Galiba guilty ??

[admin]

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

Then what are you waiting for these tests?
Galiba that passed away?

I can not go to Hungary. I can not ask for the blood - especially that the breeder is against the tests.

The ONLY people who can make it are the owners of the puppies - they can ask for it OFFICIALLY due to the fact that the whole can IS suspicious.

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

and yet when I read the many posts I really feel that we are in full Judgement without evidence, with little chance to defend themselves properly because even openly asking what evidence we have, things n 'no change, worse, they get worse with each new "discoveries" to each new revelation unfounded, just based on "one says" ......

Please read the topic once again.

There are red puppies born. IT IS A FACT. The b-colour NEVER existed by our breed. SECOND FACT. The parents of the red puppies are Crying Wolf CsW. THIRD FACT. And the Saarloos was/is living by the CW breeder is another fact.

That the cages by CW are not "Wolfdog-proof" and that the breeder is AFFRAID to make any DNA tests are just another small facts. And there is much much more...

Do you have another explanation how the red colour (bb) appeared by Crying Wolf and why it is present ONLY THERE?


I really undserstand the problem of Galiba-offspring owners BUT if we will not solve the problem NOW in few years we will have MUCH MORE "Galiba" offsprings. What will happend when (new) DNA tests will show that some offsprings of Galiba are Saarloos crossees? NOBODY WILL ASK THE OWNERS - nobody will care. The dogs - ALL OF THEM - will lose the pedigrees.
Do you want to be one of the people who will be responsible for it? We NOT.


The whole problem looks like this: you are trying to protect Galiba-offsprings owners. There is the possiblity that some of the dogs are mixes - and some not. It seems that some of them are kept for "guilty" deservedly.

What we are trying to do is to protect purebreed CsW-breeders. They do not want to breed mixes - and they really ask to mark ALL suspicious lines. Because they don't want to use ANY possible mixes. It is not about not using the CW dogs or dogs from any other kennels. But abnout not using any untypical dogs which can be a mix.
If you will ask the breeders you will consider that there was no such casee for MANY years in Germany, Czech Republic or Slovakia. The same apply as far I know to Lithuania and Poland. It was sure that the dogs bred there are pure. But now also this pure populations can be destroyed - "thanks" to the French and Hungarian mixes.

My suggestion: WE can not do anything. We are not a organization. But the breed clubs in the origin countries ARE. Ask them for help - they can speak with the Hungarian kennel club and send a breeding comittee with veterinarian who will OFFICIALLY take the blood of the suspiciousd dogs. I think they will be interested due to the fact that some of the suspicious dogs are living also in CZ and SK.

So far I like the behaviour of two male owners: Juri and Issar. Thanks to it the cases of "Y" and "P" litter from Crying Wolf can be solved pretty fast. The blood of Juri is as far I know already stored. So the owners of the "P"-litter can test their dogs. Mother of this litter - Yolka - was sold to "nowhere". But the second owner - of Issar - Sona Bognarova is was prepared to offer the blood of Issar for testing. So the "Y"-CW owners will have the possiblity to test their dogs too.
It do not solve the "real" problem of "Galiba" offsprings but at least few CW owners will have the possiblity to sleep calm.

[ArImInIuM]

Originally Posted by Admin

There are red puppies born. IT IS A FACT. The b-colour NEVER existed by our breed. SECOND FACT. The parents of the red puppies are Crying Wolf CsW. THIRD FACT. And the Saarloos was/is living by the CW breeder is another fact.




I really undserstand the problem of Galiba-offspring owners BUT if we will not solve the problem NOW in few years we will have MUCH MORE "Galiba" offsprings. What will happend when (new) DNA tests will show that some offsprings of Galiba are Saarloos crossees? NOBODY WILL ASK THE OWNERS - nobody will care. The dogs - ALL OF THEM - will lose the pedigrees.
Do you want to be one of the people who will be responsible for it? We NOT.


The whole problem looks like this: you are trying to protect Galiba-offsprings owners. There is the possiblity that some of the dogs are mixes - and some not. It seems that some of them are kept for "guilty" deservedly.

What we are trying to do is to protect purebreed CsW-breeders. They do not want to breed mixes - and they really ask to mark ALL suspicious lines. Because they don't want to use ANY possible mixes. It is not about not using the CW dogs or dogs from any other kennels. But abnout not using any untypical dogs which can be a mix.
If you will ask the breeders you will consider that there was no such casee for MANY years in Germany, Czech Republic or Slovakia. The same apply as far I know to Lithuania and Poland. It was sure that the dogs bred there are pure. But now also this pure populations can be destroyed - "thanks" to the French and Hungarian mixes.


.

Now I ask this question:
Are you sure that there is no other red puppies in other farms but these farms have not declared the puppies to avoid being put in default?
I've seen in other races unreported atypical color not to be excluded from probgrammes dde selection with the fear of being misjudged.
I highly doubt that e is only the fault of the French and Hungarian, sorry ...
seen the mess that it has a transaprence from a French breeder, I highly doubt that another breeder make such a statement one day seamlessly, because even me, if such a thing happened, I do not show everyone. I have two more of Galiba down, so more reason not to other descendants in the Tourment.
by against, what I would do is a DNA test with the search for gene "B" on my four dogs and do my comparison.
as I put on a French post, looking at best practice, the possibility of a marriage to some accidental Dvorak (the Saarloos) would represent more than one dog on worries Because of this litter were born 3 males but only one has reproduced Sibir and if this is the case( sirius and siegfried and reported no puppies), you can pay tribute to the farm that has been transparent, because with this statement, we could isolate the problem now and not in 10 years.
before condemning all the descendants of Galibi, do not you think it would be simpler to test in the first place the marriage with flash crying wolf?

[Juri Z.P.]

publicly here.

DNA profiles from juri is at laborklin :-)!

I pay the DNA of my puppy!!!

I hope so sign up owners ...

owners from Juri Puppy "P" ....
please contact me :-)

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Juri Z.P.

publicly here.

DNA profiles from juri is at laborklin :-)!

I pay the DNA of my puppy!!!

I hope so sign up owners ...

owners from Juri Puppy "P" ....
please contact me :-)

What a great attitude!

[Rona]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

What a great attitude!

Exactly! Transparent and cooperative!

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Admin

But there is also (almost) no possibility that Galiba is Saarloos mix - he was born 2002.01.14. Dvorack (the Saarloos) on 05/10/2003 - we have no information when he joined the CW pack but basing on this information we can say that the CW litter A (1999.02.03) - M (2004.01.31) are pure. In fact there were also no untypical characteristics appearing by the offsprings of those dogs.

For sure Galiba is not a SWH mix!
I did bring Dvorack on 10-04-2004 to CZ (you even can see this in gallery: http://www.wolfdog.org/site/nl/gallery/cat/5/0/78 )
And a few weeks later Dvorack did join the CW pack in Hungary.

[massimo]

I have seen Dvorak many times and from what I remember he should be sterilized since years and he is younger than Galiba.
Don't you think we are really hunting down ghosts? getting proper info instead of spreading shit around would be more appropriate, don't you think?

I really do NOT think that you are investigating on the right direction...