New admin

[Angelika]

Thank you, admin

[GalomyOak]

Quick question on the new database...some dogs are listed with !!!MIX!!!, others with !!!Non-FCI!!! - there is another group of dogs that says
!!!REG!!! - what does this refer to? Thanks!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Quick question on the new database...some dogs are listed with !!!MIX!!!, others with !!!Non-FCI!!! - there is another group of dogs that says
!!!REG!!! - what does this refer to? Thanks!

Mix are dogs like Mutaras, dogs that have no pure CSW parents.

Non-FCI means kennels that are no registered FCI-kennels, what means no FCI-pedigrees. The German kennel "vom Böhmerwald" is a kennel but not member of the VDH/FCI.

Reg very likely means registered dogs, in the FCI there is the possibility of phenotype-registration. Dogs that look like a breed can get registration pedigrees and their offspring gets this kind of pedigrees for as far as I remember 4 generations, after that they get normal pedigrees. If you take for example Amber, she is of parents with full FCI-pedigree but not bred under any kennel but underwent phenotype-registration.

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Reg very likely means registered dogs, in the FCI there is the possibility of phenotype-registration. Dogs that look like a breed can get registration pedigrees and their offspring gets this kind of pedigrees for as far as I remember 4 generations, after that they get normal pedigrees. If you take for example Amber, she is of parents with full FCI-pedigree but not bred under any kennel but underwent phenotype-registration.

So phenotype can be based purely on whether a kennel is FCI registered or not - not necessarily on whether a dog is known to be of pure lineage (which Amber obviously is)? We have a similar type of phenotype registration here, but it is for dogs with unknown parents (which terrifies me for our breed...). AKC doesn't require any kind of kennel registration (I wish they did), so this hadn't even occured to me for FCI. Thanks!

Marcy

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

No, the phenotype registration only needs a dog that looks like a CSW. There are registered Mutaras and others. Wolfdog only has them as mixes if they know they are.
Originally registration was a good thing for breeds like for example the Picard which has not so many FCI-registered dogs but there are still working dogs with shepherds without pedigrees.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

No, the phenotype registration only needs a dog that looks like a CSW. There are registered Mutaras and others. Wolfdog only has them as mixes if they know they are.
Originally registration was a good thing for breeds like for example the Picard which has not so many FCI-registered dogs but there are still working dogs with shepherds without pedigrees.

Is phenotype registration still available? Why would it still be available for a breed already fully recognized (ie., not provisional) by the FCI and its comprising kennel clubs?

Marcy, were you alluding to the AKC's FSS' take on registering dogs with no known parents so long as the dog physically resembles said breed? That's effectively an open stud book and that that worries me too ...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Yes, it is available in the FCI but the Slovakian Club decided not to accept registered dogs and doesn´t register as far as I know.
But it can´t be prevented that other countries register them and that was how the Mutaras got into breeding. http://www.wolfdog.org/deu/dbase/d8668.html
It would make sense in the case of dogs like Amber to get a paternal DNA for proof and than at least give informations in the registry-papers but the parents and other ancestors don´t show up in the papers. So all information is lost.
I don´t think registration is bad in general if it is handled with paternal proof or like in the case of the Picard helps to get more dogs into the breeding gene pool but it gets a big problem with mixes or parents that didn´t fullfill the the breeding rules by failing the health tests that are required.