Anyone have experience with a purebred wolf?

[Gypsy Wolf]

Yes, coyotes are not wolves. I was mentioning that I like coyotes and am interested in studying them.
And genetics tell us that today's domestic dogs ARE descended from wolves - they are basically genetically-manipulated, neo-natized Eurasian wolves. In fact, there is no genetic way to distinguish wolves and dogs, which is why their scientific classification is now CANIS LUPUS FAMILIARIS.
Also WRONG that there is "no difference" between a hybrid (any content) and a pure wolf. Because we do not know the EXACT modes of inheritance for genetics, if it has "dog" genetics - however small - it is not necessarily going to be just like a "pure" wolf. I am not interested in dealing with dog genetics when it comes to studying behavior.
And for those interested in furthering their understanding of genetic manipulation... look up the Balyeav fox experiments.... wild foxes raised for their fur and in just a couple of generations where the breeder selected for "tameness" and suddenly they were being born with patchy fur, curled tails and droopy ears - all WILD fox genetics - but nothing like the original foxes trapped in the wild for the experiment. Part of why I want to study the "original" material.
I find it interesting how polarizing this discussion is for people - it shows a passionate love of the species. That is also a large part of why I am interested in studying them. Interesting that I do not see anyone here protesting the other people who study the species... and we have learned a great deal recently from several captive wolf studies (I believe it was a German or Swiss University conducting the behavioral studies) regarding their problem-solving abilities, etc. My interest is in furthering knowledge in just that venue, so that we not only learn more out Canis lupus lupus but also canis lupus familiaris...

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

Interesting that I do not see anyone here protesting the other people who study the species... and we have learned a great deal recently from several captive wolf studies (I believe it was a German or Swiss University conducting the behavioral studies) regarding their problem-solving abilities, etc.

The difference is that as a university or other large organization, they theoretically have more resources than a single person does in conducting useful research, both in contacts and financial resources.

And with the backing of a university, discoveries and observations are more acceptable, more able to be useful, believable, and verifiable.. not merely one person's experience and and observations. Unless a person has had a long and storied reputation (say someone like Diane Fossey or Jane Goodall, and even their methodology is contested), personal observation is not likely meaningful to the body of knowledge in general. ..

[saschia]

I don't protest projects, because I know that to get a grant for it, you need to prove that the animals will not suffer by your research. Ditto for publishing - no self-respecting opublisher would accept paper where accordance to animal handling practices was not stated. I would oppose any individualistic project that would use wolves from commercial breeders.

And before you start arguing with people that did behavior research on their own wolf packs, than my argument is - 1. it is a pack, not individual wolf, 2. if the wolves were bred (produced) for the purpose then I cannot accept it as correct practice.

I would strongly recommend you to join a shelter or refugee or things like that, you'll have my moral support and a piece of envy too ;o)

Now I am going to study the ontogeny of social behavior in my very own pack of Descendants of Wolves (that's the English translation of my kennel name for those here who don't speak Slovak) ;o) Brown barked at me yesterday and succeeded to howl puppy-style today.

[Gypsy Wolf]

As I stated in an earlier post, my first step is volunteering at a refuge. I have no desire to get in over my head. Remember, this has been something I have been wanting to do for almost 2 decades...
And the primatologists mentioned (Fossey, et al) who did their ground-breaking research BECAME well-respected AFTER they decided to say "screw it" to the non-believers and just did as they felt right - something that I may do in the future.
It seems those scientific mavericks have brought a lot to the study of Ethology, so who is to say that I could not? Simply because I am not "known" or "funded" right now? And simply because the universities get funding, does NOT mean they are any better - or do anything more humanely - that I would - I have seen it before.
I have followed very talented dog trainers who have specifically learned training through their interaction and understanding of wolf behavior - on a personal level. Bashkim Dibra and his wolf Mariah come to mind. I feel he brought a lot to dog training through his knowledge, and if I were able to do the same, it would be more than woth it. Jeez, it would be more than worth it for me to have that experience, whether I write a book or not...
Just because I am not part of a university (though perhaps I could see if UFL would mind my doing a doctorate on the subject) does not mean I should be barred from learning this way simply because it is less "acceptable" to society?
As I had mentioned before, I am also interested in studying coyote behavior - I am not looking for funding to go and research them in the field - does it make my observing them wrong? Or less acceptable? And to whom? Again, I am not interested in reproducing the results in a lab - Ethologists don't do that, but they trust each other's research - even though most hard-core scientists would consider it anecdotal. Does that make it less valuable?
I read "anecdotal" stuff all the time - one of my favorite books is about Charley the coyote (Shreve Stockton's book The Daily Coyote) as well as Farley Mowat's Never Cry Wolf. Are they "science"? Not really. They are excellent insights into ethological studies of the species - even if they aren't reproducible, they are no doubt vauable to those interested in behavior... who is to say I wouldn't be the next Farley Mowat? We all start somewhere...

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

And the primatologists mentioned (Fossey, et al) who did their ground-breaking research BECAME well-respected AFTER they decided to say "screw it" to the non-believers and just did as they felt right - something that I may do in the future.

Fossey and Goodall never attempted to contribute to the captive population of their chosen studies. Their studies were done at national parks or other similar locales and they actively worked to STOP the production of captive gorillas/chimps, not contribute to it. ..their studies was and always has been founded on the principles of observing and protecting them as they are in the wild...

And yes, funding is a huge part of the equation...

[Gypsy Wolf]

I am not looking to add to the local population either, though one of the things that other ethologists have discussed with me is how my study could positively impact the wild wolf's plight with habitat loss as well as overall health studies.
For istance I did an involved project for my degree about rehabilitating the FL Alligator - part of the study involved behavior of the species (it ended up not to be a successful venue as alligators relocated even thousands of miles away will eventually return to their home ponds) - with wolves, we have a serious issue of inability to adapt to human "pressure" in an environment. And what better way to study this that to study the intimate behavior?
Another thing is nutrition and evnironmental impact on immunity and orthopedics. I don't know of anyone who feeds raw (they tout mimicing natural diet, which, in most cases is not accurate as dogs evolved eating our refuse, not organic, pristine cuts of meat and fresh veggies) who has any studies on how "good" (or bad) joints in the wild population are. They always say "wolves don't get HD" - no - because they die at like 5 years old in the wild... but there are no x-rays backing this up that I have ever seen.
So if the wild wolves are my control group, my own wolf would be the study subject.
Again, my plan is to volunteer first - then perhaps I can convince the refuge and UFL to get involved in a study - maybe I will even find a dog food company to sponsor it, but I would HAVE to start with a "clean slate" at some point. I also would like to have another ethologist or two to help out, as I do not want my observations skewed, but seconded or refuted by others involved in the study.
Perhaps we will find something no one else has uncovered - that's what the purpose is - perhaps wolves, like humans, base mate choice on genetics and scent - or maybe it's courtship behaviors or simply geography - no one knows. And even simple studies like this can often be applied to other mammals...
And who knows, perhaps just this sort of study will help wild wolves...
For instance, Sea World's captive Penguin population were not breeding until some "genius" pointed out that their light phase in the enclosure was NORTHERN and not Southern, and when they changed it, the birds began breeding - all from one scientist who studied penguin breeding and the photoperiod...
This likely will be a plan of the future - not any time soon. In the meantime I am quite happy studying the behavior I see in my vlcak. She is not quite "dog" but not "wolf" either and I have been keeping detailed records on her behavior. Not sure what, if any, purpose this will have in the future, but it satisfies my desire to unravel the mystery of how the dog evolved from the wolf, and certainly adds to my dog-training experience and communication. And maybe someday to a bigger picture.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Apart from everything else is it a simple fact, that studies on one wolf or one or two dogs are of no value for any scientific approach as they show the behaviour of this one individual and nothing else. Additional this one individual will be extremely influenced by humans what will make the results even more questionable.
So this will not be science but simple personal learning and interest of one or some more persons.

And meaning absolutely no offense but just having your own safety in mind: If the way you walk and move on the herding videos is the normal way you walk and not due to momentary health status, are you not save around adult handraised wolves if you have direct contact and the wolf is socialised very well.
You might be alright with only one individual taking safety precautions but this would also mean you couldn´t interact as free as you intend.