HD evaluation according the FCI rules

jasmine · 04-01-2010, 12:04

Oh, about that.
Do you mean Héro Oskar Dór, a dog wich get C with 100º and 98º degree in norberg angles as worst result, had his hips evaluate for at least 3 vets in 2 different countries?

Ahhhhh 98 degree and C ???????
Strange.....what were the 3 countries? Because 100/98 must be C/D in everywhere!!!!!!!

jasmine · 05-01-2010, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

D is about 95º including in hungary, but the difference is that in your country a 96º dog still will be C, maybe it explaines why we get such bad results when works with some dogs coming of your breeding or used by you.
His HD where evaluate by 3 vets in different countries, Brazil and Poland, maybe I should send it to Uruguay for Margarita Duran for get the same or even better results and nobody be able to contest it.

I would like to remind you, great expert, that the results are not only gave by norberg angles, but also looking the situation of the cartilage wich reflects clearly in the bones.

No Paula, 95 degrees couldn't be C in Hungary. According to the FCI limits, when the Norberg angle is under 100 , it could be just D!
Please look after it! I have found just hungarian descriptions about it, but I try to find some English version for you.
And of course the HD results is depending on many other things, shape of the join, femur etc.........
The hd results of my dogs are not worth than others....all of them have official certifications, X-rays with identification numbers.

admin · 05-01-2010, 13:08

According the FCI rules there are about 18 different aspects which influence the HD-end-result. And Norberg is only one of them. In the case of Norberg angle is should be
- for HD-A: 105° or more
- for HD-B: about 105° or less
- for HD-C: about 100°
- for HD-D: more than 90°
- for HD-E: less than 90°

It is just reference as not only Norberg angle have an influence. Anyway a dog with good "looking" hips but with Norberg 98° and better can get HD-C according the FCI rules (in Germany it would be HD-C2)....

Nebulosa · 05-01-2010, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

D is about 95º including in hungary, but the difference is that in your country a 96º dog still will be C, maybe it explaines why we get such bad results when works with some dogs coming of your breeding or used by you.
His HD where evaluate by 3 vets in different countries, Brazil and Poland, maybe I should send it to Uruguay for Margarita Duran for get the same or even better results and nobody be able to contest it.

I would like to remind you, great expert, that the results are not only gave by norberg angles, but also looking the situation of the cartilage wich reflects clearly in the bones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasmine

No Paula, 95 degrees couldn't be C in Hungary. According to the FCI limits, when the Norberg angle is under 100 , it could be just D!

I didn't said the angle of 95 would be C in Hungary, because its the limit for you gave a dog D, the main question is that in hungary a dog with 96º will be also C, even if a 96 for us is considerate "about 95º" and the dog would receive D anyway even with perfect bones.

For you have an idea, my Bulldog received E with norberg angle 96º, something which would never happen in Hungary as look like hungarians results dont pay much attention to the bones format.

jasmine · 05-01-2010, 20:17

?????
we have a complex examination,not just measuring
(but I wrote it several times,moreover your breeder has some certification from me)

Nebulosa · 05-01-2010, 23:42

Normally the certifications don't have the X rays, and even when it have its too small, so the certifications will make no diference, as the diference is in the evaluation of the X-ray and the attention to some small things.
I found something that can show a little bit of the problem in internet even if its really dificult to show, principaly when the majority dont work or are involved with veterinary medicine.

Like, for have A we must have perfect femoral head, congruent and the most equal possible in both sides...

Its a hungarian x ray of viszla with A results by the webpage of the UK club.
Here the x ray, its big

And an A dog used as exemple, its only for see one A the femoral head and about how it should look like, of course we have some differences dog by dog, breed by breed.
The femoral head format is something that must be also evaluate.

But its only a photo we cant judge well by it, but even looking here you already can see the diferences and see that something isn't well.

04-01-2010, 12:04	#1
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	HD evaluation according the FCI rules Oh, about that. Do you mean Héro Oskar Dór, a dog wich get C with 100º and 98º degree in norberg angles as worst result, had his hips evaluate for at least 3 vets in 2 different countries? Ahhhhh 98 degree and C ??????? Strange.....what were the 3 countries? Because 100/98 must be C/D in everywhere!!!!!!!

05-01-2010, 23:42	#6
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Normally the certifications don't have the X rays, and even when it have its too small, so the certifications will make no diference, as the diference is in the evaluation of the X-ray and the attention to some small things. I found something that can show a little bit of the problem in internet even if its really dificult to show, principaly when the majority dont work or are involved with veterinary medicine. Like, for have A we must have perfect femoral head, congruent and the most equal possible in both sides... Its a hungarian x ray of viszla with A results by the webpage of the UK club. Here the x ray, its big And an A dog used as exemple, its only for see one A the femoral head and about how it should look like, of course we have some differences dog by dog, breed by breed. The femoral head format is something that must be also evaluate. But its only a photo we cant judge well by it, but even looking here you already can see the diferences and see that something isn't well. __________________

05-01-2010, 13:08	#3
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	According the FCI rules there are about 18 different aspects which influence the HD-end-result. And Norberg is only one of them. In the case of Norberg angle is should be - for HD-A: 105° or more - for HD-B: about 105° or less - for HD-C: about 100° - for HD-D: more than 90° - for HD-E: less than 90° It is just reference as not only Norberg angle have an influence. Anyway a dog with good "looking" hips but with Norberg 98° and better can get HD-C according the FCI rules (in Germany it would be HD-C2)....

05-01-2010, 20:17	#5
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	????? we have a complex examination,not just measuring (but I wrote it several times,moreover your breeder has some certification from me)