Pacino's kennel

[solowolf]

hi i have been reading these posts, we kept three of our pups from last litter two bitchs and one dog, of coarse czechoslovakian wolfdogs are little terrors thats what makes them more fun than normal type dogs, i think a lot of problems are comming from owners, possibly not enough time for pup or pups, my husband spends so many hours with the pups, he even sleeps with them a few nights when they are young, he plays as they like it very ruff,, he will spend time with all the pups playing then after few hours they will calm down, this is when he will spend about 10 minutes with each pup training them, one at a time, pups together are always up to mischief, its there nature, its the fun of owning wolfdogs, if you can not cope inform breeder its there responsability for the welfare of there pups, so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training, forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly, this is why we have only bred 2 litters in 6 yrs, its hard to get the correct type of people for this breed, often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup.we have owned big dogs, had difficult breeds,,, no these are czechoslovakian wolfdogs and are completely different , and are the best breed of dog we have ever owned, mother nature herself with a bit of dog in there,,,,,, please contact us at [email protected] we will give you help and advice but you must at all times be completely honest with any questions we ask , my husband is due home on friday please contact him, regards mrs m winder

[neesk]

Originally Posted by solowolf

so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training,

Hmm... That's rather presumptuous of you, is it not? Actually, I have a fair bit of experience with dogs, large and small, and I was simply pointing out that people (including previous posters) were not exaggerating the difficulties of bringing up these dogs. Yes, I *am* having problems with them, and they *are* turning all my expectations of training upside down - but to say that it is "obvious you can not cope" is (to be polite about it) presumptuous and arrogant. I am coping fine, thank you very much.

You know, I am repeatedly amazed on this forum that people who shout so loud about wanting to advance the breed (as all owners should), are so keen to attack newcomers - especially if those newcomers need some help. I simply wanted to know what worked for other people, to see if some of the answers could make life easier for me and my pups, and help the original poster - but I guess that was too much to ask. I guess the elitist csv 'experts' don't want anyone else to have one, since the general advice seems to be 'take them back, you can't handle them!'

Why, also, are you, Mrs Winder, so quick to assume that I am selfish?

Originally Posted by solowolf

forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly

Perhaps you are afflicted by feelings of superiority, but I honestly wanted to get CSV's to help the breed grow in this country, and hopefully get them recognised by the KC. My, my, how selfish of me.

Originally Posted by solowolf

often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup

Originally Posted by solowolf

...
please contact us at [email protected] we will give you help and advice but you must at all times be completely honest with any questions we ask , my husband is due home on friday please contact him, regards mrs m winder

Actually, no, I don't think I will. I have, in fact, already spoken to your husband, and it was he who directed me to the breeder - a fact which I appreciate. However, after speaking to him before, I was struck that he often puts himself across very poorly on forums, when in fact he is a very knowledgeable and pleasant chap on the phone. That said, having now been the focus of one 'solowolf's posts, I doubt I will deal with either of you again. Respect is hard to gain, but very easy to lose - and implying that I am a liar is a quick and easy way to do it. On that note, it is worth mentioning that it is the breeders responsibility to vet potential owners of their puppies.

For those who may be interested, our two puppies are now doing fairly well, and have started to settle in a bit better to training - though the dog is still a little on the dense side

Neesk, if you are still about (and repeated calls to give up haven't forced you to do so), I hope you are doing well with your pups. Feel free to PM or mail me, if you want, and I can tell you more about how I am coping with my 2+ a toddler.

-Malgor

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Malgor

Actually, no, I don't think I will. I have, in fact, already spoken to your husband, and it was he who directed me to the breeder - a fact which I appreciate. However, after speaking to him before, I was struck that he often puts himself across very poorly on forums, when in fact he is a very knowledgeable and pleasant chap on the phone. That said, having now been the focus of one 'solowolf's posts, I doubt I will deal with either of you again. Respect is hard to gain, but very easy to lose - and implying that I am a liar is a quick and easy way to do it. On that note, it is worth mentioning that it is the breeders responsibility to vet potential owners of their puppies.

For those who may be interested, our two puppies are now doing fairly well, and have started to settle in a bit better to training - though the dog is still a little on the dense side

Neesk, if you are still about (and repeated calls to give up haven't forced you to do so), I hope you are doing well with your pups. Feel free to PM or mail me, if you want, and I can tell you more about how I am coping with my 2+ a toddler.

-Malgor

you are very witty, lets just see how you cope, remember we and others have seen these dogs put to sleep because they did not get correct upbringing, you will learn more when these pups start to mature and loose respect, you mail worries a lot of people who are concerned for your dogs, people that have seen the results and dogs having to be destroyed. these are not ordinary dogs and dont ever think you can treat them as such you will loose, i think Andre wants to speak to you urgent why do you not answer the phone to her ?.m.winder

[solowolf]

hi i have just returned from holland last night i read the post by Malgor,,, just to let you all know, people from the club drove 900kl last night and picked the pups up, so they are now back with the breeder, we can all make mistakes homing pups but just to let you know in uk, we put it correct as soon as we learn about it, Andre is a very reasponsable breeder and has now got pups back, they have been vet checked this morning and are fine, the injuries Malgor talked about when he got the pups must have healed up super fast as no sign of lump on nose or lip were evident at vet check, as i said none of us are perfect we do on occasions make mistakes and Andre and the club have learnt from this one, but we did correct it very quickly, thank you for all your concern about the puppies regards mr r winder.
have to log in on my wifes pass as mine is not working yet again LOL ...

[neesk]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi i have just returned from holland last night i read the post by Malgor,,, just to let you all know, people from the club drove 900kl last night and picked the pups up, so they are now back with the breeder, we can all make mistakes homing pups but just to let you know in uk, we put it correct as soon as we learn about it, Andre is a very reasponsable breeder and has now got pups back, they have been vet checked this morning and are fine, the injuries Malgor talked about when he got the pups must have healed up super fast as no sign of lump on nose or lip were evident at vet check, as i said none of us are perfect we do on occasions make mistakes and Andre and the club have learnt from this one, but we did correct it very quickly, thank you for all your concern about the puppies regards mr r winder.
have to log in on my wifes pass as mine is not working yet again LOL ...

You correct mistakes quickly, huh? Perhaps you should check your facts. The simple *fact* here is that My wife and I were the victims of identity theft, and have had our lives savings wiped out - including the money which was supposed to be transfering to Andre to pay for the pups.

After two days of calls back and forward between myself and Andre (yes, those calls your wife mentioned that I, apparently, "would not answer"), we both agreed that the pups should go back to her to be rehomed elsewhere, as it could take up to 3 months before I know how much (if any) of my savings I will get back, and I could not reasonably expect Andre to wait that long. There was no sense in us both being out of pocket over this. This was not the ideal course for anyone involved, as our (Andre's and my) primary concern was always how the pups would take having to travel again - but the fact was that Andre needs to pay her bills too, so *I* chose to return the pups.

Some of the people on this site sicken me. You know, Andre said to me last night that she hoped that people on this forum, and the whole unfortunate situation with the pups, would not put me off wolfdogs - and I said that, no, it wouldn't. But I sure as hell won't stick around here for long if pratts like the Winders are going to drag my personal life in to it - and I sure as hell won't be buying wolfdogs again in the uk, as dealing (in some fashion at least) with Mr and Mrs Self-importants imaginary 'club' is relatively unavoidable.

I have to say that I wish things could have gone differently between Andre and I, but obviously she has to pay her bills, just like anyone else, and has been very sympathetic and helpful through all of this. The Winders, however, have not even been involved in any of this, and still choose to show everyone how 'clever' they are, and how good their 'club' is at sorting out 'problem owners'. [censured]

I really wish I did not have to drag my personal life out in public, but I will not accept someone implying that I was a bad owner - [censured]

As for the injuries - I am amazed that the dogs can be vet checked already, given that they only left here at 10:50 pm last night, headed for leicester - so I would be surprised if they are even back with Andre yet, never mind a vet. Also, if they really were vet checked, then I would check the vet's qualifications, as the sore in the dogs mouth is hard to miss, if you actually open his mouth. The lump on the bitches nose was pretty much gone when she left here (though the scratch had still not completely healed), but that is the point of medication! It is supposed to heal! If you are still in doubt, you may wish to ask the 'vet' to download this high-resolution image which shows the scratch and lump quite clearly http://www.aois.co.uk/IMG_2296.JPG , or this one http://www.aois.co.uk/IMG_2295.JPG, which shows a nice profile of the bitches nose (bottom, in the red collar), clearly showing the lump - I have others, if you need them, though sadly none of the dogs lip.

Thank you to those people have managed to be polite and helpful on this forum, but I honestly don't know why you bother - it seems obvious to me that the actions of those who want to make you all look like elitist, selfish morons are only going to make you look bad too.

-Malgor

[tikaani]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi i have just returned from holland last night i read the post by Malgor,,, just to let you all know, people from the club drove 900kl last night and picked the pups up, so they are now back with the breeder, we can all make mistakes homing pups but just to let you know in uk, we put it correct as soon as we learn about it, Andre is a very reasponsable breeder and has now got pups back, they have been vet checked this morning and are fine, the injuries Malgor talked about when he got the pups must have healed up super fast as no sign of lump on nose or lip were evident at vet check, as i said none of us are perfect we do on occasions make mistakes and Andre and the club have learnt from this one, but we did correct it very quickly, thank you for all your concern about the puppies regards mr r winder.
have to log in on my wifes pass as mine is not working yet again LOL ...

glad shes got the pups back, they seemed freindly and healthy when i picked mine up, which i must say is great, no diaher or any uther problems, shes freindly and not shy at all, she eats properly and goes to the toilet outside already, i have a doughter of five and she loves the pup and is already walkin her. yes the pup jumps up but at the end of the day she is a pup, but she aint that bad at that eather. i couldnt of wished for a better pup.. thanks to paul and his wife for all the help and to andre for the pup, couldnt of met nicer or more helpfull people.....

[neesk]

For those who may be interested, I just got off the phone to Andre, and the puppies are now back with her, having travelled very well. Curiously, she tells me that the pups got back to her at 10am this morning - which really makes me wonder how Paul could think that they were back and already vet checked at 8:50am?

So, please be aware, anyone who deals with Paul or Mandy Winder in future, that they are prone to... how should I put it... bending the truth, to make themselves look important.

In my book, there is nothing worse than someone who will use another's tragedy to further their own ends.