only 20 a year. I am a journalist and I'm writing and article about the population of wolves in Lithuania now. Su today I had a conversation with a scientist, working in the Institute of Ecology. He said some smart things, like it is easy to protect wolves when you are living in a city and see wolves only on TV, books or internet. But imagine an old granma, living alone in her small wooden house near the wood and having only one cow, that feeds her. And imagine the wolves killing her animal. So...
We should allways hear different sides.

Don't understand me unproperly, I care a lot about wolves, especially now, when I can see it's wild beauty here, sleeping close to my side in my 2 months old Csv Brukne (Walkiria Girios Dvasia).

Joswolf · 13-06-2006, 21:45

Dear Vaiva, grandma can put her cow at night in the barn. We don not have to kill the wolves.
In France and Spain live thousends of wolves. Not to mention USA. Never humants were killed and very rare bitten. Not by wild wolves. Tamed wolves and then setfree is an differend story. And in Rusia tere is Bologov buying wolves and feed them and sets them free. They will kome to humans for supper.
Wolves are no threath to humans. And if one kill means alliminate wolves, we should condem cars for they kill peolpe every minut.
Jos

Dharkwolf · 14-06-2006, 00:49

Valva - I think you make a very valid point, there is likely to be a difference between people who live in a city and who never get close to a wolf, and those who know the wolf is stalking in their back yard.

If you are interested in protecting wolves that is a prime thing to understand - you don't have to sell the idea of protecting wolves to people who live away from them - you have to convice those people living next to them that it is possible to live with them and to explain the rules on how that can happen in a way that is favourable to most people (it will unfortunately never be favourable to all people)

(Incidentally Valva - good luck with your pup!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joswolf

In France and Spain live thousends of wolves.

Actually France doesn't have thousands of wolves - though no one can put an exact figure to it, there are probably less then a hundred. The first thing you need if you are going to argue in favour of wolf preservation is credibility - and one of the fastests way to lose credibility is to get basic facts like that one wrong.

Having said that - the issue of co-existance with wolves has nothing to do with the risk which the wolves poses to humans - It has to do with two very different things:

First it has to do with the damage which wolves can cause to rural areas - and yes wolves can and will kill livestock. This has to be somehow managed. Compensation schemes for the loss of livestock, schemes to decrease the likelyhood of attacks to cattle and funds for preventive measures (such as building enclosures or fences, or obtaining and training good sheep dogs whatever) are the key. These measures not only have to be effective - people have to believe that they are effective.

However - that's the easy bit. The hard step is managing the fear which the wolf creates in people. I'm still not sure why but I can tell you - some people are positively horrified of wolves.

I never realised that this could be such a strong feeling until I had a chance to watch people around me as I walk around with my wolf-looking CSVs. Some people's reactions are extreme. For instance I've had a woman jump away from the pavement and right into the path of a car just at looking at my dogs! I've had people who have picked up their kids and run over to the other side of the street - I've seen people who literaly hide from the wolfdogs (we are not talking children here) and even people who mutter curses and seem to cast charms every time we go past them with a wolfdog. That is the problem - the fact that the rejection of wolves by a great number of people is not based on any rational argument but on irrational fears and apprehensions. You can try to present all the rational arguments in the world to those people - it doesn't matter because the basis of their behaviour is not rational to start with. Somehow you need to find a way to address fears and to make them understand that living with a wolf as a neighbour is not something to be afraid of.

Honestly I do not yet know how to go about that - I'm not sure anyone does. But I firmly believe that is the main problem, and it is one which needs to be addressed.

(Oh incidentally - yes there are thousands of wolves in Spain, roughly 2000, and another 400 in Portugal, but you have to know that they are of a particular sub-species of wolves which is only present in the iberian peninsula, so even though there are significant numbers of wolves by european standards, they still are definately an endangered group)

Vaiva · 14-06-2006, 10:21

Jos, try to look at the map and You'll see, that Lithuania is much more smaller than, lets say, Spain. Not to mention USA

So even I woldn't like to have thousands of wolves here. Yes, wolves are not dangerous to humans, but dangerous to their dogs and animals. It is not allways possible to put ones cow in a barn, because the pastures may be about 3 km away from grandma's home

That is life. And it is real.

09-06-2006, 15:33	#1
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Wolf hunting in Russia First I thought it was a crazy joke... Now I think maybe there are people who like such hollidays Judge for yourself: http://www.waldemar-reisen.de/english/hunt/wolf.htm Mijke __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

09-06-2006, 16:02	#2
Mirkawolf Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brussels Posts: 556	Quite disgusting, this, really. __________________ :: :: :: Cira & Ali & Tulip :: :: :: http://vlcisen.mirkawolf.com

09-06-2006, 20:17	#4
Jolanda Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hoofddorp, N.H. Posts: 552	and more about wolfs Ahoooooooooooooooooooo I'm crying about these cruelity. Jolanda __________________ Groetjes, Jolanda

10-06-2006, 00:12	#8
Mosi Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 26	oh yes some people love this. oh what a rush to be shooting a wolf from a helicopter, can anyone say unfair advantage. what kind of 'sport' shows such bad sportsmanship ...lets not get me started on Canned Hunts. I watched on the TV some hunters that where allowed access to kill off some of the Buffalo in Yellowstone (I may be wrong about what park). These animals had been on the endangered list for YEARS, and only now have they been loosened - meaning anyone can shoot them really. What was terrifically sad was that the buffalo had NO FEAR of people, and sat there happily grazing among the hunters with guns. The hunters then proceeded to shoot the animals IN THE LEGS AT CLOSE RANGE. They basically made those animals bleed to death in long and lingering agony, how fair is that at least if your going to kill them make it quick and as painfree as possible. __________________ come see my art ---> www.afiach.deviantart.com

13-06-2006, 15:13	#15
Kerstin Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hessen Posts: 317	Thanks for the quick answer. Well, I am just wondering because I heard different. One thing: Wolves usually do not attack humans. Another thing: No one cares in the countries you mentioned if a wolf gets shot. So where is the point to stop. There might be many, but who says too many or too less? I cannont judge whats happening there, but I hope by heart that you are right. __________________

09-06-2006, 16:14	#3
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	unhappyly this is much common in the USA and in other countrys too, is possible hunt a wolf "in the laws", without have problems. In russia I have find about the " test on wolf" make by the russian borzoi club, you can see more here, they say that this is to keep the utility ( true work) of the breed... Paula

09-06-2006, 20:38	#5
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	Very, very sad...

09-06-2006, 22:57	#7
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Hi BWolf One friend mine have see locals that make a wallet that authorizes the hunting, I does not remember the price, but it autorize the hunt of one certanly amount of animals in one certainly age, this is in Canada too, because this have many people that make the merchandise of the "hunt holidays" in these countrys without more problems. I really not whant believe in this... Yes, have the protection areas, but out this, they not have a true protection . Paula

10-06-2006, 00:18	#9
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Other thing good for remember, is simply impossible to make one perfect control in one too much big "protect area". Paula

10-06-2006, 13:42	#10
Dharkwolf Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brussels Posts: 201	If you are going to stalk and shoot a wolf then use a camera. (I'm partial to a Nikon but hey thats the influence of me wife) Like that you will have a real trophy which you can show to everyone - A fantastic shot of the wolf you saw - and who ran off with his pack. It amazes me that people are so STUPID. The prices these people cite are comparable to the prices for well organized photo expeditions to shoot (with a camera!) wild animals - the great advantage is that with a camera you can manage to shoot the same animal hundreds of times - which means you can get dozens of trips out of the same animal - and you turn a bigger profit. Killing off wolves like this not only fails to make sense from a point of view of conservation - it also doesn't make sense as a viable economic model from which you can make money (which I suppose is what these people want to do). Bah - end of rant.

10-06-2006, 15:26	#11
BWolf Ely, Yuk e Megh Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bologna Posts: 994	Paula, i repeat: in the United States of America there's a Federal Law against hunting wolves! Canada is another story. If you know any public activity within the United States please, let us know. It can be blocked because there's a law to protect wolves in USA! Even bufalo is another story, I've been in Yellowstone last autumn and, i talked to peolple living near the borders of the park, to rangers of the park and they told me tht wolves are the most defended animals of that park and even if they go outside Yellowstone they can't be killed by hunters legally. Let's stay allert about it! BWolf http://spaces.msn.com/runningwolves

13-06-2006, 10:52	#12
Natalya Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Moscow Posts: 262	As this "proposal" is from Russia, than let me say... The situation is that Russia, not like all other Europe, had and has no problem with wolves. In the past we didn't kill all our wolves like France and Germany did. So, there are A LOT of wolves in Russia, Belorussia, Kazakhstan. Sometimes in some areas hunting is NEEDED, because big wolfpacks kill all domestic animals and people. So, there is no danger for population of wolves in Russia. The other question concerns moral aspects of people, someone coudn't kill a fly and other would kill an animal with pleasure. But we are all different...

13-06-2006, 12:57	#14
Natalya Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Moscow Posts: 262	In papers sometimes appear facts that wolves attack people in small villages in Siberia and in Kazakhstan. I live in Moscow, so for me it's hard to say what attutude to wild wolves have people who live in hand-made small houses 200 km away from the nearest city, at the end of civilization. When wolves couldn't find enough food they steal domestic dogs firstly, than sheeps. So people has to fight with them. As for hunting... I'm not a hunter, I coudn't kill an animal. But I don't want to blame those who could. And one more time: the main idea of my post is that there is no danger wolves disappear in Russia. There are plenty of wolves and controlled hunting is not dangerous for the breed.

13-06-2006, 20:14	#17
Vaiva ir Brukne Join Date: May 2006 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,768	Hello, I'm Vaiva, a new CsV friend from Lithuania. It is now allowed to hunt wolves in Lithuania, but only 20 a year. I am a journalist and I'm writing and article about the population of wolves in Lithuania now. Su today I had a conversation with a scientist, working in the Institute of Ecology. He said some smart things, like it is easy to protect wolves when you are living in a city and see wolves only on TV, books or internet. But imagine an old granma, living alone in her small wooden house near the wood and having only one cow, that feeds her. And imagine the wolves killing her animal. So... We should allways hear different sides. Don't understand me unproperly, I care a lot about wolves, especially now, when I can see it's wild beauty here, sleeping close to my side in my 2 months old Csv Brukne (Walkiria Girios Dvasia).

13-06-2006, 21:45	#18
Joswolf Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 757	Dear Vaiva, grandma can put her cow at night in the barn. We don not have to kill the wolves. In France and Spain live thousends of wolves. Not to mention USA. Never humants were killed and very rare bitten. Not by wild wolves. Tamed wolves and then setfree is an differend story. And in Rusia tere is Bologov buying wolves and feed them and sets them free. They will kome to humans for supper. Wolves are no threath to humans. And if one kill means alliminate wolves, we should condem cars for they kill peolpe every minut. Jos

14-06-2006, 10:21	#20
Vaiva ir Brukne Join Date: May 2006 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,768	Jos, try to look at the map and You'll see, that Lithuania is much more smaller than, lets say, Spain. Not to mention USA So even I woldn't like to have thousands of wolves here. Yes, wolves are not dangerous to humans, but dangerous to their dogs and animals. It is not allways possible to put ones cow in a barn, because the pastures may be about 3 km away from grandma's home That is life. And it is real.