British Kennel Club Recognition

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by hedeon

Will it be irresponsible only to encourage breeding or to breed at all? It doesn't stopped many breeders, like mr Winder for example. Does it make him irresponsible breeder then, or is he an exception from this point of view?

As I dont know him or have never heard of him before the forum post
I couldnt comment on him or his practices!

I think {in my opinion } any breeding or protential breeding of these dogs should only be done in the UK once KC reg is gained....by perhaps registered vetted breeders if that is at all possible?

Ive seen 2 'breeders' websites one in devon and one in orkney I have not seen his until today

It did make me wonder ..if he is such a terrible person and had no care for his puppies why he would go to such an extent to vet everyone he sells a puppy to and even rejected members of this forum? Strange... conflicting messages really!

There is obviously a demand for the dogs in the U.K but worries me that people are buying into something that they may not bargain for!

One would hope that people thinking of buying this breed would do research and find forums like this to make themselves aware before purchasing!! one can dream!!

..however I also didnt know this forum or website excisted either!

if I was to consider another dog I wouldnt buy from the UK until the breed was registered...{in my own opinion}

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

As I dont know him or have never heard of him before the forum post
I couldnt comment on him or his practices!

I think {in my opinion } any breeding or protential breeding of these dogs should only be done in the UK once KC reg is gained....by perhaps registered vetted breeders if that is at all possible?

Ive seen 2 'breeders' websites one in devon and one in orkney I have not seen his until today

It did make me wonder ..if he is such a terrible person and had no care for his puppies why he would go to such an extent to vet everyone he sells a puppy to and even rejected members of this forum? Strange... conflicting messages really!

There is obviously a demand for the dogs in the U.K but worries me that people are buying into something that they may not bargain for!

One would hope that people thinking of buying this breed would do research and find forums like this to make themselves aware before purchasing!! one can dream!!

..however I also didnt know this forum or website excisted either!

if I was to consider another dog I wouldnt buy from the UK until the breed was registered...{in my own opinion}

furthermore even after owning a czech wolfdog for over 10 years and living in the UK for a few years I wouldnt even consider breeding dogs!
I still think I am learning more and more everyday!!

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

It did make me wonder ..if he is such a terrible person and had no care for his puppies why he would go to such an extent to vet everyone he sells a puppy to and even rejected members of this forum? Strange... conflicting messages really!

For example he could reject someone from this forum (why not? If demand is so high he will find another buyer no problem) just to say in future "look how wonderful breeder I am, I've rejected one of you, because I really care about my pups." Or if a cross would be sold as a pure CSV, someone from this forum could actually find out that, and make a lot of unwanted noise on the forum. Explanations may be many, so I don't think these messages are conflicting really. I never said he is a terrible person. He just crosses CSV with others breeds, and I don't really like to get my dog from breeder who does that. That's it.

[happyfeet]

Originally Posted by hedeon

For example he could reject someone from this forum (why not? If demand is so high he will find another buyer no problem) just to say in future "look how wonderful breeder I am, I've rejected one of you, because I really care about my pups." Or if a cross would be sold as a pure CSV, someone from this forum could actually find out that, and make a lot of unwanted noise on the forum. Explanations may be many, so I don't think these messages are conflicting really. I never said he is a terrible person. He just crosses CSV with others breeds, and I don't really like to get my dog from breeder who does that. That's it.

hmm.. but couldnt any of the breeders? I dont think that many prospective owners use the forum and there are quite a few forums, to be fair I've never seen the forum until 3 months ago and was put off registering as its quite anti UK on many threads. So what you have to say on here surely makes no difference to the breeder, but who knows!! we dont know why he rejected members of the forum I find it highly unlikely it would be because they are members?

I still think that its all conflicting... would I buy from him..NO, Why? Because I would need to know more,see more and speak with a breeder first to make my own mind up whether he or she is fit and responsible in my own eyes..be it UK/EUROPE

Being a member on here and a breeder doesnt in my mind say this person must be good as they post on a forum?

Does he care for where his puppys are going well he seems to ? and we agree on one thing would you buy from a breeder who also breeds crosses? NO too risky!

Did I say that you had said he was a terrible breeder? I think not!!!

Its a shame that he isnt able to respond to the treads and quotes and voice his own opinion as we all can do.
However I dont know the history of the breeders etc so perhaps there is a reason he was blocked from commenting?

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

...I dont think that many prospective owners use the forum and there are quite a few forums, to be fair I've never seen the forum until 3 months ago and was put off registering as its quite anti UK on many threads.

Well, good prospective owner will do a research on breed before even deciding does he want to be a owner of such breed, right? Well, assuming he is able to use internet, that will be one of first places to do such research. When typed "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" into google, wolfdog.org came up on second and third place in search results. I think if someone never heard of wolfdog.org, never really searched anything about CSV in internet.
I never had problem registering on this forum and I am from Uk, and I never initially stated that I am Polish in fact.

Originally Posted by happyfeet

...would I buy from him..NO, Why? Because I would need to know more,see more and speak with a breeder first to make my own mind up whether he or she is fit and responsible in my own eyes..be it UK/EUROPE...
Being a member on here and a breeder doesnt in my mind say this person must be good as they post on a forum?

100% agree.
Regarding Tupac as breeder, I think Rona has such opinion about Tupac not only because she is a member of this forum, and she posts.

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

hmm.. but couldnt any of the breeders? I dont think that many prospective owners use the forum and there are quite a few forums, to be fair I've never seen the forum until 3 months ago and was put off registering as its quite anti UK on many threads. So what you have to say on here surely makes no difference to the breeder, but who knows!! we dont know why he rejected members of the forum I find it highly unlikely it would be because they are members?

I still think that its all conflicting... would I buy from him..NO, Why? Because I would need to know more,see more and speak with a breeder first to make my own mind up whether he or she is fit and responsible in my own eyes..be it UK/EUROPE

Being a member on here and a breeder doesnt in my mind say this person must be good as they post on a forum?

Does he care for where his puppys are going well he seems to ? and we agree on one thing would you buy from a breeder who also breeds crosses? NO too risky!

Did I say that you had said he was a terrible breeder? I think not!!!

Its a shame that he isnt able to respond to the treads and quotes and voice his own opinion as we all can do.
However I dont know the history of the breeders etc so perhaps there is a reason he was blocked from commenting?

he was blocked because he kicked up about this czech wolfdog being abused by top kennel as breeding machine, look it up, AMRA VLCI NADEJE or go to data base and find kennel ARIMMINUM 10 litters of pups producing 69 pups breed 3 times to same sire, first litter was born when bitch was just 1 year and 3 days old last litter bitch was 10 yrs and 5 mths old when she had last litter,,,, but this is not the only kennel breeding like this is it,,,, also in data base put in non fci, you get some non fci czech wolfdogs but the site has removed many many of the x bred ones,,,,,,ok for europe but not for uk,,,,,,,ok for european breeders to x breed, ok for european breeders to mix in wolf ,,,,,,,,,,,,in uk they cant and dont try to register the x breds in europe many back street breders do,,,,,Admin please put up all non fci wolfdogs for all to see,,,,,,Rona you and other condemed mr winder for his comments on the breeding practice of Arimminum kennels i have read old posts,but you did remove a lot didnt you,,,,,question to MIJKE can you give people of uk full list of all health defects found in this breed Czechoslovakian wolfdog, it would be nice to have them all,,,,,,,,

[Rona]

I feel responsible for my words and I have never ever removed ANY of my posts!!! Not to mention that not being a moderator I simply could not do it!

Neither have I ever approved breeding many litters from one female, and even once asked Edit (Crying Wolf) on the forum how it was formally possible for her to register 3 litters of the same bitch in 2 years. Not that I was satisfied with her relpy, but what can we do if Hungarian KC accepts such practices?
Nevertheless, I would never support such a kennel and buy a pup from them, though somebody told me, you(r beloved Ronnie) did so IMO an experienced and responisble breeder should research a kennel well before getting a dog, so lack of knowldege does not justify such a step.

I see you, just like Mr Winder, seem to have some obsession with me, but I could not have abused my female because I have never bred any pups, so leave me alone, please.

Younger forum members might not know, but when I first joined wd in 2004 I was really trying hard to help Mr Winder struggle with DEFRA - signed petitions, wrote several letters, even organized a small pressure group: my family an friends in the UK supported the case by e-mailing DEFRA! I also took and forwarded photos showing how "normal" dogs CSVs were etc. etc.

Believe me or not, but I was probably one of the most disppointed members of this forum when I found out that Mr Winder was mix-breeding CSVs with a wolf, thus IMO - abusing the breed! In my country, if a registered breeder is found to have done so, he's banned from breeding for good: his kennel is closed and he cannot ever become a National KC member and show his dogs in dog shows.

And please don't tell me that breeders in other countries break the law or code of ethics - just like Hedeon mentioned - this is not a valid argument, because it does not give one any rights to do the same.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by kalcon

he was blocked because he kicked up about this czech wolfdog being abused by top kennel as breeding machine,

We all know that it's not truth, also I knew you would come back and try to use this excuse for explain why you was banned at that time, and that is exactly why I did this topic at Administration forum.

Originally Posted by Kalcon

Rona you and other condemed mr winder for his comments on the breeding practice of Arimminum kennels i have read old posts,but you did remove a lot didnt you

How you supposed she did that, if she clearly isn't Admin or an Moderator?
Uuhm... There is some kind of Daltonism which have exactly this effect, to mistake yellow and blue, have you ever think about visit an good ophthalmologist?!

Originally Posted by Kalcon

ok for european breeders to x breed, ok for european breeders to mix in wolf ,,,,,,,,,,,,in uk they cant and dont try to register the x breds in europe many back street breders do,,,,,

It isn't ok in any country ruled by FCI. Haven't mr Winder, which lived long time in Europe to learn about wolfdogs and breeding (as you said), told you about that?

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

It isn't ok in any country ruled by FCI. Haven't mr Winder, which lived long time in Europe to learn about wolfdogs and breeding (as you said), told you about that?

Mr. Winder contacted me personally on Facebook, telling I am wrong not to be happy about CsW/wolf hybrids in UK, because people in Europe do the same. I asked for names of dogs again, and Mr. Winder dissapeared
Anyway, I have an idea which Lithuanian bred dogs might look like wolf hybrids for unexperienced eye and this makes me really happy

[mijke]

Originally Posted by kalcon

question to MIJKE can you give people of uk full list of all health defects found in this breed Czechoslovakian wolfdog, it would be nice to have them all,,,,,,,,

This is since a long time for everybody to find on the Wolfdog-Healthinfo site

[pixie]

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

[Murph]

Originally Posted by pixie

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

Well there is the facebook page but its always pretty quiet on there!

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by pixie

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

Brilliant idea.

Taz

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by pixie

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

Well, I fully agree. One person is not able to do it, owners need to unite and cooperate to get CSV recognized. I am no owner yet. Hope that I will become soon. But I am willing to help any way I can.
And we will also need help of more experienced people from this forum as I dont completely understand what KC mean by "Proposed breeding plan" and "Gene pool".

By FB you probably meant this group:
https://www.facebook.com/group.php?g...3469887&ref=ts

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by happyfeet

As I dont know him or have never heard of him before the forum post
I couldnt comment on him or his practices!

I think {in my opinion } any breeding or protential breeding of these dogs should only be done in the UK once KC reg is gained....by perhaps registered vetted breeders if that is at all possible?

Ive seen 2 'breeders' websites one in devon and one in orkney I have not seen his until today

It did make me wonder ..if he is such a terrible person and had no care for his puppies why he would go to such an extent to vet everyone he sells a puppy to and even rejected members of this forum? Strange... conflicting messages really!

There is obviously a demand for the dogs in the U.K but worries me that people are buying into something that they may not bargain for!

One would hope that people thinking of buying this breed would do research and find forums like this to make themselves aware before purchasing!! one can dream!!

..however I also didnt know this forum or website excisted either!

if I was to consider another dog I wouldnt buy from the UK until the breed was registered...{in my own opinion}

hello i am james i own a Czechoslovakian wolfdog bred by ronnie winder, i live only 3 miles from him, i have visited his kennels many times, he breeds Czechoslovakian wolfdogs and he breeds other wolfdogs, he has never told any lies, he has bred a czech wolfdog to a wolf, but he has never bred a czech wolfdog to any other bred of dog, he bred the czech to the wolf as this is what he does with many breeders in European countries, Ireland and USA, i can assure you it is very hard to get a wolfdog from this man, 101 questions, he googles your post code to see where you live, he wants to know all about your life style, kids, animals, as i work and am away for 5 hrs a day he insisted i build an outdoor kennel and excercice area and that i also got another dog to keep the wolfdog company when i was at work, i have a labrador as well which he insisted i got castrated,,he treats everyone the same when vetting and only sells to best homes,,,,,,,,,,if you live in uk then email ronnie he wont eat you, and you can arrange visit to see his dogs and you can go into large enclosure with a pack of wolfdogs it is an experience you will never forget,,,,,,,james.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by kalcon

hello i am james i own a Czechoslovakian wolfdog bred by ronnie winder, i live only 3 miles from him, i have visited his kennels many times, he breeds Czechoslovakian wolfdogs and he breeds other wolfdogs, he has never told any lies, he has bred a czech wolfdog to a wolf, but he has never bred a czech wolfdog to any other bred of dog, he bred the czech to the wolf as this is what he does with many breeders in European countries, Ireland and USA, i can assure you it is very hard to get a wolfdog from this man, 101 questions, he googles your post code to see where you live, he wants to know all about your life style, kids, animals, as i work and am away for 5 hrs a day he insisted i build an outdoor kennel and excercice area and that i also got another dog to keep the wolfdog company when i was at work, i have a labrador as well which he insisted i got castrated,,he treats everyone the same when vetting and only sells to best homes,,,,,,,,,,if you live in uk then email ronnie he wont eat you, and you can arrange visit to see his dogs and you can go into large enclosure with a pack of wolfdogs it is an experience you will never forget,,,,,,,james.

And mixing Czechoslovakian wolfdog with a wolf is NOT a purebred breeding. It is making of hybrids and none of decent CsW breeders will ever do it or say it is ok to do it.

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

And mixing Czechoslovakian wolfdog with a wolf is NOT a purebred breeding. It is making of hybrids and none of decent CsW breeders will ever do it or say it is ok to do it.

maybe you need to look closer to home and see who does the same in your country because it has been done many times by many breeders over the years, the big difference with ronnie is he does not defruad people not like breeders in Europe who register x bred czechoslovakian wolfdogs with FCI............YOU KNOW IT HAPPENS AND SO DO WE ALL......so dont slate him for something he does and loves, look at his dogs they are out of this world, people from Europe own many of his wolfdogs, dont mix the jealousy of some people with people who dont like the fact that the czechoslovakian wolfdogs are in the uk,,,,,,,,ronnie complained about a bitch owned by Alunimum kennels in Italy,that had been used for breeding 10 times in 11yrs, first litter at under 1 year and 4 litters by the time she was only 2.5 yrs old, he was told to mind his own buisness and that the laws in Europe where different to uk, but this is not breeding its abuse of an animal, ronnie was banned for he would not let this matter drop, RONA was the main person think it was because ronnie said if all the litters are here on wolfdog.org then why did the moderators or people who do the data base not report this matter,,,,,,he was also called a liar by Rona years ago about de louba tar kennels ,,,,,,so happens ronnie was correct and de louba tar puppy mill was shut by authorites ,,,,,,,,,,dont condem this guy because he wants new bloodlines and used mother nature and one of his czechwolfdogs, the joke is he done it for breeders in Europe,,,,,,,,,,,

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by kalcon

maybe you need to look closer to home and see who does the same in your country because it has been done many times by many breeders over the years, the big difference with ronnie is he does not defruad people not like breeders in Europe who register x bred czechoslovakian wolfdogs with FCI............YOU KNOW IT HAPPENS AND SO DO WE ALL......

Following this way of thinking - I can shoot people on the streets. Oh, yeah I can. It happens everywhere, right? No one can point it out against me because others are doing so as well....
Well, I see Mr Winder had used this argument many times before, so he thinks that gives he right to cross. I prefer to compare myself with people better than me, not the worse ones...

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by hedeon

Following this way of thinking - I can shoot people on the streets. Oh, yeah I can. It happens everywhere, right? No one can point it out against me because others are doing so as well....
Well, I see Mr Winder had used this argument many times before, so he thinks that gives he right to cross. I prefer to compare myself with people better than me, not the worse ones...

you are very correct PATRYK and ronnie doesnt live to far from you my friend and he knows everyone in uk with wolfdogs and the people you have been contacting,,,,,,,,buy the way how do you like the uk? small world Patryk isnt it,,,,,,,

[Murph]

Originally Posted by kalcon

you are very correct PATRYK and ronnie doesnt live to far from you my friend and he knows everyone in uk with wolfdogs and the people you have been contacting,,,,,,,,buy the way how do you like the uk? small world Patryk isnt it,,,,,,,

...........lol!!