Crying Wolf - kennel

elf · 11-12-2008, 14:05

No shame here, please stop this king of insinuation. Reading old messages written by John Slawek to know more about him ? I see no problem. As I told you and show you in de la Louve Blanche thread I don't need any artefact to tell straight people what I want.

The only shame I see here, is the problem you have answering clearly questions about your way of breeding, especillay the way you breed regarding HD. I told in the other thread the way HD allele propagate into the breed. A more adult and serious approach from you would be to explain why you mate dogs with so much bad HD pedigree ? With which statistical results ? Or to tell if you made some changes meanwhile, why, and how ? Why you make mating around 20% consanguinity on 5 gen whereas the time is to take care of diversity in the breed ? The answers you would provide can be useful for anyone, so please stop your childish attitude putting the head on the floor or escaping behind lame answers. It's early time for the breed to think about health first. I can already tell you that the number of disease will increase rather fast, especially heart side. No more for me.

Hi Christian, I know not bad wolfdogs and always asks people when I don't know something (especially Nicole Wilde I consider as one of the very best for wolfdogs), I can tell you 6 weeks is to early (if you need reference about this send me a PM I would send you scientist publications about it), this often leads to hyperactivity trouble (if all is nice with your Myla it's all good, but one cannot expect it's the rule for pups separated the age of 6 weeks for the mother). Wolfdogs the age of 8 weeks have no problem to make strong bond with the owner, and this give 4 more weeks for the owner to make efficient socialisation. All this phase correspond of well know cognitive development.

jasmine · 11-12-2008, 14:16

I'm just wondering why do you think that the hd results on the wolfdog database are correct and complete????? I must tell you it is not correct and not complete!!!Moreover we have very strict examination,and maybe I could bring my dogs to some other countries for better results.......but I won't do that!
About my attitude: those who know me they know I'm very direct person...not hide behinde the curtain..and I'm very critical especial my own dogs...but..I'm so sorry elf...I think not you are the right person who could tell me what should I do:
my results and satisfied owner of my dogs are justify me.
If you wouldn't minde I would stop this usless communication with you!

elf · 11-12-2008, 14:51

It's your choice I have no problem about it. But open talk is always better. You know I'm from research world and talk are often rather shaking-hard because people don't often agree. It's not a problem because at the end everyone learn from everyone, so everybody is winning.

martiou07 · 11-12-2008, 15:12

hello Mrs Molnar, therefore after what I include/understand, the results of dysplasy concerning your dogs are erroneous?
all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it
on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages??
I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that :

ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....%
Rubin/Blue = 19.43....%
Flash/Issar = 20.50...%
Galiba/flash = 16.06....%
........ i decree there because there is much of it

thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest….

elf · 11-12-2008, 15:27

At some point consanguinity is need BUT...

- Regarding the genetic pool for the CsV we are already rather far (indeed I personnaly don't know how long the breed can survive without new wolf blood, it really can (as there are enough) but only with an international agreement on CsV breeding scheme, but it's another question...).

- Consanguinity for fixing a type ? It not absolutely needed, there are other breeding ways.

- It as already be proven that high consanguinity:
-- leads to rise up genetic diseases (as 3/4 of dogs genetic diseases propagate thought autosomal recessive scheme)
-- leads to shorter life, in some breeds consanguinity between 8% and 20% reduce the life of 4 years.

So a deep care to this point must be done by future breeders.

furyos · 11-12-2008, 15:35

HUMMMMM........................................... ........................................

:sh ock:

......................... ........................................Edit please .....yu can just note one thing ..... JALOUSY ........ that's all ...... this guys have common dogs and nothing exceptionnal .... that IS THE REAL problem ..... nothing else ..... when yu have not a pure CSW(mix beetween white german shepherd) or a common csw (no title ).. what yu do ? yu try to find something wrong in the best ..... good reflexions ..... f

martiou07 · 11-12-2008, 15:47

Furyos, I put questions with the person who dictates you what to make, like you n' ace never could answer it, I require of him. D' as much more than you do not reproduce anything d' other that its work in l' together. As regards d' a not titrated bitch, and then?? you n' ace not included/understood that is not a dog is not titrated; it should not reproduce, and especially that the titles n' bring anything to its puppies, put aside as in your case, to sell pups more easily
jealousy, certainly not, like I t' already, I made include/understand do not see any interest for ego d' to have a dog of the style of the cryingwolf, thanks to you let us be invaded we by it in France, nothing good interesting for the control of l' breeding of the dog wolf in France….finally this is another subject. thus thank you Furyos not to intervene more in a discution but you n' do not be able to include/understand

to return from there to my question Mrs Molnar, this one n' no back has thought, I just make a point of including/understanding what pushes you to do that

elf · 11-12-2008, 16:01

Very funny Frank it's exactly what Edit said to Margo in this thread: jealousy: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...?t=9341&page=4

It's the only answer people can find when they have not the ability to answer breeding scheme questions (consanguinity, HD ...). In fact in this thread we have two more answers: 1) the database is false and 2) Hungary has the stricter HD examination. We won't have any real answers, that's all.

11-12-2008, 15:12	#4
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	hello Mrs Molnar, therefore after what I include/understand, the results of dysplasy concerning your dogs are erroneous? all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages?? I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that : ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....% Rubin/Blue = 19.43....% Flash/Issar = 20.50...% Galiba/flash = 16.06....% ........ i decree there because there is much of it thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest…. __________________

11-12-2008, 15:35	#6
furyos Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 729	HUMMMMM........................................... ........................................:sh ock:......................... ........................................Edit please .....yu can just note one thing ..... JALOUSY ........ that's all ...... this guys have common dogs and nothing exceptionnal .... that IS THE REAL problem ..... nothing else ..... when yu have not a pure CSW(mix beetween white german shepherd) or a common csw (no title ).. what yu do ? yu try to find something wrong in the best ..... good reflexions ..... f

11-12-2008, 15:47	#7
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	Furyos, I put questions with the person who dictates you what to make, like you n' ace never could answer it, I require of him. D' as much more than you do not reproduce anything d' other that its work in l' together. As regards d' a not titrated bitch, and then?? you n' ace not included/understood that is not a dog is not titrated; it should not reproduce, and especially that the titles n' bring anything to its puppies, put aside as in your case, to sell pups more easily jealousy, certainly not, like I t' already, I made include/understand do not see any interest for ego d' to have a dog of the style of the cryingwolf, thanks to you let us be invaded we by it in France, nothing good interesting for the control of l' breeding of the dog wolf in France….finally this is another subject. thus thank you Furyos not to intervene more in a discution but you n' do not be able to include/understand to return from there to my question Mrs Molnar, this one n' no back has thought, I just make a point of including/understanding what pushes you to do that __________________ Last edited by martiou07; 11-12-2008 at 15:58.

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11-12-2008, 14:05	#1
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	No shame here, please stop this king of insinuation. Reading old messages written by John Slawek to know more about him ? I see no problem. As I told you and show you in de la Louve Blanche thread I don't need any artefact to tell straight people what I want. The only shame I see here, is the problem you have answering clearly questions about your way of breeding, especillay the way you breed regarding HD. I told in the other thread the way HD allele propagate into the breed. A more adult and serious approach from you would be to explain why you mate dogs with so much bad HD pedigree ? With which statistical results ? Or to tell if you made some changes meanwhile, why, and how ? Why you make mating around 20% consanguinity on 5 gen whereas the time is to take care of diversity in the breed ? The answers you would provide can be useful for anyone, so please stop your childish attitude putting the head on the floor or escaping behind lame answers. It's early time for the breed to think about health first. I can already tell you that the number of disease will increase rather fast, especially heart side. No more for me. Hi Christian, I know not bad wolfdogs and always asks people when I don't know something (especially Nicole Wilde I consider as one of the very best for wolfdogs), I can tell you 6 weeks is to early (if you need reference about this send me a PM I would send you scientist publications about it), this often leads to hyperactivity trouble (if all is nice with your Myla it's all good, but one cannot expect it's the rule for pups separated the age of 6 weeks for the mother). Wolfdogs the age of 8 weeks have no problem to make strong bond with the owner, and this give 4 more weeks for the owner to make efficient socialisation. All this phase correspond of well know cognitive development.

11-12-2008, 14:16	#2
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	I'm just wondering why do you think that the hd results on the wolfdog database are correct and complete????? I must tell you it is not correct and not complete!!!Moreover we have very strict examination,and maybe I could bring my dogs to some other countries for better results.......but I won't do that! About my attitude: those who know me they know I'm very direct person...not hide behinde the curtain..and I'm very critical especial my own dogs...but..I'm so sorry elf...I think not you are the right person who could tell me what should I do: my results and satisfied owner of my dogs are justify me. If you wouldn't minde I would stop this usless communication with you!

11-12-2008, 14:51	#3
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	It's your choice I have no problem about it. But open talk is always better. You know I'm from research world and talk are often rather shaking-hard because people don't often agree. It's not a problem because at the end everyone learn from everyone, so everybody is winning.

11-12-2008, 15:27	#5
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	At some point consanguinity is need BUT... - Regarding the genetic pool for the CsV we are already rather far (indeed I personnaly don't know how long the breed can survive without new wolf blood, it really can (as there are enough) but only with an international agreement on CsV breeding scheme, but it's another question...). - Consanguinity for fixing a type ? It not absolutely needed, there are other breeding ways. - It as already be proven that high consanguinity: -- leads to rise up genetic diseases (as 3/4 of dogs genetic diseases propagate thought autosomal recessive scheme) -- leads to shorter life, in some breeds consanguinity between 8% and 20% reduce the life of 4 years. So a deep care to this point must be done by future breeders.

11-12-2008, 16:01	#8
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Very funny Frank it's exactly what Edit said to Margo in this thread: jealousy: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...?t=9341&page=4 It's the only answer people can find when they have not the ability to answer breeding scheme questions (consanguinity, HD ...). In fact in this thread we have two more answers: 1) the database is false and 2) Hungary has the stricter HD examination. We won't have any real answers, that's all.