de Louba Tar kennel

[furyos]

Well y think that response from mrs C .keizer open mind but people prefer things rumor that the truth ....what is the real pb ????? PICS show in this forum ? ok dogs not best coat /look skinny ...ok y can say that my dog furyos when he fall in love can loose 2/3 /4 kg and stop to eat ...and when it s rain look very very dirty (and he live with lot comfort in 2 houses...big flat-loft in paris 300m2 front" butte chaumont park(45 hect)"the week and a big house in north country the week end ...not good argument for people who never try to visit "loubatar" or "crying wolf "kennel ...Y DO and y m so happy to meet both woman so so good in mentality and do what they have in their mind ....wolfish look in their selection race ...YES Y LOVE (and y repeat ....Y M PROUD about this ...) wolfdog who have wolfish look and not german shepherd look ...that 's all ...for me and my vision is that ...BUT Y RESPECT IF SOMEONE PREFER DO WORK/ CANICROSS ...ECT .... ECT .... no pb the world is big enought to have yur ideology ....well y never see dog sick or with any problem in their kennels .....y think allways in this forum yu try to discredited kennels(few weeks ago it was passo del lupo ...when for an other one????) THIS IS POLITIK REACTION IN THIS FORUM!!!!!! Y REPEAT BREEDER IS NOT MY JOB (y win enought money without this passion) BUT PLEASE STOP YUR BAD DISCUSSIONS ...Y THINK PEOPLE inteligent enougth when they go to visiting a kennel to see if their futur pupps are in a good one or not... y trust in edit molnar and y win a lot of competition with her dogs ...(y know somepeople say it s not important but y never do show before buy crying wolf merlin and know anybody/ juge.///ETC....)y thing that this forum "smell hypocriate feeling" ....Rona ..sorry if yu imagine my reputation can became bad after say that y trust someone ;;;but don't remember first and second war in the pass :informing is not my mentality ...Y ' M FRENCH GUY AND PREFER FEEL FREE !!!!!Y DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE ;;;;;Y LOVE MY DOGS AND DO WHAT Y LIKE WITH THEM show /BREDD / SPORT ETC ETC .....VIVA LIBERTAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!DON'T FORGET FRENCH ARE FIRST IN REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!NO WAR FOR ME AND Y BELIEVE IN REPUBLIK MODELS AND FONDMENT(Y HATE "PROPAGANDA")...IF JUSTICE AND AUTORITY DO HIS WORK ....THEY HAVE GOOD REASONS TO DO ;;;;;;;;Y HOPE THAT IT 'S MY LAST POST NOW !!!! a lot of work in this season for me ..... TAKE CARE EVERYBODY!!!!!!!FURYOS.......

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by furyos

in this forum yu try to discredited kennels(few weeks ago it was passo del lupo ...

French guy, please speak only about things that you know : nobody discredited PdL; PdL discredited himself using and registering in book of origin a truly mix (maybe GS / timber wolf/ csw) as a csw

About the theme of thread : I saw some very ugly Kaizer-type csw after a big rainfall. But the cages are big, much bigger than the ones of many other so called breeders in Italy, Slovakia, Czech rep.

Dear mr. Pacino, you should put in the court many more italian, slovakian or Czech "breeders" and owners that keep dogs closed in a smaller kennel all day long!

Or - better- you can solve your VERY PERSONAL PROBLEM with Mrs Kaizer out of this forum.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Navarre

About the theme of thread : I saw some very ugly Kaizer-type csw after a big rainfall. But the cages are big, much bigger than the ones of many other so called breeders in Italy, Slovakia, Czech rep.

Dear mr. Pacino, you should put in the court many more italian, slovakian or Czech "breeders" and owners that keep dogs closed in a smaller kennel all day long!

Or - better- you can solve your VERY PERSONAL PROBLEM with Mrs Kaizer out of this forum.

hi so you are a moderator on this site, i will be glad to have any kennel you can tell that is not correct listed and reported to the authorities, i need hard evidence, photos with land marks, or statments from people who will state what they know in court of law, there are plenty of groups in europe who will take on and deal with these things, it is sad that you are moderator for you show me disrespect as i tell all you people of the horific conditions at de louba tar, i think you dont want to know about how these poor animals have to live and from your discusting attitude you sound like you dont give a dam?/ it is not personal as there are many people involved in this and many many statements from lots of people in europe who know this is true, this forum is to discuss a topic i think my topic is of great importance to all dog lovers and breeders alike i am sorry you are not one of them,,paul

[Navarre]

Sorry Mr. Pacino, but you photos don't signify much to me :

1) some dogs are thin (some not) but I always see Kaizer dog's in some important dog shows and they are always so skinny...I think she won't show them if they are ill dogs. I think judges should recognize ill dogs.
Ok, they are very ugly csw but it's not a crime.
In a photo mrs. Kaizer seems to show proud his skinny dog ? Is she crazy ?

2) small number of dogs in cages, max. 2 dogs in a large kennel. So no over numbering.

3) no shit or other similar visible in photos : seems that they keep them clean, even when it's raining.

Personally I agree that I never will keep so many dogs closed in cages, but as far I know many breeders (or puppy producers) keep dogs in this manner. Is just a question of numbers.

I don't know the real situation. Of course I can trust to you (but as I said, your photo aren't a clear evidence of guilty) but I can trust too to other French people that visited the kennel and now don't think about this the same of you.

Where is the truth ? I think only you and your old time friend Mrs. Keizer wiil know.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi so you are a moderator on this site, i will be glad to have any kennel you can tell that is not correct listed and reported to the authorities, i need hard evidence, photos with land marks, or statments from people who will state what they know in court of law, there are plenty of groups in europe who will take on and deal with these things, it is sad that you are moderator for you show me disrespect as i tell all you people of the horific conditions at de louba tar, i think you dont want to know about how these poor animals have to live and from your discusting attitude you sound like you dont give a dam?/ it is not personal as there are many people involved in this and many many statements from lots of people in europe who know this is true, this forum is to discuss a topic i think my topic is of great importance to all dog lovers and breeders alike i am sorry you are not one of them,,paul

Discusting attitude..... and you started the post by asking for evidence and photos. Who has a discusting attitude then??
Mr Pacino, do what you have to do, but use a forum for discussion and not for backstabbing people or accusing them from discusting attitude if they are not agree with you! You are getting annoying us!

[Joyce]

hi, now that the price war seems to be drying up !! you may be interested to know that after 5yrs & 7 mths work & effort by my wife mandy, myself & corrie keizer after tons of paperwork, hundreds of phone calls, endless red tape, & pleading with kennel club, lynx legends puppies are all now on the working & obedience register with the kennel club of great britian, the first step to get the breed reconised in uk, we need 10 czechs in uk to get on import register, then we will put the breed up to become fully reconised in uk, we have dogs that will be imported this year to make up the numbers, it has been long hard dtruggle but worth every day, corrie has give us support from day one, without her help there would be no czechs in uk, also many thanks to robb in hollan who bred lynx, so i think it is fair to say we have made a big effort for the breed, corrie & i promoted the first czech ever at crufts, we produced the first litter in uk, the strang thing is for all our effort & work, it did not even get a mention on wolfdog.org from all the czech owners & breeders on wolfdog.org we have only recieved two private email to congratulate us on our effort, a few words of support would have been nice now & then but not to worry, hopefully next year we will be the complete attension at discover dogs at crufts standing proude with our czechoslovakian wolfdogs. best regards paul,mandy & corrie.............


This is an earlier post from you Paul in another topic on this forum......
So my remark about a personal vendetta were not far from the truth!

And I still found it very strange that you be at the kennels of Corrie for 18 months and not saying anything to here then....If you were so concerned with the dogs I think you could have done something about it during your stay over there. If you told Corrie that you find the dogs skinny, sick or what ever she sure was reasonable enough to listen to you.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

hi, now that the price war seems to be drying up !! you may be interested to know that after 5yrs & 7 mths work & effort by my wife mandy, myself & corrie keizer after tons of paperwork, hundreds of phone calls, endless red tape, & pleading with kennel club, lynx legends puppies are all now on the working & obedience register with the kennel club of great britian, the first step to get the breed reconised in uk, we need 10 czechs in uk to get on import register, then we will put the breed up to become fully reconised in uk, we have dogs that will be imported this year to make up the numbers, it has been long hard dtruggle but worth every day, corrie has give us support from day one, without her help there would be no czechs in uk, also many thanks to robb in hollan who bred lynx, so i think it is fair to say we have made a big effort for the breed, corrie & i promoted the first czech ever at crufts, we produced the first litter in uk, the strang thing is for all our effort & work, it did not even get a mention on wolfdog.org from all the czech owners & breeders on wolfdog.org we have only recieved two private email to congratulate us on our effort, a few words of support would have been nice now & then but not to worry, hopefully next year we will be the complete attension at discover dogs at crufts standing proude with our czechoslovakian wolfdogs. best regards paul,mandy & corrie.............


This is an earlier post from you Paul in another topic on this forum......
So my remark about a personal vendetta were not far from the truth!

And I still found it very strange that you be at the kennels of Corrie for 18 months and not saying anything to here then....If you were so concerned with the dogs I think you could have done something about it during your stay over there. If you told Corrie that you find the dogs skinny, sick or what ever she sure was reasonable enough to listen to you.

hi, i see you are very observent person, yet still you ignor my posts telling why we stayed 18mths, at this time it was a pleasure to work at de louba tar with only 49 dogs, the dogs more than doubled within a 6 mth period, then it went bad, just like my post back then as you can see members havent changed still not much support from wolfdog.org,, if you call keeping dogs in these conditions, fraudulent registrations and pedigrees , farming dogs for money , exposing one of the biggist puppy mill syndicates in europe involving lots of breeders a personal vendetta then that is your choice, you seem to be very persistant person so now , yes i will give one piece of information in private email, then you will see how all i state is very true not only with conditions paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

hi, now that the price war seems to be drying up !! you may be interested to know that after 5yrs & 7 mths work & effort by my wife mandy, myself & corrie keizer after tons of paperwork, hundreds of phone calls, endless red tape, & pleading with kennel club, lynx legends puppies are all now on the working & obedience register with the kennel club of great britian, the first step to get the breed reconised in uk, we need 10 czechs in uk to get on import register, then we will put the breed up to become fully reconised in uk, we have dogs that will be imported this year to make up the numbers, it has been long hard dtruggle but worth every day, corrie has give us support from day one, without her help there would be no czechs in uk, also many thanks to robb in hollan who bred lynx, so i think it is fair to say we have made a big effort for the breed, corrie & i promoted the first czech ever at crufts, we produced the first litter in uk, the strang thing is for all our effort & work, it did not even get a mention on wolfdog.org from all the czech owners & breeders on wolfdog.org we have only recieved two private email to congratulate us on our effort, a few words of support would have been nice now & then but not to worry, hopefully next year we will be the complete attension at discover dogs at crufts standing proude with our czechoslovakian wolfdogs. best regards paul,mandy & corrie.............


This is an earlier post from you Paul in another topic on this forum......
So my remark about a personal vendetta were not far from the truth!

And I still found it very strange that you be at the kennels of Corrie for 18 months and not saying anything to here then....If you were so concerned with the dogs I think you could have done something about it during your stay over there. If you told Corrie that you find the dogs skinny, sick or what ever she sure was reasonable enough to listen to you.

hi, i see you are very observent person, yet still you ignor my posts telling why we stayed 18mths, at this time it was a pleasure to work at de louba tar with only 49 dogs, the dogs more than doubled within a 6 mth period, then it went bad, just like my post back then as you can see members havent changed still not much support from wolfdog.org,, if you call keeping dogs in these conditions, fraudulent registrations and pedigrees , farming dogs for money , exposing one of the biggist puppy mill syndicates in europe involving lots of breeders a personal vendetta then that is your choice, you seem to be very persistant person so now , yes i will give one piece of information in private email, then you will see how all i state is very true not only with conditions paul

[Joyce]

So you give a piece of information in private mail, well I am curious.
And once again I am not for breeders who do not threat their dogs well.
And yes animals should be threated well, but if I was witness to what you said you were, I have done everything in my power to stop it directly and not several years later. And you can state time after time that you need evidence and make sure that the authorities won't kill the dogs, but if a animal is in need as you said it needs help directly.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by furyos

..Rona ..sorry if yu imagine my reputation can became bad after say that y trust someone ;;;but don't remember first and second war in the pass :informing is not my mentality ...Y ' M FRENCH GUY AND PREFER FEEL FREE !!!!!Y DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE ;;;;;Y LOVE MY DOGS AND DO WHAT Y LIKE WITH THEM show /BREDD / SPORT ETC ETC .....VIVA LIBERTAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!DON'T FORGET FRENCH ARE FIRST IN REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!NO WAR FOR ME AND Y BELIEVE IN REPUBLIK MODELS AND FONDMENT(Y HATE "PROPAGANDA")...IF JUSTICE AND AUTORITY DO HIS WORK ....THEY HAVE GOOD REASONS TO DO ;;;;;;;;Y HOPE THAT IT 'S MY LAST POST NOW !!!! a lot of work in this season for me ..... TAKE CARE EVERYBODY!!!!!!!FURYOS.......

Thanks for your explanations! I understand your point now: any (French?) breeder is a free person in a free country (France?). Within this freedom every (French?) breeder may let their dogs suffer but noone should or even have the right to check their conditions or intervene in emergency. In other words: you love your dogs, but don't care about the fate of other (French?) people's dogs...

***
What a highly informative discussion this is! Real views of people and their genuine attitudes are brought out into light... So far I know one thing: I'd never buy a dog bred at Furyos kennel - I just woudn't trust him as a breeder, nor as a human.

***
I only hope that not all French breeders share such views....

[nanouk]

@ Paul

could you inform me what action has been taken .. i am a little baffled by this remark to be honoust:

i have posted my full name and address so Mrs Keizer can inform her legal representitive to deal with my allegations

why should she deal with you, persue you, obviously if you have taken actions she better deal with authorities and will be informed about that by authorities..

Further more.. you claim it is all about the dogs, correct?

Than why not make a post more like this : Louba tar kennels will shortly be shut down by authorities cause i , paul winder have taken steps that will result in and end to these outragous way of hurting and ill threating of dogs.. who will be able to take in a dog with severe trauma, no socialisation. Which vet would help castrate and nurse the dogs back to health..

IMHO that is caring for dogs, what you do now imho is trying to score some points, showing off pictures, so different from the pictures on your former website etc..

@ all, I have been to the kennels, like i stated before, seen everything, helped feed dogs ,helped clean the kennels and seen nothing that would result to me in this accusations. ( i have been there a day at a time, over the last couple yrs, not often, but often enough to have an opinion)
I saw the part where a sick dog was housed for a time, she didn't look well, very skinny ; when i returned at a later time i informed about the dog and was told about what measures had been taken etc.. i had no reason to distrust, like i still don't have!

Would I want to live that way, now that is another story, would i, in a situation where my kennels are already full take in a dog cause people don't want to keep it any more, i doubt.
I really like the type of SWH Corrie breeds, i own one, so may be "kennel blind" i care less for some of the TWd she breeds, that is opinion, but the fact that she doesn't do bonitation does not make her ill threat the dogs, that you don't like the way the dogs look doesn't mean she ill treaths them or has crossed with akita, wolf, SWD , GSD CSD or any other breed like often rumoured. (why no one has the decency to instead of rumouring taking the official way and order Raad van Beheer DNA testing is also an wonder to me)

My favorit anekdote is from a show; i was showing Macho, MY SWD , won BOB and later on was adressed by a TWD breeder who wanted tot show an interested bystander the differences between SWD and TWD. The breeder started explaining, differentiating between my boy and the other male TWD. At the end of the lecture the breeder mentioned: "but offcoarse this won't work with Louba Tar dogs, there you can't differentiate!" I just smiled and told my boy was one of those Louba tar!

And for those who have seen mal nourished dogs from Corrie at shows, did it never occur to you ,to have the present vets called in to check on the dogs and have them disq?
Friendship takes you a long way, but no judge or vet will risk his reputation if a dog is more than just skinny, and if Corrie is as stupid as to proudly ,openly show dogs in a deplorable state, shame on all of you for just standing by, talking afterwards but not taking responsibility for the health of a dog!!

[annomon]

Hi everyone,

Reading all this, I would like to go back basic: For me in general it is important that a dog looks healthy, well fed and with a nice shiny coat. When I look at the photos on this forum of the dogs from Louba Tar, I just see scraggs and bags of bones, dressed in neglected and shabby coats. If a breeder has so many dogs, in my opinion it is comparable with a cattlefarmer. The cattle is the source of income. The farmer feeds the cattle, puts them in a pen of a kennel, breed, and when a piece of cattle is no longer usefull because of age or otherwise, it goes to the butcher. The farmer doesn't see the cattle as pets, but as living tools, that you should take care of very well (at least we hope so), because it generates income. I think one shouldn't do so with dogs, but these breeders don't see it that way. I would not buy a puppy there, because I don't want a puppy from a bag of bones, and I also think it is bizar that dogs in that shape can win prices at dogshows. It is like seeing a model on the catwalk suffering from anorexia. The difference is that the dog has no choice ...