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Old 30-05-2010, 08:00   #1
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Very shortly info - Mutaras are banned in CZ and SK. They reproduce illegaly (mostly under other names - e.g. Alaska) in Italy. More you can found in database.
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Old 30-05-2010, 09:53   #2
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In Italy, for sure, we are at the third generation of mutara. Those three generation have a "green" pedigree. From The next generation on, maybe they are already born (i don't know), the new puppies will have a normal pedigree. So, if you don't want mutara's blood in your pup you have to study his pedigree. My opinion on the loss of informations is that maybe it will be better if they will be registred in Database (I hope the owners of new generations will do it), because it could be difficult to identify them in the future, but of course it is just an opinion, i don't intend to polemize.
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Old 30-05-2010, 22:48   #3
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Will they be able to be registered in CZ or SK when they have a "normal" pedigree?
I totally agree with the idea that a list of mutaras be maintained in order to prevent registration of any mutara descendants as CsV - otherwise it would be possible to eventually register them in CZ or SK, right?
I mean, Luna's pedigree, for instance, goes back 8 generations to foundation stock - wolves and GSD. Once the mutara descendants get to that point, how could you find out if they are not pure?
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Old 31-05-2010, 07:08   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunas Mom View Post
Will they be able to be registered in CZ or SK when they have a "normal" pedigree?
I totally agree with the idea that a list of mutaras be maintained in order to prevent registration of any mutara descendants as CsV - otherwise it would be possible to eventually register them in CZ or SK, right?
I mean, Luna's pedigree, for instance, goes back 8 generations to foundation stock - wolves and GSD. Once the mutara descendants get to that point, how could you find out if they are not pure?
Generally dogs with register only (not with normal pedigree) can be registered in CZ, but using this dogs is practically banned. Only when somebody make a project, where argumentate, why wil use Mutaras in breed and when this project approve club conference of delegates, then is it possible. But just because the whole story of Mutaras am sure, that nobody approve it.
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Old 31-05-2010, 09:07   #5
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I already spoke with the programmer of the new database and ALL dogs with Mutara blood (it doesn't matter which generation) will be marked in the database with special warning about their not pure-breed origin and the people will be asked not to use them for breeding as they are not Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but pure mutts...
That's not exactly what I mean... If they are "marked" why should a breeder register a mutara's litter here? If you mark them you will lose all the future information, I think.
My opinion is that it is a war not so easy to fight, i've seen a Q-Mutara many times, people (common people, they are the market, they don't study four lines of pedigree's generation) likes him and he is not even the best of the litter.. when they will be use in breeding they will have no problem to sell the puppies. The mutara's line is a line that you can avoid (but just if you have informations) but it is not more a line that you can destroy..
Terrorism about mutara will not bring anything good, talk about them, write articles about them, study them will bring consciousness and opinions.
I say that, my opinion, with all the gratitude I have for this website and his Database, not to criticize or polemize.
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Old 31-05-2010, 10:39   #6
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In Slovakia can´t be used for breeding Mutaras and their children too. I hope after czech conferention (14 days later) here will be the same. If other countries (clubs) will have the same conditions, Mutaras will be "closed" in Italy.
Unfortunatelly- only in a few countries are breeding clubs for wolfdogs.
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Old 31-05-2010, 12:23   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciamalaia View Post
That's not exactly what I mean... If they are "marked" why should a breeder register a mutara's litter here? If you mark them you will lose all the future information, I think.
Really don't worry. The mixes are bred ONLY by puppy producers and other dishonest breeders which did not send us the information about their puppies. So really there is no difference.
All information we received about these mixes comes from private people and official registries. So we will have the exact information about all lines and kennels "infected" by the Mutara blood also in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciamalaia View Post
when they will be use in breeding they will have no problem to sell the puppies.
I have one questions: are the people which buy such puppies warned that the puppies are not purebreed Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but just mutts? Are they informed that these dogs are banned by the official clubs in Czech Republic and Slovakia - and banned will be not only their puppies but ALL their offsprings? That they will be not accepted to participate any club events? Even in 20 years?
Are they informed that no even one GOOD breeder will use their dogs and their offsprings EVER?

Of they are just cheated? Sure that they get a PURE BREED dog?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sciamalaia View Post
The mutara's line is a line that you can avoid (but just if you have informations) but it is not more a line that you can destroy..
I know. I know they are breeders which breed intentionally ill dogs, untypical dogs, dogs with strong dysplasia and other serious faults. So I'm sure there will be always breeders which breed not pure breed dogs. There will be always Breeders and Puppy Producers.

But nobody want to destroy the dogs. Just ask the Mutara-offospring owners to re-register them to the proper breed: they should be registered by your kennel club as Saarloos Wolfdogs. They simply do not have any thing common with our breed.
Mutaras are Saaloos alike crossing with blod of Malamute, Shepherd and some unknown dogs. And they offsprings can be compared to Saarloos-CzW-something crosses.
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Old 31-05-2010, 13:09   #8
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Quote:
are the people which buy such puppies warned that the puppies are not purebreed Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but just mutts? Are they informed that these dogs are banned by the official clubs in Czech Republic and Slovakia - and banned will be not only their puppies but ALL their offsprings? That they will be not accepted to participate any club events? Even in 20 years?
Are they informed that no even one GOOD breeder will use their dogs and their offsprings EVER?
Quote:
So we will have the exact information about all lines and kennels "infected" by the Mutara blood also in the future.
I hope they will be warned, I can just hope that, but i'm not optimist.. Of course when someone asks me I try to explain what I know about their history, but normally who hears don't care about it.
They are mutts, that's true... but they do have a pedigree, they can take part to a lot of events here, how many Italians go abroad to take part to a club activity? not so many.. How many search for a foreign stud? not so many..

Indeed I have not enough competences to give my contribute to this topic so I leave it to the expert as it should be. My line is to have as much informations as I can about who has those dogs, where they are and what is their names. I hope everyone will find those information here also in the future.
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Old 31-05-2010, 15:27   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciamalaia View Post
My opinion is that it is a war not so easy to fight, i've seen a Q-Mutara many times, people (common people, they are the market, they don't study four lines of pedigree's generation) likes him and he is not even the best of the litter.. when they will be use in breeding they will have no problem to sell the puppies.
But this peopel dont understand, whats mean the word "breeding". We dot produce the puppies for sale only !!! Mutara is just from begin a illegal action, without club approvement, without any project, targets or any descriptions, why was produced. Any texts about Mutara from side people, which was active in this illegal action, was create first after I publish, that this hybrids exists. Simply say, Mutara cant bring to CsW race anything. Mother is white canadian wolf and father is a GSD (?) without pedigree, thats mea unknown origin and of course with unknown faults and illness. From character side is nothing too. Father is a excellent trace dog (one of the best in CZ), but tracing is the really last character sign, which is necessary to improve by today CsW generations.
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Old 31-05-2010, 15:59   #10
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So who, exactly, registers these Mutara dogs? If there is no where to register them, then it isn't so good to produce them - people who buy dogs want papers, so if there are no official papers, there is no money.
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Old 31-05-2010, 00:46   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciamalaia View Post
In Italy, for sure, we are at the third generation of mutara. Those three generation have a "green" pedigree. From The next generation on, maybe they are already born (i don't know), the new puppies will have a normal pedigree. So, if you don't want mutara's blood in your pup you have to study his pedigree. My opinion on the loss of informations is that maybe it will be better if they will be registred in Database (I hope the owners of new generations will do it), because it could be difficult to identify them in the future, but of course it is just an opinion, i don't intend to polemize.
I already spoke with the programmer of the new database and ALL dogs with Mutara blood (it doesn't matter which generation) will be marked in the database with special warning about their not pure-breed origin and the people will be asked not to use them for breeding as they are not Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but pure mutts...

Even after the mixes will get "normal" pedigrees it doesn't matter for us: because some national kennel clubs are not able to guaranty the quality of their pedigrees and allow to register as CzWs even dogs with 0% of CzW blood ("Alaska", Mutaras, aso) we decided to base on the direction of the breed clubs in the origin countries and to ban Mutaras and ALL their offsprings.
They are mixes of unknown origin and will be treated by us as any kind of mixes.
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