Information about the list of the stud

[admin]

Originariamente inviata da jmvdwiel

I agree with some of the questions asked on the forum, why only remove the dogs with not so good ED results, and leave all the dogs on the list with NO ED resuts ?

No - the rules is different: we remove all ILL dogs from the list. So on the stud dog list you can not find dogs with heart problems, epilepsy, PRA and ED.

The problem was: the breeders (owners of ill dogs) DO NOT INFORM the puppy owners and other breeders interested in the dogs as stud dogs that the dogs have the problem. We already received complains from breeders who covered their females and they accuse US of "advertising" of ill dogs. As you can see there are different parties: here you can see one (real family: rolf, massimo - check the database and you will see why they keep toghether). But we receive also messages from the other type of breeders.

We know that many breeders do not check the heart, eyes, or ED. We know some breeders cheat with the HD results. And we know there will be still some dogs who are ill but not "uncovered". But it do not change one thing - dog with diagnosed illness is an ill dog.

[massimo]

Originariamente inviata da Admin

As you can see there are different parties: here you can see one (real family: rolf, massimo - check the database and you will see why they keep toghether). But we receive also messages from the other type of breeders.

Instead of admitting a mistake you are mentioning family.
This is RIDICULOUS, until I know the identity of ADMIN i will NOT consider this user as reliable in any way, sorry.
My only family is the one I live with, Rolf is just a friend, as I have many many friends who I often do not agree with. But maybe this is too complicated for you to understand.

Anyway...try to think, from the top of your ADMIN position...
If a dog with declared but not proven ED 0 goes on the stud list and a dog with proven ED0/1 doesn't.... it's automatic that you are PUSHING people NOT to declare bad elbows... as many other may be in the stud list.

By the way, i am NOT against taking away ill dogs from studlist, so you see i do not agree with Rolf. I am just against putting dogs with UNPROVEN health in studlist.

Last thing... this new administration is slowly pushing away members who have always contributed and helped this site, with info, pics etc.
If that is your choice...free to do it. But wolfdog.org has worked until now ALSO thanks to those who helped build it up for free...

[Ricky's Wolf]

I keep on not seeing the answers to the questions that I have done to ADMIN.
If this is democracy tell you him you.
A site of information must Be Correct it is Democratic, even if it is a private site.
I repeat the questions so all can read her:

Originariamente inviata da Runningwolf

Hi Admin and thanks for the answers.
Would it be interesting for all of us to also know your name, don't I think that he is a true secret?

?????

Originariamente inviata da Runningwolf

You owe, kindly, to explain to me as does to know with certainty this thing if so many so many reproducing dogs of the list don't have the official plates ED

????????

Originariamente inviata da Runningwolf

I repeat : why have not they been removed by the list all the dogs that don't have the official plates of the elbows?
I hope that this time you will respond to this question.

????????

Originariamente inviata da Runningwolf

question to Admin: if I had not made ufficial the plates of the Elbows of Voice and I had sent only to you the plates HD with result To, would Voice still be in the list of the reproducers?

????????

Originariamente inviata da Admin

No - the rules is different: we remove all ILL dogs from the list. So on the stud dog list you can not find dogs with heart problems, epilepsy, PRA and ED.

through which certification on the page of a dog he succeeds in knowing that the dog doesn't have problems of epilepsy or problems of heart?
You as you show that a dog doesn't have problems of heart or epilepsy?

Originariamente inviata da Admin

The problem was: the breeders (owners of ill dogs) DO NOT INFORM the puppy owners and other breeders interested in the dogs as stud dogs that the dogs have the problem. We already received complains from breeders who covered their females and they accuse US of "advertising" of ill dogs.

it is all right, every owner / breeder can be different from another for pure good sense and desire to work well. But if you don't remove all the dogs without the plates of the elbows don't have kept on making publicity to dogs that thing can be sick is it this incoherence?

it is really this the thing that I don't understand and that I find unfair. You have established some criterions (without informing all the person of this site, before wrong thing) according to me wrong but that I must accept and them accept.
But the criterions must Be Equal For Everybody.
You paint (your give answers) you to you as a site that is trying to give correct information on the health of a dog that is able' to reproduce. Ok, but in reality all of this' it is false because the health of the elbows of as dogs of the list of reproduction is not known.
WHY?'
Why do you want to appear as good informants on the health of the dogs and then not Dates the information but do you remove only who seems you??????
why?

[Navarre]

I don't understand how is possible to make statistics with ED and declare a family responsible of it, if there are so small data to compare !
Czech dogs don't have ED results, Slovakian too, Germany France and Poland so and so.
The main data for statistics is only from italian dogs...so what ?

Please, for WD to remain an affordable website about wolfdogs, we NEED some RULES that are the same for ALL.


p.s
I'm not "familiar" of Massimo in any way, but I agree with him 100% and so many users and owners of italian forum.

[starjumper]

To be honest I don't care if you think that ED 1 is worse than HD C, I don't think that THAT is the real problem.

The problem is that you encourage breeders to hide ED results... from a breeder's point of view, Riccardo has been unnecessarily honest. Foolishly honest... because he sent the result and "your" honest breeders don't even make the x-rays.
But Italians are the cheaters, don't they?

The only opinion I would like to read is the one you should write as an answer to THIS question:

Originariamente inviata da Navarre

The problem is very simple : why dogs without ED are in the list ? Are they ALL good ? Sure ?

[Navarre]

Rolf please, stop "fighting" about ED classification...we need an answer to only a simple question repeated so many times, but that can be formulated in another way :

WD encourages breeders not to make the ED x-rays ? Yes, because the message sent is : don't do ED, don't do PRA, don't do bonitation, don't do anything than HD and your dog could be a super reproducer...

[Juniorwolf]

Originariamente inviata da Navarre

Rolf please, stop "fighting" about ED classification...

I don`t want to fight about ED classifications, but I will defend my self and my scources when we are accused to not know what we are talking about.

Originariamente inviata da Navarre

we need an answer to only a simple question repeated so many times, but that can be formulated in another way :

WD encourages breeders not to make the ED x-rays ? Yes, because the message sent is : don't do ED, don't do PRA, don't do bonitation, don't do anything than HD and your dog could be a super reproducer...

In this I agree with you 100%(even that we are not family).

Greetings Rolf

[ste]

Nebulosa you have seen the problem, we are not talking about Ed, if it's or not a genetic matter, we are speaking about the stud dog list and the rules...
When there was similas discussion about HD, Margot asked the evidence of the HD result, you send?You are in the list, you don't send?You're out!
This is an hard lex but it's clear. (dura lex sed lex...)You propose another way...ok, we can speak about this..
But This ADMIN refuse to speak about this matter!
He delete dog from the list, (only the italian one?) without an explanation, without a notice to the owner of the dog...
It seems the revenge of a child....not the actions of a man (or woman) who loves the breed....
I'm nothing, just an owner...but I'm really disappointed...
For me wolfdog.org was a lighthouse between the interests of the big breeder...but now?Now seems just one breeder like the others...

[Navarre]

Originariamente inviata da Nebulosa

As we have at moment few cases of ED problems in the breed, as those dogs mainly don't comes from "rare" lines, not have why preserve ED in breeding spreading the problem in a breed that have a small genetic pool.

Paula, at the moment we have too few cases of x-rayed wolfdogs and most of them( ED x-rayed) are from Italy.
In our country no requisite is requested to breed, but many owner and serious breeder do ED test since 2001..as I can remember !

Again, as Stefano said, all italian stud dogs with HD-C (apart one, forgotten!) were removed from stud list too but in other country this is not happened. HD-C is not good anymore? Or some HD-C are more HD-C than others ?
Of course there are many (too many?) stud dogs in Italy, but our country is the most big producer of csw in the World, so this should be normal.
-----

I think we will miss the administration of Margo...may be after years, but she replies everytime to everybody on every question.

[Nebulosa]

I'm not talking principally about the stud dog list ( even because I only saw it now for see about the HD), but about the ED problem in the breed.
We also don't need to make any exams for breed any breed, by our kennel clube rules we only need the pedigree of the female in your name for be breeder and be able to make pedigree dogs.
I really won't disagree is all studs with HD C get out of this list.
I was suppose to do it last week but I had no time for select the posts, I will separe this topic and pass the talk about ED to health forum.

[Nebulosa]

Not perfect but better than nothing
Now we can argue about ED genetic here, and leave this one only for Stud dog list

[Ricky's Wolf]

it is simply Ashamed that an answer is not received, we wait. And according to the motion in which the person responsible of the site will act they will be understood so many things.

[Ricky's Wolf]

can someone respond to my questions, or it is impossible to communicate?
The question that more it interests me an answer is always turned to ADMIN and I hope that he have the education to answer me PLEASE:

- if I had not made ufficial the plates of the Elbows of Voice and I had sent only to you the plates HD with result To, would Voice still be in the list of the reproducers?