British Kennel Club Recognition

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Tassle

Just a quick search on the Web came up with this, but this does not seem to be in relation to setting up a breed club, just standard rules that have to be adhered to *if* the KC get involved.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/480

Possibly Hedeon could email his contact and ask what rules have to be adhered to if setting up a breed club?

....That is if you want to go down the KC route?

lol i think his 'contact'as u put it is caroline kisko...ohh she has sibes lol!

[pixie]

We certainly need a comitee but not just breeders owners as well, and we have to have a sound membership procedure, so that people are vetted as best we can, and we definetly need to contact the KC to find out exact requirments for recognition

[Nebulosa]

Happyfeet and Blaidd banned for being clones also for start to act like an troll.
Topic cleaned as well, we can continue talking about CzW in Uk.

[Tazer]

Going back to a point made on the code of ethics, the following are just a few things that came to mind, with regards to breeders. More will probably follo.

That dogs/bitches to be used for breeding have some kind of assessment of their character. Wether that be a specific temperament test created by the club or, that they have to prove thmselves in areas such as obedience, working trials etc.

That breeders have their dog/bitches as a minimum hip scored and dm tested.

That all puppies are dna profiled. I'm also wondering if puppies should have some kind of id e.g microchip before they go to their new homes.

That bitches are a minimum of 2 years old before their first litter. I'm tempted to say the same for studs to...thoughts anyone?

That no bitch will be used for breeding after their 7th birthday.

That no breeder will use their dog/bitch to create mixes.

Then of course there's the obvious stuff like providing food, water, shelter, exercise, vet care and taking back any of the dogs/pups they've bred at anytime, for any reason, if the owner can't/will no longer keep them.

Has that yahoo/fb group been created yet?

Taz

[tupacs2legs]

Hi taz

Can u pm me your fb details please?

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Happyfeet and Blaidd banned for being clones also for start to act like an troll.
Topic cleaned as well, we can continue talking about CzW in Uk.

Yes,back on topic now... Thankyou nebulosa

[Nebulosa]

You have to take care with the rules for not turn too hard for the breeders chose different males, if you putas rule, for exemple, that all dogs used for breeding must have Elbows Displasy results or that they must be all N/N will be really hard for breeders to bring new blood and even for go to mate with different studs at other countries - something which will be REALLY needed, principally at the start of the breeding there -

Not only that, suppose you find an old dog from an very interesting line in your country, its an pure imported animal which the owner accepted to make the X rays, if there is as "rule" that the dog should have characer test and several dogshows it might make this owner give up of the idea and you will lost an very interesting stud.

I think you should put as rule for all dogs living in UK for breeding the need of Elbows and Hips displasy results, hips not higher than C, elbows not higher than 0-0 as elbows displasy is quite rare in the breed yet but extremely dangerous in an breed with such small genetic pool as CzW, as there are an small ammount of dogs with some degree of elbows displasy will be no problem to the breed itself make such rigorous selection.

Microchip is something easy and practical which I find crucial, the tatoo often used usualy get erased with time and then impossible to read.
Also is easier to erase an tatoo than took out microchip, I think microchip is safer for the dog and owner, identification is never too much.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

You have to take care with the rules for not turn too hard for the breeders chose different males, if you putas rule, for exemple, that all dogs used for breeding must have Elbows Displasy results or that they must be all N/N will be really hard for breeders to bring new blood and even for go to mate with different studs at other countries - something which will be REALLY needed, principally at the start of the breeding there -

Not only that, suppose you find an old dog from an very interesting line in your country, its an pure imported animal which the owner accepted to make the X rays, if there is as "rule" that the dog should have characer test and several dogshows it can make this owner give up of the idea and you will lost an very interesting stud.

I think you should put as rule for all dogs living in UK for breeding the need of Elbows and Hips displasy results, hips not higher than C, elbows not higher than 0-0 as elbows displasy is quite rare in the breed yet but extremely dangerous in an breed with such small genetic pool as CzW, as there are an small ammount of dogs with some degree of elbows displasy will be no problem to the breed itself make such rigorous selection.

Microchip is something easy and practical which I find crucial, the tatoo often used usualy get erased with time and then impossible to read.
Also is easier to erase an tatoo than took out microchip, I think microchip is safer for the dog and owner, identification is never too much.

Thankyou very much for your imput

I agree with your points!
,when and if the breed is accepted 'showing' would partly take place as a character test imo as no dog with a bad one would be able to be shown and certainly shouldn't be placed

Also I prefer microchip,....getting ahead of myself here put all litters dm tested too as well as dna

[Nebulosa]

DNA profiles are something which will be really important to the breed itself soon, but mainly to UK, where we have several people breeding mixes and people finding it normal. Also it's not hard neither expensive to do.

I agree with the DM test, but you shouldn't take it too serious when we talk about selection as even the veterinary which did the tests recommend people to treat it as one common standard fault.
I really worry about some people reaction to the DM test results, it's great to try to select only free dogs, but it really shouldn't be put in first place. Also the gene SOD1, which is tested at DM test is easy to get rid of at the breeding, different of hips and principally of elbows displasy, for exemple.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Tazer

Going back to a point made on the code of ethics, the following are just a few things that came to mind, with regards to breeders. More will probably follo.

That dogs/bitches to be used for breeding have some kind of assessment of their character. Wether that be a specific temperament test created by the club or, that they have to prove thmselves in areas such as obedience, working trials etc.

That breeders have their dog/bitches as a minimum hip scored and dm tested.

That all puppies are dna profiled. I'm also wondering if puppies should have some kind of id e.g microchip before they go to their new homes.

That bitches are a minimum of 2 years old before their first litter. I'm tempted to say the same for studs to...thoughts anyone?

That no bitch will be used for breeding after their 7th birthday.

That no breeder will use their dog/bitch to create mixes.

Then of course there's the obvious stuff like providing food, water, shelter, exercise, vet care and taking back any of the dogs/pups they've bred at anytime, for any reason, if the owner can't/will no longer keep them.

Has that yahoo/fb group been created yet?

Taz

Firstly, thankyou to Nebulosa for recreating an open discussion forum

Taz,

Great ground work...

On the point of microchipping, this will be essential for all dogs before any DM, DNA testing etc as otherwise, the results will be meaningless. I know that Laboklin have a lab in the UK - maybe it would be worth approaching them to see if you can negotiate some kind of club discount - after all, once you good people get this show on the road, you will be putting a LOT of work their way I know that I, for one, will be having all future pups both DM screened and DNA profiled prior to them leaving us (one blood sample covers all...), so don't know if you would like to consider this as a possibility too?

Great that you are suggesting minimum and maximum ages for breeding bitches and like the inclusion of the character test, but like Tupacs2legs says - showing is a type of character test in itself. And the BAN on mixing is essential if you hope the KC to take you all seriously (and will open up so many more bloodlines from Europe for you all).

Well done!! I know you and Pixie and Tupacs2legs (and all the others - sorry not to mention you all, but you - and we - know who you are ) have only the breed's interests at heart and will succeed in getting things moving at last.

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by Tazer

Going back to a point made on the code of ethics, the following are just a few things that came to mind, with regards to breeders. More will probably follo.

That dogs/bitches to be used for breeding have some kind of assessment of their character. Wether that be a specific temperament test created by the club or, that they have to prove thmselves in areas such as obedience, working trials etc.

I agree - but it would have to something readily available and fairly simple so as not to put people off

That breeders have their dog/bitches as a minimum hip scored and dm tested.

That all puppies are dna profiled. I'm also wondering if puppies should have some kind of id e.g microchip before they go to their new homes.

That bitches are a minimum of 2 years old before their first litter. I'm tempted to say the same for studs to...thoughts anyone?

Again agreed - for the Studs also - particularly important in a late maturing breed.

That no bitch will be used for breeding after their 7th birthday.

That no breeder will use their dog/bitch to create mixes.

Then of course there's the obvious stuff like providing food, water, shelter, exercise, vet care and taking back any of the dogs/pups they've bred at anytime, for any reason, if the owner can't/will no longer keep them.

Has that yahoo/fb group been created yet?

Taz

............

[Shadowlands]

Just a wee thought...

If you are having to start all this over with the KC, how about going the same way as the US and calling the breed Czechoslovakian Vlcak to distance yourselves from the 'wolf', 'wolfdog' and 'wolf look-alikes' connotations?

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Just a wee thought...

If you are having to start all this over with the KC, how about going the same way as the US and calling the breed Czechoslovakian Vlcak to distance yourselves from the 'wolf', 'wolfdog' and 'wolf look-alikes' connotations?

defo defo defo in my opinion...only my close friends hear Tupac described as a wolfdog...to everyone else he is a vlcak!


oh,and thankyou for your kind words (u know i will be bending your ear! lol)

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

You have to take care with the rules for not turn too hard for the breeders chose different males, if you putas rule, for exemple, that all dogs used for breeding must have Elbows Displasy results or that they must be all N/N will be really hard for breeders to bring new blood and even for go to mate with different studs at other countries - something which will be REALLY needed, principally at the start of the breeding there -

Not only that, suppose you find an old dog from an very interesting line in your country, its an pure imported animal which the owner accepted to make the X rays, if there is as "rule" that the dog should have characer test and several dogshows it might make this owner give up of the idea and you will lost an very interesting stud.

I think you should put as rule for all dogs living in UK for breeding the need of Elbows and Hips displasy results, hips not higher than C, elbows not higher than 0-0 as elbows displasy is quite rare in the breed yet but extremely dangerous in an breed with such small genetic pool as CzW, as there are an small ammount of dogs with some degree of elbows displasy will be no problem to the breed itself make such rigorous selection.

Microchip is something easy and practical which I find crucial, the tatoo often used usualy get erased with time and then impossible to read.
Also is easier to erase an tatoo than took out microchip, I think microchip is safer for the dog and owner, identification is never too much.

Those are fair points.

I was thinking that the character test could be for dogs in the uk, if someon wants to use a dog outside the uk, then its at their discretion.

I agree with regards to elbow testing and dm, I think using carriers providing 2 aren't mated with each other is fine, esp as the breed has a small gene pool.


Taz

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

Thankyou very much for your imput

I agree with your points!
,when and if the breed is accepted 'showing' would partly take place as a character test imo as no dog with a bad one would be able to be shown and certainly shouldn't be placed

Also I prefer microchip,....getting ahead of myself here put all litters dm tested too as well as dna

Agreed.


Taz

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Just a wee thought...

If you are having to start all this over with the KC, how about going the same way as the US and calling the breed Czechoslovakian Vlcak to distance yourselves from the 'wolf', 'wolfdog' and 'wolf look-alikes' connotations?

Yes, I was thinking about same thing. This subject has been brought up somewhere else in this forum. Someone said that breed name must be the same as english breed name given when breed was registered with FCI. But I am not sure, I will have look inyo registration forms once I'll get back to home. You want "czechoslovakian Vlcak " or "ceskoslovensky Vlcak"?

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by hedeon

Yes, I was thinking about same thing. This subject has been brought up somewhere else in this forum. Someone said that breed name must be the same as english breed name given when breed was registered with FCI. But I am not sure, I will have look inyo registration forms once I'll get back to home. You want "czechoslovakian Vlcak " or "czechoslowenski Vlcak"?

I've just has a wee look at some of the paperwork we have for Shadow and it seems the FCI name is Ceskoslovensky Vlcak. That is how it is listed on her pedigree, the pups' pedigrees and her, newly arrived - 10 mins ago - CIE Title Certificate (sorry to boast, but I'm a proud mummy at the moment )

It would seem it is us native English speakers who must have changed the name to something easier for us at some point in the past

[hedeon]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

I've just has a wee look at some of the paperwork we have for Shadow and it seems the FCI name is Ceskoslovensky Vlcak. That is how it is listed on her pedigree, the pups' pedigrees and her, newly arrived - 10 mins ago - CIE Title Certificate (sorry to boast, but I'm a proud mummy at the moment )

It would seem it is us native English speakers who must have changed the name to something easier for us at some point in the past

Prefer vlcak a lot more than wolfdog. I found out it is quite common whenever I say "wolfdog" people get a bit scared "wolfdog" appeals also more to people who would like to have wolfdog not for right reasons.

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by hedeon

Prefer vlcak a lot more than wolfdog. I found out it is quite common whenever I say "wolfdog" people get a bit scared "wolfdog" appeals also more to people who would like to have wolfdog not for right reasons.

couldn't agree more...

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Firstly, thankyou to Nebulosa for recreating an open discussion forum

Taz,

Great ground work...

On the point of microchipping, this will be essential for all dogs before any DM, DNA testing etc as otherwise, the results will be meaningless. I know that Laboklin have a lab in the UK - maybe it would be worth approaching them to see if you can negotiate some kind of club discount - after all, once you good people get this show on the road, you will be putting a LOT of work their way I know that I, for one, will be having all future pups both DM screened and DNA profiled prior to them leaving us (one blood sample covers all...), so don't know if you would like to consider this as a possibility too?

Great that you are suggesting minimum and maximum ages for breeding bitches and like the inclusion of the character test, but like Tupacs2legs says - showing is a type of character test in itself. And the BAN on mixing is essential if you hope the KC to take you all seriously (and will open up so many more bloodlines from Europe for you all).

Well done!! I know you and Pixie and Tupacs2legs (and all the others - sorry not to mention you all, but you - and we - know who you are ) have only the breed's interests at heart and will succeed in getting things moving at last.

Thank you for the words of support.

Agree showing is a good test of character and approaching Laboklin is definitely something to consider, great suggestion.

Normally I'd say that no crossbreeding should go without saying however, given the current situation, I think it needs to be highlighted so that no one is in any doubt as to the clubs position on it.

Taz