European Wolfdogs

[vila]

Hello!
I just came across this site, I guess the inevitable has happened :/ high content wolfdogs from Netherlands, one line with north American timber wolf blood, and one line with European wolf blood. I can't help myself wondering if they used Saarloos wolfdogs (the breeder being from Netherlands) or even our Vlcaks. I have to admit but I would really like to meet a high-content wolfdog, but I'm completely against this project because I'm certain some of these animals will suffer in incompetent hands. If american wolfdogs and their owners are anything to go by... then these pooches are screwed :/

http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/

http://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWolfdogs

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Pitiful animals and unscrupulous people...

[tupacs2legs]

As far as the csv is concerned if I remember correctly they do not like the breed. Don't have much interest in the breed either

[Rona]

I wonder how it's possible to get EUROPEAN wolfdogs from AMERICAN wolfdogs. Miraculous metamorphosis?

[avgrunn]

Ok, the black and white wolfdogs are really beautiful, though as Rona said not quite European , but the rest of the pack? The female looks like a vlcak, though I guess not so wolfish as they would like her to be and the male looks like some sort of variation on saarloos. I don't get it but their web site is awesome

[vila]

No I think the name "European wolfdog" suggests they're trying to market wolfdogs to people from Europe (and be the go-to breeder of wolfdogs in Europe) and not to name the "breed". In the USA they are easy to obtain, now I guess they'll be easy to obtain here also. The two bloodlines serve to differentiate the product - larger american wolfdogs being more exotic and probably higher priced than the european wolfdog that is smaller.

[Smokey]

Сообщение от vila

Hello!
I just came across this site, I guess the inevitable has happened :/ high content wolfdogs from Netherlands, one line with north American timber wolf blood, and one line with European wolf blood. I can't help myself wondering if they used Saarloos wolfdogs (the breeder being from Netherlands) or even our Vlcaks. I have to admit but I would really like to meet a high-content wolfdog, but I'm completely against this project because I'm certain some of these animals will suffer in incompetent hands. If american wolfdogs and their owners are anything to go by... then these pooches are screwed :/

http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/

http://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWolfdogs

This is about 2 dutch men (Robin en Willem)living together in the Netherlands,who have Saarloos wolfdogs,

http://www.exumbrarumsilva.com/Ex%20...um%20Silva.htm

And I know they have 1 American wolfdog,I hope they don't mix the Saarloos with the American

[hanninadina]

Rona, it is very simple why some people like american wolfdogs more, they are not shepherd like the czech wolfdogs, they are absolutely calm and some people think, they look more beautiful. I would say, these are reasons enough to go for an american wolfdog!

And yes Smokey, these Robin and Willem are the same guys and it seems that you posted their old website. I do not believe that they will mix the americans with the europaens. By the way, they do own only Raven. A Polar does not exist. It is Knuth from Jos de Bruin. If you look right on the website, you will notice that, where you can see "Polar" and Knuth, Photoshop does his work, lol.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

[Rona]

Сообщение от hanninadina

Rona, it is very simple why some people like american wolfdogs more, they are not shepherd like the czech wolfdogs, they are absolutely calm and some people think, they look more beautiful. I would say, these are reasons enough to go for an american wolfdog!

Chistian, sorry, but I don't belive you . You stronly claimed that adult CSV cannot befriend and play with other dogs of the same sex, but from my perspective this is not true. I still take my girl (4,5) to dog park twice a week and though she does not like each new female as she used to when she was a pup, she has still made friends with several ones. I can also trust he 100% with humans, including children. If you were wrong with this issue and has never bothered to admit that, why should I believe other things you're saying?

Dogs, wolfdogs and wolves (elephants and bizons too) are each individual creatures with particular set of physical and mental features and it's a huge simplification to make generalizations like you do. The fact that your CSVs are always aggressive and ALL your wolfogs placid does not mean that ALL CSVs are aggresive and ALL wolfdogs placid. By making such statements you mislead and disinform people and wether you like it or not, take responsibility for possible misfortunes of disppointed owners and abused animals.

[hanninadina]

Rona, it is an gentical issue. 4 wolves - 1 two times - and about 50 military working line german shepherds were the breed founder of the csw. Correct? This is the basis of the breed. And as everybody knows military working dogs are the most aggressiv working dogs - no matter if in czech or in germany army. I mean the average and not the specialist under them who are only educated for searching or bomb fndings.

American wolfdogs are founded with german shepherds too, but not military and not working ones. But mostly Siberian Huskys, Alaskan Malamutes and Alaskan Huskys were used.

Nobody must be any specialist to see, where the difference is. I must admitt that in the meantime where the csw is mostly F 10 there are more and more "friendly" dogs. But still they are nervous dogs, are very noisy.

Rona I get almost every two days a mail from young csw owners, who asked me for help. The reason is, because people like you do not tell the truth. Your dog is an exception but not the average csw! I am every year at csw, Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. The most noisiest meetings are the csws and msot of them are chained! That is different to Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. You will hear anything! And most of them can run lose.

I am always wondering about people like you, who never met an american wolfdog, that they do write about them.

Yes in comparison to Saarloos and American Wolfdogs, CSW are aggressiv! AndI guess, you know that I know about 500 different csw, because I am traveling a lot.

I can only repeat, because of people like you people buy csws and get rid of them mostly in the first year.

Christian

[Rona]

Сообщение от hanninadina

Rona I get almost every two days a mail from young csw owners, who asked me for help. The reason is, because people like you do not tell the truth. Your dog is an exception but not the average csw! I am every year at csw, Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. The most noisiest meetings are the csws and msot of them are chained! That is different to Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. You will hear anything! And most of them can run lose.

I'm not hiding the truth from people, nor have ever lied about CSVs! I've talked several people out of getting a CVS, because they aren't easy breed, + require much time, energy and work. I know quite a few pretty agreesive vlcaks, but also several "normal" ones. The latter usually have particularly good contact with their owners, have been raised at home with the family and well trained.

I'm only saying that not all vlcaks are the same, unlike you, who claim that all wolfdogs are.
And believe me: there are people who are not at all interested in wolfdogs nor attracted by them. I'm very happy with my vlcak! For me there is more to the human-dog relation than wolfish appearance and placid/shy character

[Smokey]

Сообщение от hanninadina

And yes Smokey, these Robin and Willem are the same guys and it seems that you posted their old website. I do not believe that they will mix the americans with the europaens. By the way, they do own only Raven. A Polar does not exist. It is Knuth from Jos de Bruin. If you look right on the website, you will notice that, where you can see "Polar" and Knuth, Photoshop does his work, lol.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

Oke Christian
Yes they are the same guys.
They mix the Saarloos Shadow with a Czech wolfdog.

http://wolfsblut-vom-burgstall.de/e-wurf-planung/

I don't know what the pups are called than?
Pups are mixes than.
But I understand the pups are more expensief than a pup with a pedigree?

[hanninadina]

No Smokey, the breeder used another wolfdog but not Shadow.

And yes, in germany, people may more for "mixed Wolfdogs than for a pure bred FCI pedigree wolfdog. People check out the pairings and see/think that these combinations are maybe better than a pure breed for example czechoslovakian wolfdog.

But so far I know, the mother was a csw/malamute mix. Father from last litter - pups got just to their new home - is american/csw mix.

[hanninadina]

Oh, I see, it is another "new" litter, you meant Smokey. You are right csw female, and pure Saarloos? It shall be a F 3?! Yeah maybe from the french Skog Saarloos line.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Сообщение от Smokey

But I understand the pups are more expensief than a pup with a pedigree?

The prices for wolfdogs are around 2500 Euros and a lot of people simply want a big wolfish looking dog, as exotic as possible. That it is possible to visit the peripher areas of a market with a dog lying under some shelter or to find a family member on an emty area seems to be enough to dream the dream of a pet-wolf.
According to the amount of money that can easily be earned without any kennel or health controles advertising is allready starting. Deposits for the Dutch kennel can be made and Sioux Tala is planning two litters this year and the so called "calm Sport Dog" has mated three females - I doubt for free.
This is a very special world with a lot of money and illegal actions involved those of us who are interested in DOGS will not understand.

Ina

[avgrunn]

I've got a question because I don't understand some things.
Are they saying that these wolfdogs, will have great character? Will be amazing home pets? Is it even still possible when they will mix the american wolfdogs with so called european ones which clearly are something between vlcaks and saarlooses. Will these mixes also give great characters ? Or is it just playing on human's stupidity to have something wild at home or in their yard. I would love someone to explain that to me