Long Coat - Genetic Problem?

[elf]

Kingston K. L. Mak and Siu Yuen Chan (2003)
Epidermal Growth Factor as a Biologic switch in Hair Growth Cycle
Journal of Biological Chemistry; - Vol 278 No 28 pp 26120-26126.

D. J. E. Housley, P. J. Venta (2006)
The long and the short of it: evidence that FGF5 is a major determinant of canine 'hair'-itability
Animal Genetics 37 (4), 309–315.

Some updates in coat lenght area, two more genes identified:

Science. 2009 Oct 2;326(5949):150-3. Epub 2009 Aug 27.
Coat variation in the domestic dog is governed by variants in three genes.

Cadieu E, Neff MW, Quignon P, Walsh K, Chase K, Parker HG, Vonholdt BM, Rhue A, Boyko A, Byers A, Wong A, Mosher DS, Elkahloun AG, Spady TC, André C, Lark KG, Cargill M, Bustamante CD, Wayne RK, Ostrander EA.

National Human Genome Research Institute, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA.
Abstract

Coat color and type are essential characteristics of domestic dog breeds. Although the genetic basis of coat color has been well characterized, relatively little is known about the genes influencing coat growth pattern, length, and curl. We performed genome-wide association studies of more than 1000 dogs from 80 domestic breeds to identify genes associated with canine fur phenotypes. Taking advantage of both inter- and intrabreed variability, we identified distinct mutations in three genes, RSPO2, FGF5, and KRT71 (encoding R-spondin-2, fibroblast growth factor-5, and keratin-71, respectively), that together account for most coat phenotypes in purebred dogs in the United States. Thus, an array of varied and seemingly complex phenotypes can be reduced to the combinatorial effects of only a few genes.

[hanninadina]

I did not notice that there is such a thread. But the difference between pure wolves and wolfdogs is that the wolves have "long" coat - in wintertime - and the wolfdogs in the same time do not have. So the "miky lin" is from that point a well done breed because she is in line with wolves.

Christian

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I did not notice that there is such a thread. But the difference between pure wolves and wolfdogs is that the wolves have "long" coat - in wintertime - and the wolfdogs in the same time do not have. So the "miky lin" is from that point a well done breed because she is in line with wolves.

Christian

Please, show me at least ONE wolf with this coat.



And sorry, if your wolfdogs have the same coat lenght in the winter, so they're really outstandard, when even mine wolfdogs (wich not pass for a strong winter) have a huge change in the coat lenght and density.

[Morian]

Nebulosa, he looks like veeery wolfish collie

Monika, "Long hair is exterier problem" are your words. Thank you for these genes from Russia...

[wolfin]

But as interesing only Carpatianian wolf, not Arctic or Mexican,
Wolfdog have Carpatian wolf blood and we mas see this wolf hair, not others wolfs.

Originally Posted by Chinook

Well, concerning the hair length of wolves; I've been doing some measuring. The summer fur of the wild Arctic wolf i've measured (upper fur, guard hair), is along the spine area longer; around 13/14 cm., the tailhair is about 17 cm, hair on the muzzle is very short and on top of the head a little longer. The hair on the legs is pretty short too. The underfur is very wooly and about half as long as the upper fur and very dense. The hair is not fluffy-silky like a collies.

It seems to me that in wolves it's a matter of different species, like there's the Mexican wolf, Carpathian wolf, Arctic wolf. The fur of the Mexican wolf is shorter than the fur of the Arctic wolf. Next to that, it has to do with the climate and of course the genes each wolf has inherited individually, just like some people can have longer hair than others. Probably the same goes for thickness of fur.

Also look at this winter coat of the Arctic Wolf: When you look at some pictures in the book of Mech you can see the winterfur is longer than 15 cm (Sorry, somehow i cannot send these photos to this site).

Chinook

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by indiananous

Using no more sires who made long haired puppies, it's like hiding our face in the sand, as the ostrich does.

You might think so, but it is clear, that there is certain problem and it would not hurt anyone, to stop using the sire for a while and search solutions. It is not advisable anyways, to mate the same dog again and again, it shrinks the gene pool of the population in the area (or even country).

Originally Posted by indiananous

That means it would be necessary to mate ASTA with others dogs, to know if long hair appears once more, and do the same concerning ART with others females. All of this to compare the genetic and, PERHAPS, find a respons. !!!

Yes. I find it perfectly normal, especially for Asta. Is there a problem with that? If we agree, that long-haired CSW´s are non-standard then it is logical to search a way to produce normal haired puppies.

Originally Posted by indiananous

But, only two couples ? That's impossible !
We, breeders, are now face to face with real problems among the c.s.w ; we have to try to resolve them. And that means to be clear concerning our puppie's malformations. I've tried many times to discuss about that with others french breeders, but...they NEVER have been concerned in any disease or anything bad !!! Great, isnt't ? My bag was just empty of critics about my kennel....

Well, here we are talking and we are definatelly concerned. But from talking eventually we have to come to "doing", unless there will be no change.

Originally Posted by indiananous

When I first met the c.s.w at Mirka's kennel, I really felt in love seeing Asterix eden Severu. I made a promess to myself : once, i'll have a dog like he.

If you like the dog, it´s ok. But for the others who do not know Asterix Eden Severu, I must say that the dog is heavy build, has strong dysplasia and heavy head. By no means it is ideal CSW or a dog with wolfish look or movement. His bonitation code says it too: A70,5 D5 F2 I8 Of P5 And I say this despite the fact that Asterix´s owner is my good friend.

Originally Posted by indiananous

I'll try to find you pictures of a long haired csw with his summer coat.

Good, I am eager to see that.

I still think, despite the genetic debates here, that if Art carries the gene for long hair, and so does Asta, it is not wise to mate them together again.
If I was owner of both of those dogs, I´d stop breeding Art and I´d search male from different blood for Asta, perhaps of Slovak origin. And I would not consider myself ostrich at all.

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Dharkwolf

It is very easy to select against. All you need to do is look at a dog (not a photo) to see whether a dog has excessively long fur or not.
...... If you cannot select against such obvious faults, then the ability to select against more subtle (and possibly more serious faults) is likely to be called in question, it can and will damage your reputation as a breeder. So don’t do it!

Thank you for you explanations, but i think your conclusions is the best : easy and clever, you wrote down in good english my thoughts

But "you shouldn't speak if you don't have produced almost 100 puppies ! "

[Huan]

I think there should be also mentioned one thing. There is a different quality of the coat too. The Czechoslovakian wolfdog should have a hard coat which is similar to goat coat and it shouldn't be soft. There is even a fault on bonitation card for dogs with too soft hair but most of the judges do not pay much attention to it. This is very important when we have a dog with long hair because this characteristics is much more visible. This would be interesting if the collie-like dogs still have a typical hard coat like normal CzWs - I bet they haven't.