Differences in bonitations...

[Huan]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Przemek was it who cancelled every one of my statements.

I don't remember myself removing your posts recently.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I was wondering too, a 64 cm male got P 1. But, I am in breeing for Briards - Berger de Brie - french herdings dogs for 10 years. And there it is possible and no fault, if a female or male dog is 1 cm less or more in hight as the standard says, if everything else is without faults.

I especially took a look at Briards standard and it is more strict than that of CzW. It's openly written that going below minimum is disqulification. In CzW standard there is no such sentence. It's just some people's interpretation - stop people overinterpret the stanrdard and don't say things that are not included in it. Going below minimum is a fault - TRUE. Going below minimum is disqualification - THAT IS OVER-INTERPRETING. No such sentence exists in the breed standard. Just that it is a fault since the standard says it's below minimum. If you want it to be strict change the standard. An example from Briards standard: "

  
SIZE: 0,62 m to 0,68 m for males.
0.56 m to 0,64 m for females.
The length of the body must be more important than the height at shoulders.  The general appearance of the Briard is rangy.
Penalization: Cobby dog : no Excellent.  Sizes superior to 0,68 m and 0,64 m.
Disqualification: Below the minimum.  More than 2 cm above the maximum size.

Nice and clear but... this is a quote from Briard standard.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Przemek

In CzW standard there is no such sentence. It's just some people's interpretation - stop people overinterpret the stanrdard and don't say things that are not included in it. Going below minimum is a fault - TRUE. Going below minimum is disqualification - THAT IS OVER-INTERPRETING. No such sentence exists in the breed standard. Just that it is a fault since the standard says it's below minimum. If you want it to be strict change the standard.

It happens that in the book "Ceskoslovensky vlcak", that I have here on my table, and which was written by Ing.Karel Hartl, founder of the breed, and Ing. Jindrich Jedlicka, former head advisor of the breed in CR, it says clearly, that: "Nonstandard size (insufficient height in withers) is disqualifying fault."
The standard does not need to be changed. What has to be done, is this book getting finally translated, so people stop cheating.
I don´t think that anyone would question the words of the very founder of the breed as to what is standard or not in the breed.

[Mirkawolf]

I apologise to other users here on WD for this discussion. But as I was publicly attacked here, it has to publicly end here.

My dear Margo, I have a nerve indeed. I have also patience and I have some honour, and I will defend it against your public accusations.

FIRST - I never started topic with attacks on your kennel - read the question again. I have never mentioned the name of the dog, neither the kennel nor you. But you immediately attacked me and threw accusations, which are not based on any facts and you know it. I will remind you:

- You accused me of breeding on dogs with serious disqualifying faults. That is not true and anyone can check it out - the bonitation codes of both my females are presented here on Wolfdog.org, as well as on my own website and I can proove their correctness anytime. Just for records, my dogs were bonitated by recognised experts Sona Bognarova and Monika Soukupova.

- You accused me of hiding things - not sure what you mean, probably anything from who killed J.F.K. to dysplasia of my dog. Again - these are pure accusations with a goal to throw dirt on me. HD results of my older female are online both here and on my own website and written down in Cira´s pedigree.

Ali has heavy HD, which I know from her 9 months of age and I was never breeding with her and never will. The HD result is not displayed anywhere, simply because she was x-rayed before the age required for official HD result. Ali´s state and problems are known not only to the Czech breeding commitee, my friends, the local CSW Club in Belgium, but also to Sona Bognarova, who bonitated her. And indeed, on my own website is article in two languages about the hydrotherapy that I did with my Ali. The hydrotherapy was recommended to us by Veterinary clinic in Liege and it did wonders to her movement and health. I invite everyone to come and read about Ali here.

So, Margo, at the end of the day, let me borrow your own words - "if you have nothing bad to hide you should be not afraid of any critique because you can explain everything." I also think you should "be prepared you have also to answer some problematic questions..."

I give you one last chance – you have publicly accused me of breeding on dogs with disqualifying faults. This is a fact which can be verified to be false. So either withdraw publicly your accusations and apologize, or face the consequences. It is your choice. Nobody can accuse other people publicly without having hard facts and think he will get away with it. Not even you, the law is the same for everybody. And please, don´t bother erasing this topic or posts. The whole topic has been already saved by several people ready to bear witness to the fact, changing things now would only be seen as a means of hiding evidence. The evidence of what you said will not go away.

[jasmine]

Dear Mirka,

This case, what happened with you, were happaned with anybody else in the past several times....................you must know.....you have never read any appologize in this page...................
A lot of breeders, owners were blaming in the open forums.............and it is a shame that this could happened..............but you know as well that this page is not objective....and till somebody couldn't see over her own aims (money, influence,etc) till it will continuing......fauls datas in the page...(of course bad datas and you couldn't ask corrections), wrong pictures and topics which try to cause bad reputation to some breeders, owners, dogs.............

Edit

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

It happens that in the book "Ceskoslovensky vlcak", that I have here on my table, and which was written by Ing.Karel Hartl, founder of the breed, and Ing. Jindrich Jedlicka, former head advisor of the breed in CR, it says clearly, that: "Nonstandard size (insufficient height in withers) is disqualifying fault."
The standard does not need to be changed. What has to be done, is this book getting finally translated, so people stop cheating.
I don´t think that anyone would question the words of the very founder of the breed as to what is standard or not in the breed.

A book, no matter who wrote it, is no standard. The FCI-Standard says no such thing. Obviously Oskar Dora thinks different who is a very experienced judge and still member of the Club Comitee of the Patronage Country.

Ina

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

I apologise to other users here on WD for this discussion. But as I was publicly attacked here, it has to publicly end here.


My dear Margo, I have a nerve indeed. I have also patience and I have some honour, and I will defend it against your public accusations.

DEFEND Mirka, you wrote nice long email - English language is not a problem for you so please READ YOUR OWN WORDS again!!!

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

I am a bit puzzled by the bonitation results from Pozna. How can a male dog with 64cm in withers be bonitated and claimed breedable? That is a major fault against standard.
Or is there a different standard for CSW in Poland?

This weekend I was on the club dog show and bonitation in Germany. EVERYBODY was speaking about "this dog" - what's going on and why YOU say the owners can not breed with him. MIRKA, you SERIOUSLY was bad to Daimon.... The damages you have done will be NEVER undone. And everything only because you find it the good way to attack us...
You are not a beginner who can say you have no idea about the breed and rules - no, you exactly knew you words are not true but you wrote them. You knowingly and intentionally was bad for this dog and destroyed the dog as stud dog. And the DOG and his OWNERS are the ONLY victims here....

WHO and WHAT give you the right to write the dog is not BREEDABLE????? He has breeding rights according the polish rules and now he also PASSED the bonitation required in Slovakia with the "very goog" note. The bonitation was made by SLOVAK judge (VERY FAMOUS AND EXPERIENCED ONE). It was made according the SLOVAKIAN RULES. In the breeding comittee were 2 judges (one from Slovakia and one from Lithuania) and former member of the Czech breeding comittee. HOW CAN YOU sneer at "different standard for CSW in Poland" when the bonitation had NOTHING to do with ANY polish rules... WHAT GIVES YOU THE REASON TO ACCUSE THIS DOG????? He was P14? NO!!!

Mirka, I never solved ANY problems and ANYTHING what was has to do with dogs on the way you suggest but I say you I will not write ANY apology to you - the only person which need them are the owners of Daimon... And they need them from you...!

If you do not understand what you have done.... hmmmm.... I have only two solutions... it will be your choice...

OR you start to disscuss like all other people on the normal way and not "I can attack everybody but when someone says something against me I will scream and threaten the person with court"....

....
OR you choose your way. In the case you will try to fulfil your threats the owners of Daimon will make the same against you... Please speak with Jesus about the it - I hope as the "cool head" he will explain it to you what it means and what will be the consequences....
In this case we will also say "good bye" to you on the forum and Wolfdog.org - I really do not want to have here ANYONE ho is behaving like this... I have enough of people who think they are the untachable VIPs which can attack ANYBODY and NOBODY can touch them.... If you are not able to make normal discussion it is DFEFINITELY not a forum for you (or people like you).

It is end of the disscusion between me and you to this topic...