Italian bonitations

[Jimma]

Originally Posted by Mikael

I can not say to mush about the Italian nor the tests in SL or CZ

But this is the MH-test ( Mental Health test) you MUST do whit your CsV before breeding in Sweden...No MH test, No pedigree for your puppies…

There is no Bonitation. (Only) MH test requirement and DNA test to prove the parents of the puppies.

www*youtube*com/watch?v=Am35v-2TURs
www*youtube*com/watch?v=3PQZVQlu62o
www*youtube*com/watch?v=2iCinQ6HKnQ
www*youtube*com/watch?v=tP2tI6d8g88
www*youtube*com/watch?v=G8Ope_lNLGk
www*youtube*com/watch?v=YdMhrMNmPYg


EDIT---

If you want that the links works, its only substitue the red starts * for points .

I´m afraid you are now wrong Mikael. The MH stands for Mentally Dog and is only a DESCRIPTION of the dogs reactions. Its NOT a TEST in any way!! Your dog does not even have to go trough with the description to be declared deskribed. Only if the owner decides to quit the test or if the dog shows fear at the moment with the gunshot the dog is declared not correkt MH and is not allowed for breeding. If the describer decides to break the description the dog is still to be declared described. Every breeding club make up they own spiderdiagram that is supposed to help breeders to see where in the spider the dog they want to use in breeding has its instincts. Every breed has its own spider that shows what is WANTED in the breed so you can compare with your breedingdogs results but also what the dog leaves to the puppies. ( when the puppies goes for their MH) An exampel of this spider for collie http://www.vilda-meduza.se/index_a_kullens_spindel.htm. (We dont have this spider for CsV because we dont have a breedingclub yet to work one out.)

In the Swedish workingdogclub they also got an more advanced TEST that is called Mental Test ( MT) and when the dog either has "very good" in dog show or a exterior description from a showjudge AND got an approved Mental Test the dog got the titel "Korad". This Mental test is for the breeds connected to Swedish workingdogclub ONLY!! And they refused the question from SKK of connecting CsV to them...

// Jimma

[davide.c]

@ woland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6NVx...layer_embedded

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Jimma

I´m afraid you are now wrong Mikael. The MH stands for Mentally Dog and is only a DESCRIPTION of the dogs reactions. Its NOT a TEST in any way!! Your dog does not even have to go trough with the description to be declared deskribed. Only if the owner decides to quit the test or if the dog shows fear at the moment with the gunshot the dog is declared not correkt MH and is not allowed for breeding. If the describer decides to break the description the dog is still to be declared described. Every breeding club make up they own spiderdiagram that is supposed to help breeders to see where in the spider the dog they want to use in breeding has its instincts. Every breed has its own spider that shows what is WANTED in the breed so you can compare with your breedingdogs results but also what the dog leaves to the puppies. ( when the puppies goes for their MH) An exampel of this spider for collie http://www.vilda-meduza.se/index_a_kullens_spindel.htm. (We dont have this spider for CsV because we dont have a breedingclub yet to work one out.)

In the Swedish workingdogclub they also got an more advanced TEST that is called Mental Test ( MT) and when the dog either has "very good" in dog show or a exterior description from a showjudge AND got an approved Mental Test the dog got the titel "Korad". This Mental test is for the breeds connected to Swedish workingdogclub ONLY!! And they refused the question from SKK of connecting CsV to them...

// Jimma

Hmmmm

Skk decided Saarloos and CsV must do this (test) before breeding, as they are WOLF dogs and not just dogs... it has nothing to do whit if they are workingdogs or not on this breeds...

CsV and Saarloos is under Swedish kennel club and not Swedish Working dog club, yes I know... but last I did her it is still a requirement for both Saarloos and CsV to do this (test)... has anything change ??? As the Working dog club did say NO we do not wont CsV as a Working breed in Sweden yet ( or ever)

I do not understand all you did wrote, but I know one do not have to pass whit a good result to be permitted to breed, you just have to show up and do your best on this (test) and get a result, good or bad...

OK, it is not called (Mental Health test) in English, it is called Mentally dog, but to me it still luck like a test of mentality and you get a result that your puppy buyers might wont to se, or am I wrong ???

I do hope it is still a demand for breeding of CsV, but yes I understand if they will take it away as a demand on Saarloos, but the first litter of Saaroos born this year in Sweden parents had to do it, to get there pedigrees from Skk.
Please correct me if I’m wrong or has misunderstand anything

Yes we do not have a specific MH (test) for CsV yet, I think we must do the GSD (test) ?

Very best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

EDIT---

If you want that the links works, its only substitue the red starts * for points .

No problems, thanks for your help Nebulosa

Best regards / Mikael

[Jimma]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Hmmmm

Skk decided Saarloos and CsV must do this (test) before breeding, as they are WOLF dogs and not just dogs... it has nothing to do whit if they are workingdogs or not on this breeds...

CsV and Saarloos is under Swedish kennel club and not Swedish Working dog club, yes I know... but last I did her it is still a requirement for both Saarloos and CsV to do this (test)... has anything change ??? As the Working dog club did say NO we do not wont CsV as a Working breed in Sweden yet ( or ever)

I do not understand all you did wrote, but I know one do not have to pass whit a good result to be permitted to breed, you just have to show up and do your best on this (test) and get a result, good or bad...

OK, it is not called (Mental Health test) in English, it is called Mentally dog, but to me it still luck like a test of mentality and you get a result that your puppy buyers might wont to se, or am I wrong ???

I do hope it is still a demand for breeding of CsV, but yes I understand if they will take it away as a demand on Saarloos, but the first litter of Saaroos born this year in Sweden parents had to do it, to get there pedigrees from Skk.
Please correct me if I’m wrong or has misunderstand anything

Yes we do not have a specific MH (test) for CsV yet, I think we must do the GSD (test) ?

Very best regards / Mikael

Hi Mikael!

I understand if it is not that easy to understand but it is very important that you DO understand the diffrencies espacially since you think about being a breeder. Don not tell everybody the MH is a TEST because it is not. There are no special GSD test in the MH. The description situation is the same for every breed its how the spider looks like that counts and that is different from every breed. CsV should not have the same spider as GSD because then you can aswell buy a GSD. The MH dont VALUATE the dogs reaction..No reaction is better then another depending on how the breeds spider looks like. The describer is no judge...He or she only fill in the formula HOW the dog reacts. MH is no meritation its only to see how the dog fits in the spider of the breed more like breedingevaluation. Is the breed going in the right direction or not? SKK wants the MH for our breed to sort out weak individuals from breeding wich they can IF our dogs dont manage the shooting after being stressed out of the description situations. Because its a breed with not that good reputation in Sweden. The same goes for the saarloos for wich we also have to work out such spider, fitting that breed. So please Mikael DONT mix this things up for people.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Jimma

Hi Mikael!

I understand if it is not that easy to understand but it is very important that you DO understand the diffrencies espacially since you think about being a breeder. Don not tell everybody the MH is a TEST because it is not. There are no special GSD test in the MH. The description situation is the same for every breed its how the spider looks like that counts and that is different from every breed. CsV should not have the same spider as GSD because then you can aswell buy a GSD. The MH dont VALUATE the dogs reaction..No reaction is better then another depending on how the breeds spider looks like. The describer is no judge...He or she only fill in the formula HOW the dog reacts. MH is no meritation its only to see how the dog fits in the spider of the breed more like breedingevaluation. Is the breed going in the right direction or not? SKK wants the MH for our breed to sort out weak individuals from breeding wich they can IF our dogs dont manage the shooting after being stressed out of the description situations. Because its a breed with not that good reputation in Sweden. The same goes for the saarloos for wich we also have to work out such spider, fitting that breed. So please Mikael DONT mix this things up for people.

I´m not trying to mix anything up but clearly people se it as a test, as they put up there own video as "MH TEST", and not as just MH

did I put up the wrong video ? if not, I can only se the word TEST as wrong, sorry for that, it is Mental-beskrivning in Swedish and translated to English it is Mental-description if I´m not wrong...

I did know Mental Health Test was not the exact word, that is way I did put it in paranthes

My point was to show that the testing in the Bonitation of the mentality was not realy a big test, and say very little about the dogs mentality.

So even if we only call it MH... I think the reasen is still the same as on a Bonitation test, to try to breed better dogs and the right ones whit each other.

I se no point at all to argue if is is called a test or description

Best regards / Mikael

[Jimma]

Originally Posted by Mikael

My point was to show that the testing in the Bonitation of the mentality was not realy a big test, and say very little about the dogs mentality.

Upon that!! I can only agree!

// Jimma

[Juniorwolf]

I almost forgot
...I got answer from both Czech and Slovak club and apparently both countries only accept bonitations for their own breeding dogs which are made in their own country(Czech club only accept Czech bonitations for Czech breeding dogs and Slovak club only accept Slovak bonitations for Slovak breeding dogs, they don`t even accept eachothers), but Both clubs do officially ACCEPT any breeding dog, who have permission to breed in the country where it lives, so the conclution must be that it is ONLY wolfdog.org who do not accept Italian bonitations

This should be the end of this discussion together with the video-clip that Massimo posted earlier, which CLEARLY shows that there is a difference in Czech and Slovak character test and the difference is absolutly the same as in the Italian character test.

I just think it is funny, that non of the before so eager debaters, who was speaking against the Italian bonitations, have any comments to the FACT that wolfdog.org apparently is working against both the Czech and the Slovak clubs, by not accepting the Italian bonitations ...the same tendency can be seen in the thread about the stud dog list, where it is ONLY wolfdog.org who claim that dogs with ED is not to be used in the breeding and non of the clubs of origin have any restrictions about this or even require ED results.

I wait for a correction of the faults made by wolfdog.org about bonitation as well as about ED. ...or at least a reasonable explanation why wolfdog.org do not accept the guidelines of the clubs of origin.

Greetings Rolf

[admin]

Originally Posted by rolf

...I got answer from both Czech and Slovak club and apparently both countries only accept bonitations for their own breeding dogs which are made in their own country(Czech club only accept Czech bonitations for Czech breeding dogs and Slovak club only accept Slovak bonitations for Slovak breeding dogs, they don`t even accept eachothers), but Both clubs do officially ACCEPT any breeding dog, who have permission to breed in the country where it lives, so the conclution must be that it is ONLY wolfdog.org who do not accept Italian bonitations

Now I fully understand why Margo gave up the Wolfdog.org administration... For sure she had enough to explain again and again the most OBVIOUS things to people who do not WANT to understand it....

The "hidden true" which you just "discovered" is nothing else than the most BASIC FCI rule which says about reciprocal recognition of breeding rights...

Simply said ALL clubs (not only Czech and Slovakian but clubs IN ANY country) must and do accept breeding dogs from other countries. Even if there are NO RULES and all you need for breeding is just a pedigree...

But it has NOTHING to do with recognision of the bonitations. In this case you have the INTERNAL club rules who accept only COMPARABLE bonitations - made on the same "level" as the Czech and Slovak bonitations.