Litters with unknow HD-results: should be removed or not?

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Rona

I don't know how others, but I'd definitely prefer to buy a pup of the unbonited or imperfect but friendly CSV parents of stable characters than of the beautiful P1 'green' aggressive superchampion.

I think AGAIN we are loosing the real spirit of what is being suggested.
There is no JUDGEMENT on Studs, Bitches or Litter.
It is just MORE direct information to users of this site.
Nobody said that the "green" Group A litter is better than the "red" group C one... just that on the Group A you have more direct information than the group C.
I think this has been already explained in other posts but it seems not to be clear enough.

From my point of view I have written even too much so I will no longer write anything on this thread.
Massimo

[Rona]

Originally Posted by massimo

I think AGAIN we are loosing the real spirit of what is being suggested.
There is no JUDGEMENT on Studs, Bitches or Litter.
It is just MORE direct information to users of this site.
Nobody said that the "green" Group A litter is better than the "red" group C one... just that on the Group A you have more direct information than the group C.
I think this has been already explained in other posts but it seems not to be clear enough.
Massimo

1. First of all - I'm not a breeder, I don't intend to be. I didn't even vote on the poll since I have no opinion.
2. I do understand the proposed system.
3. I'm not against the system in principle, but I'm trying to anticipate the effects it'd bring - remember that intensions are one thing, and the results of its implementations - another. Lenin also meant well (not that I compare Massimo to Lenin )

The danger is, that however hard you'd try to convince potential owners that a 'yellow litter' is OK according to legal regulations in many countries that do not require bonitation (X-raying is another issue because it's available everywhere) most of them will try to purchase a pup from a "green" list. It may result in:
1. Much higher prices of "green" litters
2. More 'result lifting' at bonitations
3. Even more ill feelings among breeders (gossiping to downgrade the greenness of the litters)
4. disappointment of the buyers (I bought a pup from a green litter, paid a fortune for it and it has faults)

In fact introduction of the system would promote Czech national regulations concerning breeding. But why not base it on the Slovakian or German ones and additionally require "running exams" and ED results- and mark the dogs that have those?

You may try to explain again and again on WD or wherever what the colours mean and what the intentions were, but HOW the new owners will understand it - is a completley different matter.

I have no idea how to improve it and I don't propose anything, but I believe it's good to look at such a proposal from various sides before any final decisions are made.

[Mikael]

To Rona

I think the intensions are to make the CsV healty and more standard like.
And I think it will be more easy fore the buyers to buy the dog they wont.

And hopefully thanks to this system, there will only be A and B breeders in the future

But even if you buy from A and B it is not a 100% guarantee,
but the chance to get a healty pup is mush bigger.

This is not about the breeders or there gossip, or even money...
It is about the breed !!! and a way to provent unnecessary suffering fore the dogs !!!

Best regards / Mikael

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mikael

To Rona

I think the intensions are to make the CsV healty and more standard like.
And I think it will be more easy fore the buyers to buy the dog they wont.

And hopefully thanks to this system, there will only be A and B breeders in the future

But even if you buy from A and B it is not a 100% guarantee,
but the chance to get a healty pup is mush bigger.

This is not about the breeders or there gossip, or even money...
It is about the breed !!! and a way to provent unnecessary suffering fore the dogs !!!

Best regards / Mikael

To Mikael,
I'm afraid you didn't read my post carefully

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

To Mikael,
I'm afraid you didn't read my post carefully

OK, Sorry I will try to read and understand better in the future

Regards / Mikael

[Nebelwölfe]

Originally Posted by massimo

There is no JUDGEMENT on Studs, Bitches or Litter.
It is just MORE direct information to users of this site.
Nobody said that the "green" Group A litter is better than the "red" group C one... just that on the Group A you have more direct information than the group C.

The litter ads should be divided in group A, B and C - depending on if the parents do have HD results and/or bonitation or not - and this should not be a judgement. How real is it, that interested buyers as well as breeders do not assum it as judgement? If dividing litter ads up in groups are not supposed to tell, if a litter is "better" or a breeder ist more responsible than the other - e.g. because the parents in A group are x-rayed and in C group are not - so what sense does it make, to divide them up at all?? Wouldn't the chance be very high, that a grouping would give a "wrong" picture, since the mating with e.g. one or two "bad" bonitated dogs seems to be "better" as a mating, in which maybe only one dog is bonitated - but the breeder knows about the other dog very good?

If database is kept actual - all informations about HD results and bonitation of parents can be found in the litter ads with one click...

[Rona]

Originally Posted by littlepeet

The litter ads should be divided in group A, B and C - depending on if the parents do have HD results and/or bonitation or not - and this should not be a judgement. How real is it, that interested buyers as well as breeders do not assum it as judgement?

This is exactly the point I made earlier! Those, who want to introduce the system may not intend or mean any judgements, but how realistic it is that the potential owners/buyers/ other breeders will not make them anyway...

Although the system seems very rational from the "founders'" point of view, I'm not sure it will bring the required results. The 'red litters' will probably dissapear from WD but it doesn't mean that they won't occur.... In the long run there will be even less information on what is happening to the breed than now.

As I said - this is not my problem, I'm only trying to act devil's advocate