Dwarfism test for CSW?

[nanouk]

did you guys know that the NVSWH, the original breedclub in the netherlands does the same as some do here?
point fingers to TWD, say possible dwarfism only appaers in the SWDlines outside their protected breeding program and derives not from GS but from TWD

Malamute in saarloos population? nice rumours.. why mention this in this diskussion, when it is , thanks to gen research, more than obvious that the gen responsible for dwarfism in SWD is the similair one as in GS, not as in malamute

[Hanka]

Sorry. My writting about malamute was only "case", not really meaning. But as I know, was much discussions about "brown colour" in thear population. Some people told, there was some siberian husky. Mrs.Saarlos told NO. But from what is brown colour in this breed?
It must be some similar breed.

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Sorry. My writting about malamute was only "case", not really meaning. But as I know, was much discussions about "brown colour" in thear population. Some people told, there was some siberian husky. Mrs.Saarlos told NO. But from what is brown colour in this breed?
It must be some similar breed.

off topic, but did you know that in some rare cases, the brown, with liver nose, also is present in gs



Perhaps not the best of pictures, but a very plausible explanation for brown in SWD.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

CzW have a high amount of GSD, why the breed would be immune to the GSD problems?
of course without the same intensity because the different morphologic selection made in CzW, but every genetic problem wich appear in GSD must call our attention too, principally when it envolve working lines.
Hearth diseases, Cryptorchidism, Hip Displasy, Elbows Displasy, Demodex cannis, malignal brian cancer in young, in a breed with such poor genetic pool like CzW, any cases of illness must call our attention

even if it was only one, the breed not need to be mixed for show problems that before not appear, with such genetic pool, is only a time question for more and more hiden illness appear in pure breed dogs, that not mean that mixes will be more healty than pure dogs.

Of course yes, one CzW dwarf survive that means probably much others die before 1 week with this problem.

Thanks for your support
And of course mixes will never be more healthy!! (and they also can spread (not always direct visible) the health problems of 2 breeds!)

In GSD breed breeders were also denying health problems for years…..
Even when people did know there were dwarfs born, a lot of breeders were only blaming the breeders who did have a dwarf in their litter…

But thanks to a few honest breeders who did a lot of work without blaming others or mention names (for example they did collect for years blood examples of carriers of the mutated gen for investigation on university) now there is a test for this mutated gen for GSD and Saarloos.

But even when there is only one dwarf in CsW, it needs our attention!
For me it is not interesting on this moment who was the breeder or the line of this dog!

My only point is: to find owners of dogs who are proven carriers of the mutated gen for dwarfism in CsW breed to valid the test!
And only to find out if the test is also usable for CsW breed.

Originally Posted by Angelika

Maybe I´m wrong but for one (?) SWD dwarf and maybe one CSW dwarf it´s a great effort to test the whole breeds Dysplasia or epilepsy appear much more important to me.

I don’t ask anybody to do test, because there is yet no test!!!And even when the test seems (in future) to be also valid for CsW, it is the choice of owners/breeders to test!

In Holland it is also not obligated for saarloos breeders to do the test. But I am glad for the future of the breed that a more owners and breeders are testing now before breeding.

And as you can read (on the English site link) the official breed club NVSW is still denying and telling this gen is not in their lines… But of course they do not want to do tests to prove it.

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, but first we can try to find if some family or line has this problem. My personal meaning in this moment is: it can be from some saarlos what was used in csw breeding.

Yes, it can be from GS, of course. But I think no, because here we don´t know some case of it. And in czech are only pure breed csw. If was some case by saarols breed, My personal meaning is- it can be in some "not so much clean" breeding. .

Before the test was available for Saarloos, a lot of people were only blaming some specific blood lines… And after the test it was surprising for some people that it was not only in those lines…

As I said before it is on this moment NOT interesting or useful to talk about lines, before we know if the test is valid for CsW.

I did have a lot of contact with the genetic specialists and I can tell you that they believe that the mutated gen comes from GSD. I did discuss with them these kind of opinions, but they are not convinced at all that it is coming from saarloos incross.

But believe me, when there is more info I’ll inform you !

[Angelika]

It took a bit longer, but finally I´ve got it. Thanks to all of you for your explanations

[elf]

To give some figures, last figures i got after the test was available:
36 SWD tested, 28 free, 7 carriers and 1 dwarf

Close relatives were tested in this panel, which would maybe explain a part of this very dark stat.

Dysplasia is pretty difficult to make control using genetic tests because none know really all gens wich cause the problem, it's still in studie and be poligenic turn things more difficult

A major gene seems to be involved, when QTL will be refined we would hopefully see better.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Anyway it does not matter where it comes from, what they need to invent a test for CSW is blood of a dwarf to find out if it is the same gene as in GSH and SWH and if the same test can be used or if they need to invent a second one. When there is a test you can find out where it occures in the lines.

It may come from crossing with Saarloos because of the different GSHs used in this breed but this doesn´t matter at all in the moment and only matters to find gene-carriers in the future. Not all GSH are automatically carriers.
Maybe it would be another possibility to get samples to test died puppies.

The HD-Test showed that there are a lot of carriers even in breeds that don´t have any HD-problems in their population, like Mallinois and Sight-dogs. This makes me a little bit sceptical how to use it at this point. New Tests on complex deseases like HD (that is not compareable with dwarfism in this point) allways include the danger of mistakes in the beginning and should be carefully used on populations with small gene-pools because they may wrongly decrease the pool. It seems to me that there has to be more research done how to do the management in breeding with this test.

Ina

[saschia]

Hi all,

I agree that it would be very good to have a genetic test. As a former and future breeder, I would like to know if my bitch is a carrier, and know the genetic background of her partner, to make sure that I don't spread things further. And, as it is a recessive malady, carrying the gene does not necessarily remove the dog from breeding - it only suggests to test the puppies and prefer selling positive ones to people who are not interested in breeding! If a positive dog is paired with negative, only 1/4 of it's puppies will probably carry the gene and even pairing two carriers should give around 1/4 of negative pups! I think it is much better to know that there is this problem than not knowing why your bitch lost part of the litter... If we know, we can solve it...