Tail

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by mijke

My knowledge of Italian language is very bad And I am to tired to visit now language translation programmes
So please, maybe you can translate this for me!

Almost the same things I said in the message with the photo of 3 dogs. Lupis as far i know is italian.

Originally Posted by mijke

At the other hand… in this topic there is also a picture I did made in a Belgium show of a CsW without any tail up! And this picture is for me the ultimate how a CsW has absolutely not to be!!!!!!!!

I think that in this thread there are 2 different topics : character of csw and shape of tail.

The dog in this photo hasn't a brave character or is not properly socialized, but in another situation the same dog could have the tail up ! Don't forget that shy dogs are shy with humans and environment that they don't know, but aren't shy with other dogs or versus known people, for example.

So the character has small to nothing influence on the shape of tail.

About shape of tail : maybe I can't explain, but for "curly" obviously I' don't mean the dogs shown by Nebulosa...OK doesn't exist any csw with tail like a malamute, on this point we all agree.

A picture can explain what I think and what I mean :



For example my Isabau at rest has a normal tail but when excited is without doubt "curly". On the other side I saw many csw that have curly tail ("hook") even at rest.
And many times the tail, looking from the back, turn to the left or to the right, as Nebulosa said.

I think (but is not a LAW ) that the preferable tail is "straight" at rest and when excited and should not go left or right.

[Mirkawolf]

You know guys, I am rather fascinated, how many posts this thread already has, on such silly topic of what the shape of the tail should be, when carried high up

It is a pity, that there is not so many responses, when the shy character of the dogs is discussed, or that owners should work with their dogs as well, instead of just dragging them around dog shows.

I can tell you one thing - I´ve been on plenty dog shows or bonitations in Czech republic, judged by experienced judges, CSW specialists. And not a single judge paid any attention to in what shape the dog carries his tail, when excited! Because it is not important thing at all... The only thing the judge penalises, is the so called "hook" on the tail, which is fault that is seen only if the dog carries its tail down calmly.

Unless the tail would be carried like in basenji, which would indeed be weird, it is of no importance and there are much more important things in the standard, that should be followed and concentrated on!

Great faults like dark eyes, loooooooong tails, looooooong ears, black masks, light heads, missing teeth or character faults like great shyness - that´s what you should discuss and try to avoid in breeding. These are important faults against the standard and they make Czechoslovakian wolfdog to look either like German shepherd in wolf-grey colours, or worse, like a shy jackal.

[furyos]

hi mirka we never say that .... it s not the biggest default in the breed but it 's not really nice and it 's shame when this position is like that ...give an opinion is not a scandal ..not?about this caracteristic is necessary talk about ...that'all ..best regards ... frank

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi mirka we never say that .... it s not the biggest default in the breed but it 's not really nice and it 's shame when this position is like that ...give an opinion is not a scandal ..not?about this caracteristic is necessary talk about ...that'all ..best regards ... frank

It´s a shame? No it isn´t. This is a shame:


Dog scared because person is approaching? Shame!

[IMG]http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l72/Mirkawolf/DSC_0132.jpg/IMG]
The same dog - what a horror, he is being measured!


On a dog show ... group of wolfdogs trying to avoid a stranger
touching them - only they have no place left to escape. What a shame and bad reputation for the breed!


And what to say about this unfortunate shy sack of bones?

Now you of course can say, that every one of us have different opinion on what is shame, when looking at wolfdogs. Well, this is how I see it.

Sorry for the white around the pics, I don´t have better program here at work to crop (and I wanted to cut out the breeders/owners from the pics).

I am affraid we are again off topic

[Mirkawolf]

The pic that did not show up in the previous post..



The same dog - what a horror, he is being measured!

[Navarre]

Mirka, I understand what you said, but i think that the pictures of bonitace that you put on don't say nothing: even dogs with good character (but not trained for this) in this situation can put the tail under the belly.

We saw this at the last bonitace in Italy : absolutely friendly and self confident dogs (especially females) in this new situation put the tail sometimes down. Don't forget that for many of these dogs the most similar situation that they lived was with...the scary veterinary !!!

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Navarre

Mirka, I understand what you said, but i think that the pictures of bonitace that you put on don't say nothing: even dogs with good character (but not trained for this) in this situation can put the tail under the belly.
We saw this at the last bonitace in Italy : absolutely friendly and self confident dogs (especially females) in this new situation put the tail sometimes down. Don't forget that for many of these dogs the most similar situation that they lived was with...the scary veterinary !!!

I´d maybe agree with this, if I was not present on the bonitation and just saw the pictures. However, I was there and had a chance to observe this (and other dogs) for the whole time of the bonitation, not only when they were measured or even worse, character tested.
And this dog (and some others) were really absolutely scared out of their mind, if anyone would look at them, approach them or try to manipulate them.
I do not call such dogs friendly and confident, but shy and badly socialised.

If a dog is not socialised well and not confident, this will always show up, no matter what the situation is. And opposite, if a dog is self-confident and well socialised, it can handle well even unknown and stressful situations.

Therefore, I will keep my opinion, that shy and unsocialised dog is a shame of its breeder and owner, and creates bad reputation for the breed much more, than a dog with tail up this way or that way