Communism - what you think about it?

[Vaiva]

Zitat von Rona

Your grandma was right In all times, in all systems, there have always been authorities (decision makers), institutions that supported or struggleed with them and common people who followed various philosophies, values & norms, views, etc. etc. These three notions should not be confused when discussing sensitive issuses

Vaiva, I understood Morian was just trying to point out how stereotypical Draggar's commnent was.

BTW, could the moderator cut the "historic" part out from the main topic?

I did not acuse any countries or people - just the system Many friends of mine are russians, but non of them are comunists And - Rona - in communist times Poland and Czechoslovakia seemed a nice dream when looking from Lithuania.
Yes, it was nice - studies for free (just be a member of young comunists, have exams from atheism and so on), flats for free (just be a good behaving member of a comunist party, do not think too much also), but to buy a refrigerator you have to stand in line Same three kinds of sausage in a shop (including this ugly "no-meet" boiled thing "šlapenka"), standing in line for an hour for toilet paper (when there is some, not allways!!!), oranges only on Christmas. Same clothes for everyone (still remember sometimes with my friends - "did you have a black synthetic fur coat with round wooden buttons? Mine were green"). Jeans only if you have an uncle in USA who sent it (I still have one in Florida ). And also there was no crime or disabled people, yes, just because newspapers could not write about bad things, only about great tractor drivers and happy factory workers, and nobody cared about disabled people

It is so good to live in a comunist country - not much working, not much thinking and everything is given for free Slaves are allways happy if they do not need to work too much and get some cheap food and vodka, aren't they?

[wolfin]

Zitat von Vaiva

It is so good to live in a comunist country - not much working, not much thinking and everything is given for free Slaves are allways happy if they do not need to work too much and get some cheap food and vodka, aren't they?

you to young member this all and speak like this type people who not know who was realy but only heard about this.
slaves are not this people who stay in Lithuania and not runn - not all but bigest procent and was free in mind and in heart, slaves for good lives are this who runn away and cry - "they are a patriots" ...
funny this all and not moore.

[Vaiva]

Zitat von wolfin

you to young member this all and speak like this type people who not know who was realy but only heard about this.
slaves are not this people who stay in Lithuania and not runn - not all but bigest procent and was free in mind and in heart, slaves for good lives are this who runn away and cry - "they are a patriots" ...
funny this all and not moore.

Yes, I quted my mum But still remember the same clothes that everyone had and living in... do not know the word in English... a place where ten young familys share one kitchen, one toilet and one shower My mother still remembers evenings, when they had two eggs and baked them silently, afraid, that if I will wake up and also want one - in this case one of them will stay hungry. And this is a family of both working lawyers and a child, still in kindergarden, living in town (countryside was in better situation).

In this case slaves are the ones, who do not care for freedom, for ability to have their own country and their right to speak/write/think/even sing what they want to, if they just can have something for free... The ones that still say "ah, I do not care for freedom, give me cheap sausage".

[Morian]

it all smells like teen maximalism when a person is unable to perceive reality objectively, (s)he should seek medical help. i speak as a physician

[Vaiva]

Zitat von Morian

it all smells like teen maximalism when a person is unable to perceive reality objectively, (s)he should seek medical help. i speak as a physician

A good trick when you have no arguments is to say that the contradicting person has problems with his mind Also reminds of something... To acuse people they are mentaly sick and for this to hold them isolated...

[Morian]

vaiva, don't tell me about arguments because you still gave no arguments, not me. you only repeat over and over again the same things, by the way not argumented. do you want me to use statistics here, historical facts etc.? i don't want to start a "holy war" here, really. some people tell their point of view, but you ignore it as you ignore objective reality. you just try to oppose yourself to the system. what do you want to show by this - how freedom, possibility to stand out from the crowd or need to have jeans is important for you? if you want to be free, first what you can do is to reject stereotypical thinking and to stop monochrome vision of the word. are you able to? seems you aren't.

[Vaiva]

Zitat von Morian

some people tell their point of view,

Yes, and I am telling my point of view What is wrong?

[Rona]

One little British girl a few years older than you, Vaiva came to Poland in 1986. When I asked if she liked the country she replied: "I never thought the sun would be shining in a communist country, I thought everything would have to be grey and rainy."

I don't miss the old times at all and I know what I'm talking about. Both my husband and I have our share in fighting the system, and it wasn't funny at all. But people's feelings are universal and in all times they strive for happiness. We were sociable, sensitive, happy and adventurous although we were living under the regime and many times risked our careers and freedom just to behave decently.

It's true, there were some useless ideological subjects at the university but in Poland they either were treated lightly, or taught by wise lectureres who under stupid labels smuggled interesting content. I was lucky to have brilliant courses in the history of economics and philosophy under the "Political economics of socialism" and similar subjects.

Zitat von Vaiva

It is so good to live in a comunist country - not much working, not much thinking and everything is given for free Slaves are allways happy if they do not need to work too much and get some cheap food and vodka, aren't they?

Being a slave is mental, not physical or temporal. There are happy slaves in every system and free people in jails. If you look at the masses of people entering every morning huge multinational corporations in their identical suits and realize they'll stay there until dark, don't you see slaves in them? I do.
Under communist rules there were many creative people who worked hard and despite the silly inefficient system did great jobs in various professions, but there were also many lazy and demotivated greedy guys. Just like now!

Just to make it clear: I wasn't a member of a communist party, nor did I get a free flat. My family also suffered from the communist system, but it's not a reason to feel bitter all the time and poison the next generations with this bitterness. History is history - cannot be changed. I find much more disturbing that politicians do not profit from the knowledge of the past and keep repeating the same mistakes again and again

[wolfin]

Zitat von Rona

Being a slave is mental, not physical or temporal. There are happy slaves in every system and free people in jails. If you look at the masses of people entering every morning huge multinational corporations in their identical suits and realize they'll stay there until dark, don't you see slaves in them? I do.

exactly.. now i see moore slaves like in old time. YES I not want for back this time too, but .. Vaiva speak about ... things who not have have in this time... but or this ake people happy? not family? not friends? only things- tualet paper, or "slapenka". I know hystory from 1936- this hystory about live in wars time, in cccp time tell my grandma - about german oficer about rusian about ours partizans, about live in new system .. ant this are hystory simple women who have a 7 child who born in war time ( 3 brothers), simply women, who not are politic party member or wife "big sef".
this people like my grandma and know realy hystory, not this who written book about this.

[Vaiva]

Zitat von wolfin

exactly.. now i see moore slaves like in old time. YES I not want for back this time too, but .. Vaiva speak about ... things who not have have in this time... but or this ake people happy? not family? not friends? only things- tualet paper, or "slapenka". I know hystory from 1936- this hystory about live in wars time, in cccp time tell my grandma - about german oficer about rusian about ours partizans, about live in new system .. ant this are hystory simple women who have a 7 child who born in war time ( 3 brothers), simply women, who not are politic party member or wife "big sef".
this people like my grandma and know realy hystory, not this who written book about this.

Sure, and only you have grandparents, other people don't

Familys are happy when they are all alive and together, in all the times. But still there is a big difference, when your family member is working in London and you know he or she is alive, wors is to not know if your family member is still alive or not is Siberia.

[Vaiva]

Zitat von Rona

We were sociable, sensitive, happy and adventurous although we were living under the regime and many times risked our careers and freedom just to behave decently.

Sure, this was the point in the very begining of the discussion. That people do not become pigs when they live in difficult conditions.
I am not talking abou people, I am talking about certain political system.

Zitat von Rona

If you look at the masses of people entering every morning huge multinational corporations in their identical suits and realize they'll stay there until dark, don't you see slaves in them? I do.

Sure, but this is the way they chose themselves.

Zitat von Rona

Under communist rules there were many creative people who worked hard and despite the silly inefficient system did great jobs in various professions, but there were also many lazy and demotivated greedy guys. Just like now!

Sure, also there where people, who were imprisoned because of their creativity, works or religion.

Zitat von Rona

Just to make it clear: I wasn't a member of a communist party, nor did I get a free flat.

You had to be at least a young comunist, or was the system in Poland different?

Zitat von Rona

I find much more disturbing that politicians do not profit from the knowledge of the past and keep repeating the same mistakes again and again

Maybe they simply are fast to forget the history?
There is no need to be bitter, but knowing history allways helps.

Back to the topic - would a project like Czechoslovakian wolfdog be possible in a todays democratic country? If yes, how different a breed would be?

P.S. Totally hate quoting on wolfdog.org

[wolfin]

Zitat von Vaiva

Back to the topic - would a project like Czechoslovakian wolfdog be possible in a todays democratic country? If yes, how different a breed would be?

P.S. Totally hate quoting on wolfdog.org

i think like a sarlos ))
yes I agree - not place for this and .... hystory is hystory, live is live

[Rona]

Zitat von Vaiva

You had to be at least a young comunist, or was the system in Poland different?

My daughter is your age

[Vaiva]

Zitat von Rona

My daughter is your age

So it does not explain if you were a young comunist or not I am sure you had to be a pioneer