In season...

[GalomyOak]

Thank you everyone, for your responses!

My GSD came into heat the other day (when I first wrote on this thread). She is like a clock every 6 months (she has never been bred), so I wondered if Anthea would soon be following her. And she did - her first heat started yesterday. I think it will be a long week for my poor male, Roni. He misses his women!

Now I think I have some idea of what to expect!

Marcy

[Vaiva]

Topic up

As we started talking about how bad it is to hide or just not to talk about the problems that CsW have... I want to talk about the problems with the reproductional system of some of our girls.
In my case, Brukne first went on heat being 23 months old (March 200 after staying for a week wit her sister. I wasn't planning to mate her on the first heat, so I didn't care too much about the progesteron levels or smth, just noticed, that males weren't too interested in her at that time. After a year she came on heat again. This time we were checking the progesteron and taking swabs, but it seemed, that she wasn't trying to ovulate. Finally, the vet said, she is not on heat anymore (it is a pitty, we didn't make a progesteron test then, because after ovulation - in case it happened but we missed one - it increases a lot). After that we gave her some ovarium compositum injections - it is a homeopatic medicine, helping with reproductive system. In autumn, we gave her some more of it and vitamins A and E, which should gently push her in going on heat. Nothing She started to "mark" outside sometimes, I made some progesteron tests, thinking, this could be a silent heat, but no, nothing. Echoscopy shows she is a healthy female, also she is in a good form, but living with no other dogs. Still she meets her male friend Argentinian dog nearly every day. We are waiting for another heat to come and really nervous we could miss the ovulation or that she will not ovulate again... And I know there are more bitches like Brukne (still her sisters, at least two of three, are having normal heats). Does anyone has any advices or comments, "recipes" or success stories in this case or similar situations? Thanks.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

As we started talking about how bad it is to hide or just not to talk about the problems that CsW have... I want to talk about the problems with the reproductional system of some of our girls.

I had different problem with Frei - instead of no ovulation / silent heat and not much interest of dogs, she had long proestrus with a lot of interest from males, and with coming to heat twice a year she was almost half of the year unable to play with her male friends as they were only trying to mate her. When I wanted her to mate, I went to doc for vaginal swabs and later for progesterone to be able to time the trip (I went around 900 km for mating), and the progress from proestrus to estrus was very long. But then her behavior changed suddenly from general interest in playing with males to strong standing heat and that day also her progesterone jumped to correct levels. We went for mating and were successful... The next heat we did not mate as it was only 10 months after previous, but this time her proestrus was shorter (less than 3 weeks) and she finished the standing heat just a month after starting the bleeding (but she bled and smelled nice to dogs for another couple of weeks). So I am not sure if the pregnancy was good for her or if the reproduction develops with age regardless of pregnancy. But I know that her great-grandmother (my previous wolfdog) and one female from my first litter also had very long proestrus, so it might run in the families.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Chaos Zlata palz always had problems with her heat, she got in heat and stopped before ovulation, they tried to give her much contact to males but even this didn´t help. They went to an endocrinology specialist and they found out she was showing hyperthyreodistic levels in her bloodcheck. Hyperthyreosis normally doesn´t exist in dogs and she was perfectly healthy, out of experience the specialist checked her diet and found out that her owners were feeding the throat part of cattles as a treat regulary. This part contains the thyreoid gland of the cattle, fed regulary it pushes the dog into an artificial Hyperthyreosis. After they changed the diet she got into regular heat, was mated without problems and got a healthy litter.

Also very often a reason for prolonged heat with no or still ovulation: not contact to males or a dominant female close by. We have to separate Amy from her mother or she stops her heat at once. Her mother isn´t dominating her at all, she is just higher in rank.

Ina

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by saschia

When I wanted her to mate, I went to doc for vaginal swabs and later for progesterone to be able to time the trip (I went around 900 km for mating), and the progress from proestrus to estrus was very long.

How often did you do the progesteron tests?
Brukne's sister from the same litter has the similar heat as your Frei, just it seems like she will not be used in breeding. Both girls could change the way they come on heats

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

This part contains the thyreoid gland of the cattle, fed regulary it pushes the dog into an artificial Hyperthyreosis. After they changed the diet she got into regular heat, was mated without problems and got a healthy litter.

Aaa... maybe there's any information about some other parts of cattle that also can put a dog in same conition? Brukne is fed raw meat, sea fish and sour milk products, maybe there ight be something wrong in her diet? Maybe giving the necks of turkeys or chicken may cause the same problem?

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Also very often a reason for prolonged heat with no or still ovulation: not contact to males or a dominant female close by. We have to separate Amy from her mother or she stops her heat at once. Her mother isn´t dominating her at all, she is just higher in rank.

Ina

Could a human be considered a "dominant female"?... One of our vets nearly called me an idiot after this kind of question, but still

[Rona]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Her mother isn´t dominating her at all, she is just higher in rank.

Is it possible that if a female lives in a pack of humans, she might recognize her owners to be the Alpha couple and this could impede her ovulation?

****
Hihi, the same question asked independently!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Aaa... maybe there's any information about some other parts of cattle that also can put a dog in same conition? Brukne is fed raw meat, sea fish and sour milk products, maybe there ight be something wrong in her diet?

very often you get those parts mixed into the raw dog food you can buy already mashed, after I learned about this problem I look very carefully which part of animal is used for the mixture.

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Could a human be considered a "dominant female"?... One of our vets nearly called me an idiot after this kind of question, but still

As dogs build up some very special kind of family-relations with humans I wouldn´t deny this in general. Even our female-wolf, who as a wolf doesn´t build up the same kind of bonding, is very submissiv against me now she comes in breading season, but she gets in heat. The breading season is the most dangerous time for humans with handraised wolves, so I think it is even much more likely for dogs that the human relationsship can have an influence on very few dogs.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

You can see the thyreoid glands and I never saw them on turkey or chicken necks.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

How often did you do the progesteron tests?

We went four times together - I think it was every third day or so... Too long ago for me to remeber exactly, to say the truth. I was beggining to get nervous, as my vet didn't like her to be bleeding for so long and tried to persuade me to give her hormones to end the heat. But I resisted, as I know from other breeders that some wolfdogs just have long heats and they are otherwise healthy... And than the change in behavior was so pronounced that I actually went for the test just to see how high her level was, and it was not so much higher... Last heat the behavior change was also very abrupt - so now I know that it is a safe marker with Frei and will not have to go for tests.. They are quite expensive in Slovakia, so Frei's pregnancy was almost a luxury for me from the financial standpoint.

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

...feeding the throat part of cattles as a treat regulary. This part contains the thyreoid gland of the cattle, fed regulary it pushes the dog into an artificial Hyperthyreosis

whew, I didn't know this... I feed Frei with the same part but pork, not for some time now, due to her being fat so she was on low-calories diet, but I was planning to get on feeding raw again... I will have her tested then, just to be sure. I don't think the gland was attached, but I'll check to make sure. Fortunately I prefer the unmixed version of pork throat as I thought there is too much lung tissue in the mixed and Frei tends to have diarrhea from too much lung/liver tissues...

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

You can see the thyreoid glands and I never saw them on turkey or chicken necks.

But parrots do have thyreoid glands in their necks, so are turkeys and chickens that much diferent?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

They have thyreoid glands but normally they sit deeper than in mammals - as far as I can remember, it´s very long time ago. But you see the gland it is sitting on the structures when the skin is gone. Chicken shouldn´t be such a problem cause it is not very big but if you feed several times a week the gland of a cattle it is like giving it as a drug.

[saschia]

But when you feed turkey and chicken necks it is usually only the spine, not the trachea, esophagus etc.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

But many people feed cattle throats which are still with Trachea and Oesophagus and on the Trachea sits the Thyreoidea

[Vaiva]

I've just read an article about the lack of iodine in the organism of people (this is a very important problem in LT, the lack of iodine, every time I go to doctors - and this is very rare in fact - they send me to check my thyroid ) Maybe there would be useful to put some extra iodine to dog's diet? Like dried seaweed on the daily meal? That could not make any harm

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

If you feed them saltwater fish this should be enough but giving a little bit more with seaweed won´t harm them.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

If you feed them saltwater fish this should be enough but giving a little bit more with seaweed won´t harm them.

Well, saltwater fish is not her favorite meal, so she gets it about two or four times a month, not sure if it is enought. Will try to add some more seaweeds too. Thanks

[Vaiva]

Hahaha, this is becoming a funny story
Checked Brukne's urine, done three different blood tests, echoscopy, swab... Checked also the thyroid. She is a perfectly healthy bitch Just she doesn't want to have kids yet. Emanicipation

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Emanicipation

Absolutely!!
As far as I know "Walkiria" means "Valkyrie" - an earthly warrior cannot waste her time with kids

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Angelika

Absolutely!!
As far as I know "Walkiria" means "Valkyrie" - an earthly warrior cannot waste her time with kids

Yes, and her name suits her so much We'll try to put some photos of little puppies around her and maybe some soft toys