Breeding mixes - the other side of the spectrum.

draggar · 29/06/2011, 15h27

It's clear that the vlcak community doesn't appreciate fake pedigrees, mixes, etc.. trying to make their way into the breed registries but oddly it's the opposite (to some point) int he GSD world.

There is some wolf in many GSD lines (you can be pretty certain that if a GSD is working DDR or working Czech line, there's wolf in there). The kennels that were part of the ini9tial vlcak program were GSD kennels and it is highly suspected that some of the dogs that didn't stay in the vlcak program were put back into the GSD kennels and even later, some wolf was added into the lines.

But - you don't see the outcry over this, in fact, the opposite to some degree. Some people actually want that for non-military work (schutzhund, ring, etc.). Some seek out these kennels or their lines just for that.

yukidomari · 29/06/2011, 16h59

Please provide your sources. Thanks.

draggar · 29/06/2011, 20h31

You're not going to get any because you're talking about a reime that was very secretive - even vlcaks were top secret.

But - do you really think cash strapped countries like Czechoslovakia would take the non-vlcaky dogs out of all gene pools? The kennels and lines used then are still in existance.

yukidomari · 29/06/2011, 21h50

So.. this is just your simple assumption, then?

From my point of view, it doesn't make sense.

Plus, that's also accusing CZ kennels of inaccurate pedigrees..

Why doesn't it make sense? Well as far as I know, the CsV project was not to create a new breed, it was an attempt to make a better German Shepherd Dog. If they could have succeeded in incorporating the progeny of the outcrosses into their GSDs, the experiment would have been considered successful. It wasn't.

There is NO reason as I can see for zPs to lie and say that the experiment was a failure, and then to falsify pedigrees so as to incorporate the progeny into their GSDs anyway. It would have made more sense to simply say that the goal of their project was a success and that their GSDs are now an improved product of their project.

Besides, based on zero evidence anyway, all is purely conjecture..

Mikael · 30/06/2011, 00h21

Citation:

Ester z Ax Daru, Brooke's Mom, was imported directly from the Czech Republic, and is the daughter of Xero z Pohranicni straze, son of Grim z Pohranicni Straze, who participated in the World Championships (WUSV) numerous times, and took 7th place in 1997. He also was the 1997 Czech National Champion.

>>> http://www.ruffgsd.com/

check german shepherd dog lines from Kennel Straze

>>> http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o1149.html

>>> http://www.jinopo.cz/bloodlines.php?lg=en

Best regards / Mikael

PS, I like this kind of GSD´s ;0))), DS.

yukidomari · 30/06/2011, 00h35

Citation:

Envoyé par Mikael

>>> http://www.ruffgsd.com/

check german shepherd dog lines from Kennel Straze

Best regards / Mikael

PS, I like this GSD ;0))), DS.

Something about Grim zPs and Xero? I don't see the significance? PD is down right now too.

Vaiva · 30/06/2011, 08h32

Citation:

Envoyé par draggar

But - do you really think cash strapped countries like Czechoslovakia would take the non-vlcaky dogs out of all gene pools? The kennels and lines used then are still in existance.

Everything is seen so well from USA, isn't it?

Well, there is one thing that is not money - it is decency

A non "cash strapped country" like UK still breeds liver or blue colored GSD, while in these "poor" countries people have clubs that forbid breeding GSD with no IPO training

No matter about the money.

Back to topic - GSD are not wolfish dogs, they have no character similarities to CsV, so even if there is a wolf, it does not make real influence to the breed. What is this discussion about really?

Hanka · 30/06/2011, 09h29

Hi Draggar, I read your text a few times and I don´t understand. Dou you mean in this family of GSD is czech. wolfdog? Why?

Silvester · 01/07/2011, 09h28

Originally posted by yukidomari:

"Well, California is officially bankrupt" ..

Correct - also caused by the "help" of a political dilletant who is more well-known now as being the "Sperminator"....

So far to that - (yes,it´s very off topic...but I couldn´t resist that little joke.

)

Originally posted by yukidomari:
"And the cities, at least Krakow, aren't a commercial wasteland like Los Angeles is. It actually has art, city planning, and history.. .. oh, and it's beautiful."

Yes, Yuki- I agree to you ! Krakow - just like the inner old city of Warszawa also - was reconstructed and rebuilded after war in a really exemplarily way ... It´s simply beautiful, just like you tell !

(And I think I´m able to talk about that because I´m Dipl.-Ing. for architecture by profession.

)

I only know one city in Germany which can be compared - this is Dresden.

Best regards, Uli alias Silvester

29/06/2011, 15h27	#1
draggar Junior Member Date d'inscription: February 2010 Localisation: New Hampshire Messages: 370	Breeding mixes - the other side of the spectrum. It's clear that the vlcak community doesn't appreciate fake pedigrees, mixes, etc.. trying to make their way into the breed registries but oddly it's the opposite (to some point) int he GSD world. There is some wolf in many GSD lines (you can be pretty certain that if a GSD is working DDR or working Czech line, there's wolf in there). The kennels that were part of the ini9tial vlcak program were GSD kennels and it is highly suspected that some of the dogs that didn't stay in the vlcak program were put back into the GSD kennels and even later, some wolf was added into the lines. But - you don't see the outcry over this, in fact, the opposite to some degree. Some people actually want that for non-military work (schutzhund, ring, etc.). Some seek out these kennels or their lines just for that. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

29/06/2011, 20h31	#3
draggar Junior Member Date d'inscription: February 2010 Localisation: New Hampshire Messages: 370	You're not going to get any because you're talking about a reime that was very secretive - even vlcaks were top secret. But - do you really think cash strapped countries like Czechoslovakia would take the non-vlcaky dogs out of all gene pools? The kennels and lines used then are still in existance. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

30/06/2011, 09h29	#8
Hanka Senior Member Date d'inscription: November 2003 Localisation: Kadaň Messages: 1 622	Hi Draggar, I read your text a few times and I don´t understand. Dou you mean in this family of GSD is czech. wolfdog? Why? Dernière modification par Hanka ; 30/06/2011 à 09h37

01/07/2011, 09h28	#9
Silvester Junior Member Date d'inscription: September 2004 Localisation: Germany Messages: 369	Originally posted by yukidomari: "Well, California is officially bankrupt" .. Correct - also caused by the "help" of a political dilletant who is more well-known now as being the "Sperminator".... So far to that - (yes,it´s very off topic...but I couldn´t resist that little joke. ) Originally posted by yukidomari: "And the cities, at least Krakow, aren't a commercial wasteland like Los Angeles is. It actually has art, city planning, and history.. .. oh, and it's beautiful." Yes, Yuki- I agree to you ! Krakow - just like the inner old city of Warszawa also - was reconstructed and rebuilded after war in a really exemplarily way ... It´s simply beautiful, just like you tell ! (And I think I´m able to talk about that because I´m Dipl.-Ing. for architecture by profession.) I only know one city in Germany which can be compared - this is Dresden. Best regards, Uli alias Silvester

29/06/2011, 16h59	#2
yukidomari Moderator Date d'inscription: March 2010 Localisation: Los Angeles CA Messages: 847	Please provide your sources. Thanks.

29/06/2011, 21h50	#4
yukidomari Moderator Date d'inscription: March 2010 Localisation: Los Angeles CA Messages: 847	So.. this is just your simple assumption, then? From my point of view, it doesn't make sense. Plus, that's also accusing CZ kennels of inaccurate pedigrees.. Why doesn't it make sense? Well as far as I know, the CsV project was not to create a new breed, it was an attempt to make a better German Shepherd Dog. If they could have succeeded in incorporating the progeny of the outcrosses into their GSDs, the experiment would have been considered successful. It wasn't. There is NO reason as I can see for zPs to lie and say that the experiment was a failure, and then to falsify pedigrees so as to incorporate the progeny into their GSDs anyway. It would have made more sense to simply say that the goal of their project was a success and that their GSDs are now an improved product of their project. Besides, based on zero evidence anyway, all is purely conjecture..