Mixes in 'La Louve Blanche' kennel?

[Wolfsirius]

Maybe in this foto above C'Pouchka have something similarity in exterior with Vorss? http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7424

-Suski

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Backman

And I trust Frank, and just to prove you are all wrong I will take DNA test to prove Crying Wolf Volos is father to Dream Wolf.
I think this is really ridicoulus.

I believe the father can be Volos.. but the mother? You can proof that th emother is really her.. but is her a pure CzW?
That's the question.

I'm sorry you trusth Frank, I will never trusth a breeder that have such actitud.

Originally Posted by Mijke

see for example Iary and Icky:

If you see hole litter have some little differences, biggest difference in Iary is the coat, you can find some pbrothers with differents coat leght, but look the body and head, is pretty similar to all brothers and sisters, as they all have at little bit of tipicity for the breed at least.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by furyos

yu have doubts for blazy and blue .. not twinn sure .. but go to boheme on database and see more same type (compare female with female and male with male please for morphotype) .. well for c 'pouchka sure she 's darker ... but do yu see Balrog from first litter ??? for clearly coat yu can see ckinai and cyrcee (same than blasy/blue/boheme)... . just a question do yu know enigmatik and genetik in a new breed in construction???

I know and i see in wolfdogs parents and children look similar. And in your kennel is not and some litter not look like parents. blasy/blue/boheme look like crying wolf and parents. and c litter is different. Not very much wolfdog and not crying wolf look. C'Pouchka is best example.

here is blue. for me real son of ossa and merlin


and here is C'Pouchka. Sister to Blue.


do you see one thing who is same by C'Pouchka and Blue, merlin and ossa? because for me both dogs have nothing similar. Different colour, head, body and coat. Also Cyrcée is different as parents too. Different as b litter and parents.

Originally Posted by furyos

for dream 'wolf yu have devil grey /demoniak diamond and darween in same litter ....all different BUT so so wolfish and so so nice .... ???

Problem is for me Dream wolf not look WOLFISH but like mix like on american sites about wolfdog mixes. Same mask i see by italian mixes with canadian wolf because dog have goggles like your dog. why no dogs in crying wolf and by no other breeders wolfdog have goggles. only by you?

show me other wolfdog with googles like on this picture

mask and googles like some saarloos

[Rona]

I wonder how would an honest breeder, who has always followed the FCI/AKC breeding principles react/behave if somebody accused him/her of breeding mixes or faking pedigrees...

I imagine the first reaction would be anger, but what would be the next step? Ignore the accusations? Take the case to the Kennel Club or to court ? Make the DNA tests of the dogs/pups and ...pay for them?

I'm trying to figure out what would be the most pragmatic and psychologically rational reaction to such accusation

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

That reminds me at the "Tour de France" (what a coincidence), where all the athletes especially the winners claiming not been on Clenbuterol or other substances.
And of course the positive blood tests lie, they're all honest athletes...
All these slanderers.
By the way, in Heigenbrücken/Germany where Franck took part at the club show with the above mentioned dogs my friend Sona Bognárova and I realized instantly that dogs where American wolfdog crosses.
It's all too visible.

Michael

[admin]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

That reminds me at the "Tour de France" (what a coincidence), where all the athletes especially the winners claiming not been on Clenbuterol or other substances.
And of course the positive blood tests lie, they're all honest athletes...
All these slanderers.
By the way, in Heigenbrücken/Germany where Franck took part at the club show with the above mentioned dogs my friend Sona Bognárova and I realized instantly that dogs where American wolfdog crosses.
It's all too visible.

Michael

I think it is visible even more since the breeder feels untouchable by the French kennel club and cheats more and more pedigrees. There is already no doubt that he is producing AWD with CsW pedigrees. It is a fact - also this "athlete" use Clenbuterol. A LOT OF IT...

I think we can easily put ALL de la Louve Blanche dogs as MIXES (since it is not known which are purebreed and which one are mixes - or better said: we have no idea if there are still at least some dogs which are PUREBREED there). Not in the database but in our minds - he is cheating the pedigrees. It is sure. So the whole name of this kennel, all pedigrees coming from this kennel and all kennels using his dogs are worth NOTHING. They are just useless piece of paper....

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

I wonder how would an honest breeder, who has always followed the FCI/AKC breeding principles react/behave if somebody accused him/her of breeding mixes or faking pedigrees...

I only bean accused for having a F1 Hybrid mix ones, I asked him to call the police and I would wait right there, I also had pedigree copy that I did show him, but he did say the paper was a fake and he was not stupid
It was Swedens biggest holiday ( Midsummer ), so he did say the police will not come all the way out to us in the archipelago, but he was not stupid, he knew it was a F1 Hybrid At this point it was over 30 people looking how this would end, and the man was drunk and angery... I was calm and had not bean drinking at all, so when I did take up my id for him to write of the id number he desided to walk away still very very agery...

But in Sweden, we are accused from the begining by the Swedish Kennel Club, we MUST DNA test all Cs Vlcaks and Saarloos to get the pure FCI pedigree No other dog breeds need to do that...

Very best regards / Mikael

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But in Sweden, we are accused from the begining by the Swedish Kennel Club, we MUST DNA test all Cs Vlcaks and Saarloos to get the pure FCI pedigree .

It's not bad... if such requirement existed in other countries there wouldn't be problem with breeding mixes now. Well, unless the tests were conducted honestly

I don't think Frank realizes how much harm he's doing to all honest French breeders by refusing 'DNA confrontation'. Many good owners/breeders (not the wolf maniacs!) from other countries, who aren't particularly knowledgeable in lines, pedigrees, standard, kennels, etc., but who want a typical, pure bred CSV might give up buying a French pup just to be on the safe side
It would be a pity - I rememeber after visiting French club show Margo and Daiva wrote on the Polish WD there were some interesting breeding dogs desceding from ancestors imported to France years ago. The lines which 'disappeared' in the the Czech Republic and Slovakia but survived in France might be valuable for breed diversification now. Provided foreign breeders are not afraid to use them now...

[draggar]

The issue with dalmatians is that that 100% of them have some genetic issue (kidney failure?) and back in the late 70's or 80's the crossed in one generation of another breed and it cured them of this issue.

Even now, the dogs from that project, even though 99.99% dalmatian are not allowed to be registered as a dalmatian. The reason being is because the majority of the club don't want their advantage taken away. Allowing these dogs in would be a huge benefit and make the breed healthier.

It can go either way. It all depends on how the majority of the club members (or officers?) feel.

Yet other "breeds" thrive on being mixes and want to get acceptance (Inuits) or want their own selective breeding program to be it's own breed (Shiloh Shepherds).

Other times mixed litters are born and paper work is falsified. I know of a malinois / Dutch Shepherd litter but the "breeder" sold them all off as pure malinois (he even got someone who is very well known to sign off on the paperwork so they could get them registered as pure).

Its getting harder to even tell if "purebreds" if they real purebreds or not.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by draggar

Its getting harder to even tell if "purebreds" if they real purebreds or not.

Very soon it will be very very easy, in 10 years of time we will probably have DNA test on every litter on every breed

Very best regards / M

[GalomyOak]

Lol...AKC already registers these dogs - we call them "All American Dogs", Jing. We only need to give them breeding rights.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Lol...AKC already registers these dogs - we call them "All American Dogs", Jing. We only need to give them breeding rights.

Congrats goes to the AKC then! But they must modify the name... surely these "All American Dogs" have equal fans in other countries and an arguable claim in this breed's foundation.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi Sasha,

can't you get someone of the SKJ having a chat with the FCI guys.
I know that Mr Stefik has quite a lot of influence in the FCI.
It could be organized through the Slovakian club, since Slovakia is the garant of the breed...

Michael

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi Sasha,

can't you get someone of the SKJ having a chat with the FCI guys.
I know that Mr Stefik has quite a lot of influence in the FCI.
It could be organized through the Slovakian club, since Slovakia is the garant of the breed...

Michael

Yes good idea Michael, chat with FCI, French club CBEI, SCC ......

Why not speak about this at the world dog show .....

[saschia]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi Sasha,

can't you get someone of the SKJ having a chat with the FCI guys.
I know that Mr Stefik has quite a lot of influence in the FCI.
It could be organized through the Slovakian club, since Slovakia is the garant of the breed...

Michael

I'll bring this topic to the attention of the club. I hope Oskar and Stefik will think something out. But remember the problems we had with Mutaras? This might turn out the same way.

[admin]

Originally Posted by saschia

I'll bring this topic to the attention of the club. I hope Oskar and Stefik will think something out. But remember the problems we had with Mutaras? This might turn out the same way.

No, it is something totally different. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Mutaras were registered in Italy on the official way. Maybe it is moral not correct and maybe the Italian judges were wrong registering them as Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and not "Saarloos wolfhounds" but the dogs were registered according the FCI rules (telling about the registries). It is why it was not possuble to remove the pedigrees of the dogs. But also why we can easily follow all the Saarloos_CsW mixes living and bred in Italy.

What apply by Italian dogs is the European law about the protected speces and wild dangerous animals saing that for keeping the F1-F4 mixes you nee special permissions.

French case is something totally different. The hybrids are not put in the register but they were registered thanks to CHEATING - with falsification of the FCI pedigrees. And it IS breaking of the FCI regulations and a FRAUD. FCI and SCC must do anything with it if they want to keep their reliability. If they will ignore this case NONE of the FCI pedigrees can be taken serious as it would show that you can fabricate the pedigrees and nobody by SCC or FCI cares for it.

Second: in some cases the animals are F1 and F2 which are forbiden to keep without any permissions. So it is also breaking of the European Union law for keeping of the wild animals (it was already mentioned here).