Norwegian ban on SW and CzW - Page 11

Mikael · 20-12-2009, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And I congratulate you on doing the hard work of finding all the Saarloos kennels in Europe it really takes some time since they are not easy to find.

For me it was easy

as I had the list of all saarloos breeders in Europe

But if I´m missing someone I did it a FW e-mail

Maybe your breeder will not send you one now

I hope so...

Kisses and hugs / Mikael

Per Olav · 20-12-2009, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And other peoples prejustice if there exist wont have any influence on my dog.....since both me and the dog is protected by law actually.

OMG. You still don't understand. Keeping away from accidents did not prevent the csv from beeing banned in Norway, merely the fact that it was a csv - a dog breed started as a sientfic experiment by breeding wolves and dogs by the mid 1950ies made it a victim. What prevented the sw from beeing banned is the fact that its breeding started some twenty years earlier and thus a little less dangerous according to our authoryties. But still the sw is ballancing on the edge.

If you love your breed you must think in long terms, not egosentric like whatever might happend in the near future - my dog is safe and protected by law. That's one more of what horrifies me by your way of thinking.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 20-12-2009, 19:28

To Mikael: The breeder is not going to send me one, I am going to visit the breeder and get the pup personally and everything is already booked and reserved. So I dont think the breeder will care about some anonymous person whining that I get a dog that I have every right to have and break the deal.

And the breeder do perfectly understand that the dog will have a good life at my place since I have exchanged many mails with the breeder also about where I live and how the dog will live etc. So I dont think the breeder will care about my political views, especially since people in DDR dont love the "left side" too much since they too have experienced the "dark side" of socialism.

To Per Olav: You tell me that I shall think in long terms, thats what I do I know that no matter how the law will change my dog will still be legal just as your dog is since it got to Norway before CSV got banned. And by the way doesnt the same apply to you? You have bought a CSV knowing that the dog can get banned.....and now you tell me to not buy a SW since SWs can get banned.....

The SW is becoming an older and older race with each year that pass so the reason for banning them is smaller and smaller all the time, if the age of the race is why it balances on the edge. And the best proof that the race is not threatended by a ban is that a breeder started to breed SWs in Norway, do you think she would do it if the dogs were to get banned?

And I dont understand why you think that I am not suitable to own a SW....I am going to use much more time on training it than most average owners do. And also be extra carfull. So tell me why should I be a greater danger to the race than those 11 (maybe more are on the list now) other anonymous future owners of Saarloos in Norway. Plus all those who will get their dogs later on since the breeder will continue to breed Saarlooses and those who import them like me.....

Per Olav · 20-12-2009, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

To Per Olav: You tell me that I shall think in long terms, thats what I do I know that no matter how the law will change my dog will still be legal just as your dog is since it got to Norway before CSV got banned. And by the way doesnt the same apply to you? You have bought a CSV knowing that the dog can get banned.....and now you tell me to not buy a SW since SWs can get banned.....

I guess it's time to end this conversation. My dog was imported long time before a little boy was killed by a number of gsd/polar dog mutts and no one at that time even thought of breed spesific legislation and banning a breed just a few people knew the existence of.

Have a merry Christmas.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 20-12-2009, 19:47

I thought that banning of breeds in Norway started already in 1991.....but I shall not bother you more. I just doesnt understand why you think that I am less suitable to own a SW than all those other people who are going to own one in Norway...

Have a nice Christmas you too, and a Happy New Year! And I really hope you succeed in getting CSV legal in Norway and I think that showing the government how nice SWs are living in Norway will help your cause.

Per Olav · 20-12-2009, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

I thought that banning of breeds in Norway started already in 1991.....but I shall not bother you more. I just doesnt understand why you think that I am less suitable to own a SW than all those other people who are going to own one in Norway...

By 2001 there was no intentions of adding more breeds to the list of banned "fighting dogs", except for the Police who wanted a ban on the American Staffordshire Terrier cause its close relations to the previous banned Pitbull. No one ever dreamed of a proposal of banning the wolfdog breeds - which later was raised by members of what in popular terms is called the Norwegian association of wolf haters and its supporters which at that time strongly lobbyed our Ministry of Justice.
--
po

Merry Xmas

Mikael · 21-12-2009, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

To Mikael: The breeder is not going to send me one, I am going to visit the breeder and get the pup personally and everything is already booked and reserved. So I dont think the breeder will care about some anonymous person whining that I get a dog that I have every right to have and break the deal.

Well I´m not going to tell Alexandra at kennel Tachunga nothing, I´m just going to give her the link to this topic, the rest is up to her

I might just help her whit translation if she wont´s to

And I know that you love me to

Very best regards / Mikael

XaedasKSP · 21-12-2009, 01:09

Yes ofc. just show the breeder the whole topic its no problem for me if I were in doubt that the breeder understands it that I will properly take care of the dog and use very much time on it, then do you think I would write about it here or link to the kennel on the polish forum (so you can go there watch the pictures and copy paste the internet adress)? Ahh and dont worry that you will have to "translate" the breeder speaks very well english (I didnt have to write german on the mail) so your great chance of "translating" it to your favour is sadly lost.

What you just dont understand is that people from other parts of the world outside Scandinavia wont blame me for hating socialism, since both in Poland or in DDR they know very well the "dark sides" of it. The best proof is this forum, after I wrote that I shall buy an SW that is legal in Norway people on the polish forum helped me to find a breeder and congratulated upon finding a pup that I can buy.

While here was a totally different approach that met me, you know very well that I will take good care of the SW and that its 100 % legal in Norway. Still you get mad because I found a legal solution of having a wolfdog in Norway. People in Poland know this too but the difference is that they dont care if I hate socialists cause many of them probably do it too... but since on this forum its not allowed to write about politics then I shall stop there.....

Per Olav · 21-12-2009, 10:04

Please stop this ignorant young man from spreading his political nonsense and insulting other peoples political point of view on this forum.
--
po

Rona · 21-12-2009, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

Please stop this ignorant young man from spreading his political nonsense and insulting other peoples political point of view on this forum.

I already pity his dog (if he mangages to get one

). What, if the poor animal will not be able to express support for his owners' political views, or, even worse, will not share them?!

solowolf · 21-12-2009, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

For your information.

The Norwegian Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Ministry of Enviroment are
working on proposal of banning the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (CSV)and the
Saarlos Wolfhound (SW) breeds in Norway.

The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) is immiment to launch a news
feature in disfavour of the two breeds on the TV.

The Broadcasting Corporations reporter on the subject, has illegally copied
pics from my CSV homesite. If I don't participate in the programme to defend
the breeds, the reporter will use the pics stolen from my homesite. I will by
no means participate in this event.

Regards

Per Olav

Per sorry for intrusion on your post as i am not currently up to date with what is going on just from what i have read here, it is bad for such big corporations to do this, the tv has massive effect on the media and most people are just gulible enough to believe all they hear on the t.v. right or wrong, it is infringment of your privicy for them to remove your photos and then use them as to blackmail you, illegal,,,,,but you at present do have one thing in your favor, you know what they intend to do,,,, now is the time to capitalize on it,, you must jump in and get news out before they can, how many people on this web site can send you pics of CSV with there children, with other animals, all can be put on a web site, sureley there is magazine will let you do article on the CSV, a news paper? all the people on this site and all friends must sign petition now? get it started today,, we had ban in uk but it already existed before i got my CWS to uk, but this is different as it will lead to new ban which may never come right again for CVS in Norway, Per you must stand up and defend your dogs, even if it is against your way of life or all you stand for, you may only get one go at this, agree to do interview but conditions are you are allowed to bring a wolfdog with you, and make sure a young child walks it into the studio,,,,,,,,i had lot of people sign pettition many years ago on wolfdog.org and it helped a lot,,, it is very hard for you but go for it, the CSV and Per in Noway need your help all wolfdog owner get of your asses and do something mail this guy , there are enough of you to help, we get plenty of posts so you all have the time, Per from the czech owners in uk what can we do to help CONTACT US,,,,as for the Saarloos people you shoul be totally ashamed of yourselfs and it will not be forgotten,

AND DONT FORGET IF THE BAN GOES AHEAD IT IS AN EXCUSE FOR MAYBE THE GOVERNMENT OF YOUR COUNTRY TO BAN THEM WHERE YOU LIVE NEXT...............

XaedasKSP · 21-12-2009, 22:18

Why what do you wish me banned for now Per Olav? Answering your posts in a polite manner where I answered politically only where you first touched the politics?

Or maybe for answering Mikael in the most polite manner possible after he did all he could to try to provoke me to say something that would be not polite on a debate forum. I havent said a single abusive word. And where I answered politically it was because it was asked for. You cant ask about politics and then shout "ban him cause he answers with politics".....if I shall get banned then the other users asking me things that are politically connected should to get banned for politics on the forum.

But I totally dont understand why politics are forbidden in a topic about the law, but I dont argue with that I just wish that there shall be some justice, if someone provokes me and asks about political things then I must be allowed to answer with politics or else the person who writes about politics in a post adressed to me should too be banned.

But I hope that the moderator shall read all the posts including those that Mikael wrote to me before I answered him, and that the moderator will understand that I have just answered politely to his posts....and that there is no reason to ban me.

As for the case of the dog....if people say like Rona did in this topic that I am not suitable to have a SW because of my politic beliefs, then I dont know how I can answer to such posts without touching the politics.

My politic beliefs are not a reason to say that I will not be a good enough owner of a SW, and no objective person will say that someone will not be a good owner of a dog because of his political beliefs. The best proof of this is that people on the polish forum actually were helpfull with giving me info about how to find SW breeders and actually I also got congratulated upon the fact of finding a SW pup that I can buy.

Saarlooses are 100 % legal in Norway, there is even a norwegian breeder of them and there are many people in Norway waiting to get a pup from the litters planned in Norway and others who rather import their pup like me and this is also 100 % legal. So I dont understand what is the problem of the people that criticise me......

Per Olav · 21-12-2009, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

So I dont understand what is the problem of the people that criticise me......

If you don't understand why, there's in my opinnion no way of explaining it in a way that is understandble to you.

As a novice to this forum it certainly is better ways than yours when addressing people who is unknown to you. As a possible owner of a wolfdog this forum is a absolute must for anyone interrested in discussing different topics related to wolfdogs and their behaviour. Bullying people is not the way of doing this.

Btw I did not want you banned, just making an end of posting your unwanted political views on this forum.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 21-12-2009, 23:14

Well I have already said that I have ended posting political views here, but when people are posting posts here adressed to me with political content then as I have said I dont know how to respond to them without touching the politics. So I hope no one bans me for answering people....

If someone tell me that they think the reason of my unsuitableness for having a SW is my political views like Rona did:

Quote:
"I already pity his dog (if he mangages to get one

). What, if the poor animal will not be able to express support for his owners' political views, or, even worse, will not share them?!

"

Then how do you think this can be answered without talking about politics?

Well I dont think that I have "bullyed" anyone (If having a different point of view is "bullying" then maybe I have but I didnt know it was "bullying") but if anyone feel "bullyed" then I am very sorry for that.

I do always try to respond in a polite manner, even when people try to provoke me like Mikael did (if you read his posts then you will probably see that I havent been more unpolite to him than he have been to me, maybe even less). And the reason I am on this forum is exactly to get more information about the wolfdogs, since there is no separate SW forum so a wolfdogforum should be most suitable forum then for owners of Saarlooses.

As for the best of the breed well then I think its positive that Saarlooses are more and more common in Norway and that even someone decided to breed them in Norway. If people and the government see that Saarlooses are nice and friendly dogs then I think it can only be positive for the CSVs and for the case of lifting the ban....and as I said if you need any petition signed or some other help in political pressure on the government to lift the ban I will gladly help......

Angelika · 22-12-2009, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

Saarlooses are 100 % legal in Norway

??????????

According to the official site of Norway it´s forbidden to own, breed and import dangerous dogs. Dogs, who arose from a crossing between dog and wolf, are considered as dangerous - without regard to the particular part of wolf.

Thereafter Saarloos wolfhonds are not really safe in Norway.

Angelika · 22-12-2009, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

I´m just going to give her the link to this topic, the rest is up to her

Thank you, Mikael

Angelika · 22-12-2009, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona

I already pity his dog (if he mangages to get one

). What, if the poor animal will not be able to express support for his owners' political views, or, even worse, will not share them?!

.... or does not like vodka as much as his owner does???!!

Rona · 22-12-2009, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelika

.... or does not like vodka as much as his owner does???!!

Be careful Angelika, this might also be interpreted as writing about politics

Per Olav · 22-12-2009, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelika

??????????

According to the official site of Norway it´s forbidden to own, breed and import dangerous dogs. Dogs, who arose from a crossing between dog and wolf, are considered as dangerous - without regard to the particular part of wolf.

Thereafter Saarloos wolfhonds are not really safe in Norway.

SW is legal but surely not safe. That's why I'm worried. New inexperienced owners not knowing what they are facing may be extremely harmful in the efforts of changing the law. A new breeder selling pups to fanciers of the sw wolfy look and behavior may be more harmful than anything else. I really do hope the breeder is aware of that. For time beeing my mood is down thinking of the uncertain future of the sw i Norway.

Rona · 22-12-2009, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

For time beeing my mood is down thinking of the uncertain future of the sw i Norway.

Per Olav, here is a litttle Christmas gift to cheer you up, with a special dedication for Norwegian Authorities.

New (and non-political

) version of the Little Red Riding Hood image

21-12-2009, 10:04	#209
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Dear webmaster/moderators Please stop this ignorant young man from spreading his political nonsense and insulting other peoples political point of view on this forum. -- po __________________ Per Olav Last edited by Per Olav; 21-12-2009 at 10:11.

21-12-2009, 23:14	#214
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Well I have already said that I have ended posting political views here, but when people are posting posts here adressed to me with political content then as I have said I dont know how to respond to them without touching the politics. So I hope no one bans me for answering people.... If someone tell me that they think the reason of my unsuitableness for having a SW is my political views like Rona did: Quote: "I already pity his dog (if he mangages to get one). What, if the poor animal will not be able to express support for his owners' political views, or, even worse, will not share them?! " Then how do you think this can be answered without talking about politics? Well I dont think that I have "bullyed" anyone (If having a different point of view is "bullying" then maybe I have but I didnt know it was "bullying") but if anyone feel "bullyed" then I am very sorry for that. I do always try to respond in a polite manner, even when people try to provoke me like Mikael did (if you read his posts then you will probably see that I havent been more unpolite to him than he have been to me, maybe even less). And the reason I am on this forum is exactly to get more information about the wolfdogs, since there is no separate SW forum so a wolfdogforum should be most suitable forum then for owners of Saarlooses. As for the best of the breed well then I think its positive that Saarlooses are more and more common in Norway and that even someone decided to breed them in Norway. If people and the government see that Saarlooses are nice and friendly dogs then I think it can only be positive for the CSVs and for the case of lifting the ban....and as I said if you need any petition signed or some other help in political pressure on the government to lift the ban I will gladly help......

20-12-2009, 19:28	#203
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	To Mikael: The breeder is not going to send me one, I am going to visit the breeder and get the pup personally and everything is already booked and reserved. So I dont think the breeder will care about some anonymous person whining that I get a dog that I have every right to have and break the deal. And the breeder do perfectly understand that the dog will have a good life at my place since I have exchanged many mails with the breeder also about where I live and how the dog will live etc. So I dont think the breeder will care about my political views, especially since people in DDR dont love the "left side" too much since they too have experienced the "dark side" of socialism. To Per Olav: You tell me that I shall think in long terms, thats what I do I know that no matter how the law will change my dog will still be legal just as your dog is since it got to Norway before CSV got banned. And by the way doesnt the same apply to you? You have bought a CSV knowing that the dog can get banned.....and now you tell me to not buy a SW since SWs can get banned..... The SW is becoming an older and older race with each year that pass so the reason for banning them is smaller and smaller all the time, if the age of the race is why it balances on the edge. And the best proof that the race is not threatended by a ban is that a breeder started to breed SWs in Norway, do you think she would do it if the dogs were to get banned? And I dont understand why you think that I am not suitable to own a SW....I am going to use much more time on training it than most average owners do. And also be extra carfull. So tell me why should I be a greater danger to the race than those 11 (maybe more are on the list now) other anonymous future owners of Saarloos in Norway. Plus all those who will get their dogs later on since the breeder will continue to breed Saarlooses and those who import them like me.....

20-12-2009, 19:47	#205
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	I thought that banning of breeds in Norway started already in 1991.....but I shall not bother you more. I just doesnt understand why you think that I am less suitable to own a SW than all those other people who are going to own one in Norway... Have a nice Christmas you too, and a Happy New Year! And I really hope you succeed in getting CSV legal in Norway and I think that showing the government how nice SWs are living in Norway will help your cause.

21-12-2009, 01:09	#208
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Yes ofc. just show the breeder the whole topic its no problem for me if I were in doubt that the breeder understands it that I will properly take care of the dog and use very much time on it, then do you think I would write about it here or link to the kennel on the polish forum (so you can go there watch the pictures and copy paste the internet adress)? Ahh and dont worry that you will have to "translate" the breeder speaks very well english (I didnt have to write german on the mail) so your great chance of "translating" it to your favour is sadly lost. What you just dont understand is that people from other parts of the world outside Scandinavia wont blame me for hating socialism, since both in Poland or in DDR they know very well the "dark sides" of it. The best proof is this forum, after I wrote that I shall buy an SW that is legal in Norway people on the polish forum helped me to find a breeder and congratulated upon finding a pup that I can buy. While here was a totally different approach that met me, you know very well that I will take good care of the SW and that its 100 % legal in Norway. Still you get mad because I found a legal solution of having a wolfdog in Norway. People in Poland know this too but the difference is that they dont care if I hate socialists cause many of them probably do it too... but since on this forum its not allowed to write about politics then I shall stop there.....

21-12-2009, 22:18	#212
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Why what do you wish me banned for now Per Olav? Answering your posts in a polite manner where I answered politically only where you first touched the politics? Or maybe for answering Mikael in the most polite manner possible after he did all he could to try to provoke me to say something that would be not polite on a debate forum. I havent said a single abusive word. And where I answered politically it was because it was asked for. You cant ask about politics and then shout "ban him cause he answers with politics".....if I shall get banned then the other users asking me things that are politically connected should to get banned for politics on the forum. But I totally dont understand why politics are forbidden in a topic about the law, but I dont argue with that I just wish that there shall be some justice, if someone provokes me and asks about political things then I must be allowed to answer with politics or else the person who writes about politics in a post adressed to me should too be banned. But I hope that the moderator shall read all the posts including those that Mikael wrote to me before I answered him, and that the moderator will understand that I have just answered politely to his posts....and that there is no reason to ban me. As for the case of the dog....if people say like Rona did in this topic that I am not suitable to have a SW because of my politic beliefs, then I dont know how I can answer to such posts without touching the politics. My politic beliefs are not a reason to say that I will not be a good enough owner of a SW, and no objective person will say that someone will not be a good owner of a dog because of his political beliefs. The best proof of this is that people on the polish forum actually were helpfull with giving me info about how to find SW breeders and actually I also got congratulated upon the fact of finding a SW pup that I can buy. Saarlooses are 100 % legal in Norway, there is even a norwegian breeder of them and there are many people in Norway waiting to get a pup from the litters planned in Norway and others who rather import their pup like me and this is also 100 % legal. So I dont understand what is the problem of the people that criticise me......