AKC lowering registration numbers for full recognition from FSS?

GalomyOak · 24-03-2010, 16:17

The biggest thing with AKC recognition is that it is the only US club that FCI reciprocates with. As an owner, this means little. It has a slightly different meaning for breeders. FCI doesn't recognize the FSS. I had several inquiries from Mexico and South America (all FCI countries) about puppies - for these countries, it means if they imported a CSV that was American bred, they couldn't register it. I do believe there is a roundabout way to register through the Puerto Rican Kennel Club (FCI), so maybe that would be a possibility.

Other than that...UKC offers more working titles (no tracking though, grrr), and they are generally more challenging. No professional handlers - only owners/breeders are supposed to handle, so not quite as much politics. AKC is an outdated system that is not responsive or effective in meeting the changes that have evolved in cynology - it's faced bankruptcy several times.

As for AKC accuracy, this is one of my favorite clauses from the FSS FAQ page:

Q: Do I need import papers to record my foreign-born rare breed?

If your foreign-born rare breed is registered with an acceptable foreign registry, the registry papers, your three-generation pedigree and the completed FSS® application with two photos of the dog should be forwarded to the AKC with the appropriate fee for review.

Dogs with two-generation pedigrees, one-generation pedigrees or names of sire and dam only, are eligible for enrollment in FSS® as the foundation stock of future generations.

Does this mean no pedigree?

Marcy

draggar · 24-03-2010, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

The biggest thing with AKC recognition is that it is the only US club that FCI reciprocates with. As an owner, this means little. It has a slightly different meaning for breeders. FCI doesn't recognize the FSS. I had several inquiries from Mexico and South America (all FCI countries) about puppies - for these countries, it means if they imported a CSV that was American bred, they couldn't register it. I do believe there is a roundabout way to register through the Puerto Rican Kennel Club (FCI), so maybe that would be a possibility.

If you keep up with the UKC registration that shouldn't be an issue?

yukidomari · 24-03-2010, 16:27

The AKC and FCI have a tacit recognition of each other, but the AKC is not a member of the FCI. I wonder if this recognition could be extended to the UKC.. it only makes sense to me.. the UKC recognizes many more breeds as the FCI confederation does.

The FSS policies seem pretty much like an open-stud book policy. Which.. I guess for breeds in foundation may be OK, but it's odd when it applies to ANY breed not yet recognized by the AKC but the FSS instead .. including very old breeds with hundreds of years of history.

draggar · 24-03-2010, 17:14

So then the question is, are the vlcaks here in the USA registered with UKC (Marcy?) and if not, can we get them? I'm sure it's not too far out that UKC won't accept the registration, maybe even if we need to register the parents first and then the puppies?

GalomyOak · 24-03-2010, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

So then the question is, are the vlcaks here in the USA registered with UKC (Marcy?) and if not, can we get them? I'm sure it's not too far out that UKC won't accept the registration, maybe even if we need to register the parents first and then the puppies?

Check with Sara, your UKC papers should have arrived for her to sign in the mail...if not, they should be there any day.

Everybody is all registered, and parents championed. Check my note on Facebook from last night too...

draggar · 24-03-2010, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Check with Sara, your UKC papers should have arrived for her to sign in the mail...if not, they should be there any day.

Everybody is all registered, and parents championed. Check my note on Facebook from last night too...

OK, I was just curious (I wasn't sure where / how they were registered). Sara handles all that, I just handle the forced cuddling.

Good to know we can show her UKC - maybe we can talk to some other people in the area and get some UKC shows going - we have one here once every 1-3 years.

GalomyOak · 24-03-2010, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

The AKC and FCI have a tacit recognition of each other, but the AKC is not a member of the FCI. I wonder if this recognition could be extended to the UKC.. it only makes sense to me.. the UKC recognizes many more breeds as the FCI confederation does.

The FSS policies seem pretty much like an open-stud book policy. Which.. I guess for breeds in foundation may be OK, but it's odd when it applies to ANY breed not yet recognized by the AKC but the FSS instead .. including very old breeds with hundreds of years of history.

Not so simple, and I am pretty sure other people have asked before.

Neither AKC nor FCI recognize UKC. UKC is a private organization, whereas AKC is non-profit, I think it probably also has to do with protocal in judging and recognition, and of course politics. Here is the letter stating reciprocation between the registries (the KC in UK and CKC in Canada have almost identical letters).

Line 2 & 3 in the first page are of interest in this matter.

http://fci.be/uploaded_files/Letter%...C_16072008.pdf

yukidomari · 24-03-2010, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Not so simple, and I am pretty sure other people have asked before.

Neither AKC nor FCI recognize UKC. UKC is a private organization, whereas AKC is non-profit, I think it probably also has to do with protocal in judging and recognition, and of course politics. Here is the letter stating reciprocation between the registries (the KC in UK and CKC in Canada have almost identical letters).

Line 2 & 3 in the first page are of interest in this matter.

http://fci.be/uploaded_files/Letter%...C_16072008.pdf

I've read that letter before, but rereading it is interesting.. point 3 says.

"No dog born in the USA, belonging to breeds recognised by the AKC, ill be registered by an FCI member registry unless the dog has been registered in the FCI-recognised registry in the United States. It is up to the FCI to decide about the registration of dogs born in the USA belonging to breeds not recognised by the AKC."

So even if the dogs remain not wholly recognised by the AKC, there is some way of FCI registration, right?

EDIT - Congrats on the placement Marcy!

24-03-2010, 16:17	#1
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	The biggest thing with AKC recognition is that it is the only US club that FCI reciprocates with. As an owner, this means little. It has a slightly different meaning for breeders. FCI doesn't recognize the FSS. I had several inquiries from Mexico and South America (all FCI countries) about puppies - for these countries, it means if they imported a CSV that was American bred, they couldn't register it. I do believe there is a roundabout way to register through the Puerto Rican Kennel Club (FCI), so maybe that would be a possibility. Other than that...UKC offers more working titles (no tracking though, grrr), and they are generally more challenging. No professional handlers - only owners/breeders are supposed to handle, so not quite as much politics. AKC is an outdated system that is not responsive or effective in meeting the changes that have evolved in cynology - it's faced bankruptcy several times. As for AKC accuracy, this is one of my favorite clauses from the FSS FAQ page: Q: Do I need import papers to record my foreign-born rare breed? If your foreign-born rare breed is registered with an acceptable foreign registry, the registry papers, your three-generation pedigree and the completed FSS® application with two photos of the dog should be forwarded to the AKC with the appropriate fee for review. Dogs with two-generation pedigrees, one-generation pedigrees or names of sire and dam only, are eligible for enrollment in FSS® as the foundation stock of future generations. Does this mean no pedigree? Marcy __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

24-03-2010, 17:14	#4
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	So then the question is, are the vlcaks here in the USA registered with UKC (Marcy?) and if not, can we get them? I'm sure it's not too far out that UKC won't accept the registration, maybe even if we need to register the parents first and then the puppies? __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

24-03-2010, 16:27	#3
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	The AKC and FCI have a tacit recognition of each other, but the AKC is not a member of the FCI. I wonder if this recognition could be extended to the UKC.. it only makes sense to me.. the UKC recognizes many more breeds as the FCI confederation does. The FSS policies seem pretty much like an open-stud book policy. Which.. I guess for breeds in foundation may be OK, but it's odd when it applies to ANY breed not yet recognized by the AKC but the FSS instead .. including very old breeds with hundreds of years of history.