Ways of evolving of CzW...

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by Kerstin

To me it looks like wolfdogs are changing these days.

Its true and its logically .

Originally Posted by Kerstin

25 years ago they had to work and they where selected by charakter. These days they have to look good.

Yes, today is in mostly countries selecting by exterior ONLY. Selecting like by army is not possible more, because by army was EVERY dog minimally 1 year in intensive training. Try today put to your contract with owners of your puppy, that they must in 1 year have with their dog have minimally BH. Its unreal.

Originally Posted by Kerstin

How do you like these dogs? I love them

I dont know, what you like on this two dogs ? Both are to near to first generations and looks more, like a GSD, than CsW. Aro habe bonitation code for character Oi (nearly imposible to provoke), what was not good for work (and still not good). I know more better examles, than this two, which I like.

As I wrote, today is unreal to push owners to have in 1 year a BH or ZM exams. But am 100% for obligatory working exam for using the dog in breed. And its doesnt matter which exam (exc. endurance exam, which is not working exam, of course). Today is just many relatively simply exams, which can dog reach by only basic training (ZOP, ZZO, RHE etc.). By czech club goes every 2 years (club conference) discussion about it, but no majority is agree yet (I hope it will be changed ).

[Kerstin]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Yes, today is in mostly countries selecting by exterior ONLY. Selecting like by army is not possible more, because by army was EVERY dog minimally 1 year in intensive training. Try today put to your contract with owners of your puppy, that they must in 1 year have with their dog have minimally BH. Its unreal.

For me it is a shame, that dogs are judged by exterior only.
Well, 2 dogs have the BH and I am pretty sure the 3 rd one will pass it also. As a matter of fact I promised my breeder to work with the dog, and I will do so.
But you are right, I do not know if I had signed a contract where I am OBLIGED to do so.

Originally Posted by Pavel

I dont know, what you like on this two dogs ? Both are to near to first generations and looks more, like a GSD, than CsW. Aro habe bonitation code for character Oi (nearly imposible to provoke), what was not good for work (and still not good). I know more better examles, than this two, which I like.

Which kind do you like? I like that they are big self confident dogs. And they look like it. What is wrong with the fact they look like a GSD? 50% or more of them are shepard genes and talking about character you named it. For me as a owner there is nothing wrong with a Oi dog. A dog like this might not be the best choice for a "working dog" - but if I wanted a dog for working on a HIGH LEVEL I would not choose a wolfdog but any other breed like Malinois or Australian shephard, depending on what kind of work I want to do. I know you can work with wolfdogs, and you can get fairly good results but this is real hard work. And I am as lazy as my dog For a good companion living around with people an Oi or Oh dog is perfect. For me as a future breeder I would like to breed Of dogs of course but can you guarantee on genetics?

Originally Posted by Pavel

As I wrote, today is unreal to push owners to have in 1 year a BH or ZM exams. But am 100% for obligatory working exam for using the dog in breed. And its doesnt matter which exam (exc. endurance exam, which is not working exam, of course). Today is just many relatively simply exams, which can dog reach by only basic training (ZOP, ZZO, RHE etc.). By czech club goes every 2 years (club conference) discussion about it, but no majority is agree yet (I hope it will be changed ).

You know that we have the same discussion in Germany. You know that I like working with my dogs- but what examen proofs for sure that you are having a good future working dog? Is it BH? IPO? Obedience? Tracking? Trailing? Agility? Why these or other- why not endurance? Endurance tests had their reason as well - Bad mouth say- big dogs dont make it The above choosen example of the R2 did the 40 km as easy as the ZOP and BH
Isnt it all about attitude?

Greetings,
Kerstin

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Kerstin

What is wrong with the fact they look like a GSD?

They're a little bit outstandard because that say:

Firm type in constitution. Above average size with rectangular frame. In body shape, movement, coat texture, colour of coat and mask, similar to the wolf.

But all person have his personal taste, some like the more wolfish, some like the more GSD.

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by Kerstin

Which kind do you like?

Doesnt matter, what I like. Standard speaks clear. Simply say - the target is a dog with wolfish exterior, wolfish endurance and character of GSD (means the working line).

Originally Posted by Kerstin

What is wrong with the fact they look like a GSD?

According standard are practically all typically signs of GSD by CsW a faults.

Originally Posted by Kerstin

And I am as lazy as my dog For a good companion living around with people an Oi or Oh dog is perfect. For me as a future breeder I would like to breed Of dogs of course but can you guarantee on genetics?

Again - doesnt matter, what you like. Standard says :
" Lively, active, tough, obedient with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.".
Oi or Oh are not good character according standard. If you need some companion dog, quite, slow - then you must choice other breed. CsW was not breding to be a companion dog only.

Originally Posted by Kerstin

You know that we have the same discussion in Germany. You know that I like working with my dogs- but what examen proofs for sure that you are having a good future working dog? Is it BH? IPO? Obedience? Tracking? Trailing? Agility?

All working exams.

Originally Posted by Kerstin

Why these or other- why not endurance? Endurance tests had their reason as well

Yes, reason yes, but not testing the working gens of dog. Working exams means exam, where dog must know something and shows, that can learn and can working. To endurance exams can go shy dogs, same like dogs, which are absolutely uncontrolable.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Yes, reason yes, but not testing the working gens of dog. Working exams means exam, where dog must know something and shows, that can learn and can working. To endurance exams can go shy dogs, same like dogs, which are absolutely uncontrolable.

Pavel, have you seen any really shy or uncontrollable dog perform endurance test exam in prescribed time? Because just running the 40 km without having the paws injured is not enough to perform the exam. It has to be done in limited time. Of course, if you had ideal conditions (no dogs or people around), you could theoreticaly make it. But with dogs and people around, you loose precious time fighting your dog to run along your bike.

I agree that there are much better working exams (by the way, is Agility working exam in your opinion?).

But I don't think this is the topic of this forum (as well as my reply to Mirka, I confess).