Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs-Australia

[Ligerwolve2]

Sorry replied but missed some earlier posts.

Wolves, thank goodness you at least got a male and female PHEW! Hope you are desexing one though?

Actually while WSS and GSDs select for brown eyes amber is not that uncommon. Nor such a large fault that you wont see it at shows etc.

Yes you can actually see entire litters looking similar whether a mix or not.

I hope your dogs are pure. I really do but the breeder NEEDS to find out. Even just to protect themself since they have advertised as such.

How exciting for you to have some puppies You will not be able to tell hips and elbows untill after a certain age and ONLY by x-ray which needs to be sent to specific people to read. Many vets will tell you they can just "tell" or that they can read the x-ray. Thats absolutely bull. They CANNOT! Because Im assuming the parents havent been done (correct me if Im wrong) you really should for peace of mind and you can actually help with severity perhaps if you know its going to happen.

Eyes again a specialist is needed. I think I have the contact details for one in Sydney and they travel to Canberra. I think they suggest you wait till after 12 months for these tests but I will leave that to CzW breeders here to confirm.

You will also get certificates for these and then no one can argue with you

I wish you all the luck with your two and hope you have put in place a solid socialisation plan.

It only takes one dog to snap at someone and its all over the news. That "pure" CzWs are viscious and a call WILL come to ban them.

Then because people couldnt be bothered or wait no one will be able to own them and all the dogs here will be required to either follow DD laws or be PTS. Not just that but in VIC a person has to PROVE their dog isnt a pitbull. Anything that is like a bull breed is being targeted in the most horrible way. They will seize a dog without asking and you will have to provide proof which without papers basically you cant.

PLEASE be responsible!

[Ligerwolve2]

Also even with lions a zoo wont breed without knowing whats in the DNA (no you cant do that by looking and saying looks like a nice lion). No matter how endangered they wont breed till they see that DNA.

I know a white lion who is just magnificent, beautiful! He will never sire a litter as they SUSPECT he carries back problems. They cant prove it but they will never risk it.

Thats how good responsible breeders work.

[Ligerwolve2]

One more post I promise!

Do you know the PTS rate for Australia of unwanted dogs?

Yeah.

With eyes I know there are cases of GSDs with amber eyes, but it's rare. I've never seen a WSS with amber eyes, but I'm sure some do. But these cases are few and far between and they're a fault. Most would put it down to weak genetics in that area making the eyes have less pigmentation then they should. But given these cases are so rare, I think it's far more likely the amber eyes in these dogs came from Czw.

Both my male and female were desexed last week, haha. The breeder was responsible and made sure no one bought a pup unless agreeing that they wouldn't breed them with any other dogs, other than another czw if there are more imported in the future.

I think they're pure. The pedigree definitely proves it. But anyone who claims they're not pure, should support that with evidence. And if they have none, then they really should be quite, because if these dogs are proven pure, which I think is a high chance, anyone who claimed they weren't pure, is open to being sued for defamation.

My main point with the lion analogy was to point out that a lion is a lion, it's not a lion because its registered with a particular organisation. It's a lion because of its genetics, and the only way to know that fully, is genetic testing.

Also in answer to your question, the czw here in Aus now definitely haven't damaged anything, I cant speak for the other pups, but I know personally our two dogs create widespread interest in the breed wherever they go.

[Ligerwolve2]

Its not rare at all. Common and considered a minor fault so a dog with pale eyes can still win first place IF they have more going for them. I can say this first hand. I breed GSDs. Amber eyes is not perfect but construction, temp etc is more important.

I wont say the dogs arent pure BUT I think the breeder really should find out for sure. Especially since they advertised them as pure, not as maybe.

It would really go along way.

I think our definition of a responsible breeder are very different. Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here.

I hope they are just inexperienced. From what I understand quite unprepared. So there is a lot to be done and I really hope they do. I really hope they do the right thing.

No breeding without putting in the effort is simply adding to the number of PTS in this country. No I dont think they are putting in the effort especially with screening potential puppies or taking responsibility for the impact they are having on the breed.

Just putting two dogs together and then selling them for that kind of price with no work is NOT responsible. Telling people they should desex unless putting to another CzW even though these have not been concluded pure is not responsible. Its called "backyard breeding".

So perhaps you can tell me, what tests did he have done and with who? What was his program to produce happy puppies and were they microchipped vet checked, vaccinated and wormed before you recieved them? What age did he sell them and the parents what has been done with these?

What is his goal in breeding?

Any breeder worth their salt can answer these.

Actually given the breeder admitted to a dog possibly being a mix and then advertising as pure is liable. Nothing wrong with anyone saying they could be crosses given this admission. Not only that but I believe on that site they specify people advertise as mixes or pure. One must know for sure their dog is pure. Knowing there is a chance its not is false advertising and the company will pull the ad.

You can "think" they are pure but cannot be said for sure and in this country thats a mix.

Have you ever noticed pounds, RSPCA etc always say cross even when its almost certain its not? Do you know why? Because they have and will be taken to court, bad mouthed etc if it turns out otherwise. Unless an animal has the PROPER papers it is not pure but seen as a BYB or cross.

So again its a REALLY good idea for them to do something. Get the dogs recognised with proper papers, DNA test what ever. Untill then these dogs are unfortunately regarded as crosses.

Wouldnt you love to see your dogs papered? Then you can say without ANY doubt they are pure. No one could argue with you!

Again a small amounst of WSS generations ago to most people would make no difference in looks. Absolutely they could be crosses and if I were you Id listen to those who have so much experience. Yes people can be very defensive of the breed and annoy the heck out of you but you should still be listening.

Why I brought lions back up as yes they are lions (although you may not be able to tell what kind of lions without DNA) but NO zoo would EVER breed UNTILL DNA had been done. No breeder in doubt should EVER breed untill they know for sure. The number one reason being they would want to know the genetic history health wise.

The dogs are pure. As I've said, the pedigree shows it. Genetic testing? Does every other breeder do genetic testing? Why should these dogs have DNA tests, when they've got a pedigree that shows they're pure, just like any other pure czw has. I don't know why you still put "pure" in quotes in reference to these dogs, when they've got a pedigree.

"Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here." What do you mean by that?

The breeder said MAYBE the male was a mix, but that was only to the people on these forums after they'd being saying they were mixes. There is no reason to suggest the male is a mix. I've seen him and he's a beautiful example of the breed.

As I've said time and time again. I'm not going to listen to anyone unless they have proof. I don't care what experience they have without proof they're points are meaningless. It's very arrogant of them to say that someone's dogs aren't pure without proof. They're also setting themselves up well to be sued if these dogs are pure.

I remember when I was getting my pups, I noticed more slanderous talk about them on the DOL forums, where you talked about your wolfdog.

"The people that were breeding them are pretty private about them and dont sell to the public. Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks. Its not a official breed. Czechoslovakian Shepherds was the term they were using. Many years have passed though so I have no idea what they are doing now"

Firstly, "Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks" CzW weren't bred for looks either.

The breeder was very private? That doesn't sound very legitimate to me. Why were they so private? Were they even registered? Did they have pedigrees?

But then again pedigrees to show they're "pure" wouldn't even matter anyway as there is no such thing as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd.

Also from what I can gather you said they were Wolfdogs, but their name was Czechoslovakian Shepherd? A shepherd and a wolfdog are two different things.

Seems to me like nothing but a scam. I wonder what your definition of "responsible breeder" is...