Breeding rules and regulations in various countries

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by solowolf

kennel ARIMMINUN.
bitch AMGRA VLEI NADIJE b.o.birth 20/12/1998
first litter born 23/12/1999 BITCH WAS MATED AT 10 MTHS OLD....
THIS BITCH WENT ON TO PRODUCE 70 PUPS,
THIS BITCH HAD ITS LAST LITTER WHEN IT WAS 10.5 YRS OLD
THIS BITCH HAD 10 LITTERS IN ITS BREEDING LIFETIME.
SO BITCH WAS BRED AT 10 MTHS OLD WAS IT HIP SCORED?? TO YOUNG,,


can you find out if this had hd test done before she was mated at 10 mths old,.

Normal HD x-ray are NO good at that age, only Penn-hip, whit Penn-hip you can test for HD already at 4 month, but I do not think they did any Penn-hip on that dog ???

Mikael i must thank you all for starting this subject it has opened my eyes to what is going on and the abuse of cws bitchs by some breeders in Europe, it is appauling and inhumain to do this to a bitch, passo del lupo and now this kennel the kennel is called ARIMMINUN.

You are welkome, and yes I agree using a male at 10 month is just stupid, but use a female is animal cruelty... Sadly I think there is more kennels that might have done the same, as apperantly FCI has no breeding rules that goes for all FCI country´s ???

sad but not uncommon in europe either in uk we are governed as to a code of ethics that a bitch can only have one litter per year, and may only be bred from 1yr old till 7 yrs old so a maximum of 6 litters in life time of bitch.

In Sweden a registred SKK/FCI kennel has this rules to follow...

.................................................. ....................................

(Tranlated by google)

3:0 Breeders rules, SKK (Swedish Kennel Club)

Breeder is in his breeding work observe good breeding policy and breed in good faith and not use bitch at too low or too high age, at the earliest at the age recommended by their special club, but never earlier than the second heat. Breeder shall not make an effort in the breeding bitch with too many, too frequent or too large litters, which means:

3:1 that a bitch may not give birth to more than 5 litters

3:2 that bitch over the age of 7 years must always be at least 10 months' rest between the litters. *3:4.

3:3 that bitch that within 10 months had two litters must rest at least 13 months prior to the next litter.

3:4 that the bitch from the age of 7 years, veterinary certificate, which shows that the bitch is in such condition that no barrier to pregnancy exists, could be produced. The certificate must be issued before mating.

.................................................. ..................................

CsV and Saarloos can not neiter be used in breeding before MH-deskription. and you need to make DNA test to prove the parents of the puppies to get the pedigree. ( male need no MH or DNA test if he do not live in Sweden.

I WONDER WHICH RULES ALL COUNTRY´S HAVE ???

And now I´m especially interested in the rules in Italy !!! ???

Very best regards / Mikael

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

HD x-ray not before the age of 15 month, evaluation by an expert (1-2 experts / breed)
negativ eye test on genetic eye diseases, evaluation by an expert
one exhibition with very good or better
one check for breeding permission by a German international judge on special occasions, with messurement of heigh and judgement about charakter (not strict enough)
That means the dog is around 2 years when it goes into breeding because you have to do everything else before you can go to the last check.

Only one litter a year for the bitch, after more than 8 puppies you have to have one year between the last birth and the next mating. As discussed here before you can get a special permission for the latter if you have good reasons and the bitch is health checked and there are no reasons at all against mating.
Last litter in the 8th year of the bitch, special permission possible.

Your kennel, your knowledge and your dogs get checked by a VDH breeding advisor before you get breeding allowance for your kennel. The puppies get checked with 7 weeks and 8 weeks, they have to have their first vaccination, worm treatments and microchip before the last check, before that date you are not allowed to give away any puppy. The breeding advisor checks for teeth abnormities, tail or spine abnormities, kryptorchism, any abnormities are written in every pedigree of this litter as "at the time of the last check".

Ina

[massimo]

Let me see...please somebody correct me if I am wrong but...
You have a male and a female, both with ROI (pedigree).
They mate...they have puppies...
Within 25 days from birth of puppies you must declare the litter, indicating parents, pedigree number of parents and Chip number.
Within 90 days you declare name, chip number, new owner if different from Breeder and certification of local animal registration (anagrafe canina) for each puppy.
Local animal registration center checks very superficially if dog is healthy, checks cip number and nothing more.
So... You can have sick dogs, displasic dogs, brothers and sisters, whatever you want can make puppies, as long as you duly pay ENCI (nactional kennel club) they applications

I'm often jealous of breeding/registration restrictions in other countries. It seems like here in the US, we have really backwards thinking in comparison! I tend to view the AKC at this point a necessary evil. While it's the best national registry we have, and they offer wonderful activities/sports for dogs, as well as neutered "mutt" registries so pets can participate, as long as you have on paper dogs that were previously registered with the AKC (I think it only has to be 3 generations, as well) you can register a litter. There's absolutely no DNA testing (last I checked, anyway, this could have changed) so false reports happen often, and I tend to blame the AKC for a lot of the puppy mills in this country because they have absolutely no restrictions to promote good breeding practice. From what I've heard, although good breeders are pushing for these restrictions, the AKC has yet to give in because a large portion of their income comes from puppy mills and back-yard breeders who do nothing but churn out unhealthy puppies for profit. It's a very broken system, because the AKC is necessary to keep purebred dogs registered in the US, so bankrupting them isn't going to help anything!

haha I guess long story short, there isn't much in regards to NATIONAL regulations on breeding. However, specific breed clubs generally all have a list of ethical breeding practices that members must abide to. It's just a shame that so many people don't care.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by massimo

Let me see...please somebody correct me if I am wrong but...
You have a male and a female, both with ROI (pedigree).
They mate...they have puppies...
Within 25 days from birth of puppies you must declare the litter, indicating parents, pedigree number of parents and Chip number.
Within 90 days you declare name, chip number, new owner if different from Breeder and certification of local animal registration (anagrafe canina) for each puppy.
Local animal registration center checks very superficially if dog is healthy, checks cip number and nothing more.
So... You can have sick dogs, displasic dogs, brothers and sisters, whatever you want can make puppies, as long as you duly pay ENCI (nactional kennel club) they applications

exactly, as long as you pay the registration fees, i took up subject with uk kennel club they have code of ethics good breeders should follow, joke is if a dog or bitch has very bad hipm result or has bad eye result, the pups from such animals can be registered by the kennel club, so your dog has hip and eye test done is bad on both,the kennel club then puts this information on dogs pedigree, instead of removing the pedigree and saying dog not suitable for breeding, no even when they have this information that they put on pedigrees they still register the pups from affected dogs, and they tell me its not all about MONEY....

[Mikael]

Breeding age…

"At the earliest at the age recommended by their special club.
But newer before second heat.

And than max 5 litters / female / lifetime.

I think this will stop the worst puppy milling and abuse of the females.

__________________________________________________ __________

I did only Wright about things that would effect age of first litter for a female,but we have a hole book of other rules to follow...

And one of them is…

That you as a breeder must follow the Swedish Kennel Clubs health program.
And if one read them, a part of it say, that it is the breed clubs responsibility to do research and apply for demands for breeding for there breed, like eye tests, HD, ED and more…

But this far we do not have official club and can not demand anything, we can only recommend, as are club is unofficial www.ssck.se

And off course we must follow the ground roles of breeding always.

But I think it is good that the demands can be set up by the special club if needed, like in are case HD and ED test.

And if the club want they can demand 24 month before breeding a female.

Best regards / Mikael

[Nebulosa]

Oh Massimo, you should be happy, at least the breeder may declare the litter and someone check if the pup realy exist or not.

According the CBKC rules you only need both studs with FCI pedigree for be able to register the pupies, you send the litter map and in 30 days back the pedigree, important is only pay for it.
So, you can breed the female many times as you wich, with no results at all and if you have pedigree its ok, even if the female is not the same dog pointed in the pedigree, you can even register 10 pups in a litter wich has been born 5... sometimes you can even meet long time death females with few month pups... ... ...
You can easly find CBKC pedigrees being sold in internet for who wich buy.
As I often listen, everything we can be proud of our vets, we can be ashamed of our kennel Club.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Oh Massimo, you should be happy, at least the breeder may declare the litter and someone check if the pup realy exist or not.

According the CBKC rules you only need both studs with FCI pedigree for be able to register the pupies, you send the litter map and in 30 days back the pedigree, important is only pay for it.
So, you can breed the female many times as you wich, with no results at all and if you have pedigree its ok, even if the female is not the same dog pointed in the pedigree, you can even register 10 pups in a litter wich has been born 5... sometimes you can even meet long time death females with few month pups... ... ...
You can easly find CBKC pedigrees being sold in internet for who wich buy.
As I often listen, everything we can be proud of our vets, we can be ashamed of our kennel Club.

Yes but how hard can it than be to buy a HD A/A result on the web to ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes but how hard can it than be to buy a HD A/A result on the web to ???

Best regards / Mikael

No, its realy not possible as the HD and ED results are only up to the vets, so CBKC dont touch it, if it happen, the vets involved would lost his right to work.
But if you analising the situation its a market with no future here, as few owners knows and cares about HD results in the moment of buy a pup, as the club dont make control of it and does not requires it for register the pups, puppy mills does not care for healty tests as well and nor even will bother thinking in make or falsified it.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

HD x-ray not before the age of 15 month, evaluation by an expert (1-2 experts / breed)
negativ eye test on genetic eye diseases, evaluation by an expert
one exhibition with very good or better
one check for breeding permission by a German international judge on special occasions, with messurement of heigh and judgement about charakter (not strict enough)
That means the dog is around 2 years when it goes into breeding because you have to do everything else before you can go to the last check.

Only one litter a year for the bitch, after more than 8 puppies you have to have one year between the last birth and the next mating. As discussed here before you can get a special permission for the latter if you have good reasons and the bitch is health checked and there are no reasons at all against mating.
Last litter in the 8th year of the bitch, special permission possible.

Your kennel, your knowledge and your dogs get checked by a VDH breeding advisor before you get breeding allowance for your kennel. The puppies get checked with 7 weeks and 8 weeks, they have to have their first vaccination, worm treatments and microchip before the last check, before that date you are not allowed to give away any puppy. The breeding advisor checks for teeth abnormities, tail or spine abnormities, kryptorchism, any abnormities are written in every pedigree of this litter as "at the time of the last check".

Ina

Oh, I forgot we have to repeat the eye test, it has to be less than one year old for every mating. And we have to announce the mating before the puppies are born.

The breed clubs can make additional rules but it is quite difficult to open one for small breeds like ours. Those have been the VDH-rules.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes but how hard can it than be to buy a HD A/A result on the web to ???

Best regards / Mikael

you dont need to buy them, i know that the same bitch that had good hips was taken to same vet 3 times in less than one year and the results where used for other bitchs,,,,,,,,,,the chip number of the bitch that was not present was given to vet and he used it wth xray of the other dog,,,,,,,,,,,, nothing is impossable if you have the money,,,,,,,

[solowolf]

Timber wollf arimminum has sired 94 pups
Cutt- dellifco sortiere has sired 135 pups
Miky passo del lupo has sired 172 pups
we have Uma passo del lupo having 4 litters in 1year and 11 mths she had 8 litters in total before they wore this bitch out,
and poor Amgra vlei nadije at Arimminum kennels bred at 10 mths old had her last litter when she was 10yrs and 6 mths old 10 litters in total before they wore this bitch out. you are not breeders but a discrage to the dog world.

these kennels have all the what we have won over the years at dog shows and we are best kennel,, we have done this and that.
your breeding is doing nothing for the CWS as a breed, and the way both these kennels abuse there bitchs is a disgrace and nothing more than animal cruelty.

[SARKA]

I want to answer because Ambra Vlci Nadeje is my CSW female and at this point I must reply:
1) We make prevention RX Displasia from one of more famous veterinarian not only in Italy but in all Europe: Doct. Aldo Vezzone.Displasia was A and definitive confirm A.
2) Ambra was one young dog but she was maturity in body and head and for my veterinarian(2°heat) Ambra could make puppies without any damage.In effect was realy because after only 3 months after puppies was born she took part in international exposition and was winnner CAC CACIB best female.She was female VS Ariska della Terra Selvaggia ( very beatiful female).
There are exceptional females,medium females and not good females about reproduction cycle.
Ambra all time make the best dogs CSW.After every pregnancy she was in perfect form.
The last puppies was make after suggest of veterinarian because during all 3 months she was ready to reproduce.She finished this period only after contact with a male.Now for my lucky all of this reproducing periods is regular and short.
There are woman that have a lot of children's (for ex: Michelle ,one woman from U.K. make 19 son's without any medicine) and there are some woman that can't have children's.This is the nature and there is no other my female like Ambra.
Before speak about Ambra,please visit us to see yourself where live.
She doesn't stay in box,lives in my house with my family and stay wery well!

[Mikael]

As I understand in Italy you can breed first after second heat...

But is there no rules about max litter and maximum age for breeding a female ???

Can you breed 11 litters and have the last litter at 13 years of age for example ???

Regards / Mikael

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by SARKA

I want to answer because Ambra Vlci Nadeje is my CSW female and at this point I must reply:
1) We make prevention RX Displasia from one of more famous veterinarian not only in Italy but in all Europe: Doct. Aldo Vezzone.Displasia was A and definitive confirm A.
2) Ambra was one young dog but she was maturity in body and head and for my veterinarian(2°heat) Ambra could make puppies without any damage.In effect was realy because after only 3 months after puppies was born she took part in international exposition and was winnner CAC CACIB best female.She was female VS Ariska della Terra Selvaggia ( very beatiful female).
There are exceptional females,medium females and not good females about reproduction cycle.
Ambra all time make the best dogs CSW.After every pregnancy she was in perfect form.
The last puppies was make after suggest of veterinarian because during all 3 months she was ready to reproduce.She finished this period only after contact with a male.Now for my lucky all of this reproducing periods is regular and short.
There are woman that have a lot of children's (for ex: Michelle ,one woman from U.K. make 19 son's without any medicine) and there are some woman that can't have children's.This is the nature and there is no other my female like Ambra.
Before speak about Ambra,please visit us to see yourself where live.
She doesn't stay in box,lives in my house with my family and stay wery well!

lady if this is some sort of excuse or explanation of why you abused a bitch and made it a puppy machine your talking to the wrong person and i dont care about your vet either he would be dis barred in uk, and what has women in uk having kids got to do with breeding dogs?/ to breed a bitch so many times is completely uncalled for and is nothing more than cruelty to the animal, no doubt all the shows she won was the cause of it all as i am sure many people wanted the pups, so really this bitch was abused for MONEY reasons what other possable excuse could there be. nature is one thing ,a domesticated dog is another. and bye the way you have many beautiful dogs. pacino

[ste]

Originally Posted by Mikael

As I understand in Italy you can breed first after second heat...

But is there no rules about max litter and maximum age for breeding a female ???

Can you breed 11 litters and have the last litter at 13 years of age for example ???

Regards / Mikael

There is an "ethical document" that the breeder must sign when they legalize their position with ENCI, in this document there are either rules and "exhortations":
- max 5 litters
- last litter at 7 years
but with your vet you can ask for more litters.
But I don't find any sanctions if you broke this pact...

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Mikael

In Sweden a registred SKK/FCI kennel has this rules to follow...

.................................................. ....................................

(Tranlated by google)

3:0 Breeders rules, SKK (Swedish Kennel Club)

Breeder is in his breeding work observe good breeding policy and breed in good faith and not use bitch at too low or too high age, at the earliest at the age recommended by their special club, but never earlier than the second heat. Breeder shall not make an effort in the breeding bitch with too many, too frequent or too large litters, which means:

3:1 that a bitch may not give birth to more than 5 litters

3:2 that bitch over the age of 7 years must always be at least 10 months' rest between the litters. *3:4.

3:3 that bitch that within 10 months had two litters must rest at least 13 months prior to the next litter.

3:4 that the bitch from the age of 7 years, veterinary certificate, which shows that the bitch is in such condition that no barrier to pregnancy exists, could be produced. The certificate must be issued before mating.

.................................................. ..................................

CsV and Saarloos can not neiter be used in breeding before MH-deskription. and you need to make DNA test to prove the parents of the puppies to get the pedigree. ( male need no MH or DNA test if he do not live in Sweden.

I WONDER WHICH RULES ALL COUNTRY´S HAVE ???

And now I´m especially interested in the rules in Italy !!! ???

Very best regards / Mikael

That's not completely true Mikael.. You are forgetting that we also have to follow the rules of The Swedish Board of Agriculture here and according to them you are not allowed to mate a bitch until the second heat yes BUT.... She also have to be at least 18 months old. (no special club can change that)

And when it comes to the Code of ethics for members of the Swedish kennel club it says;

It is incumbent upon every member of the SKK organisation:

3:4

to not allow bitches to give birth to more than five litters. If a bitch has two litters within 12 months it must then be given at least a 12 months rest before the next whelping.

10 and 13 months must be old numbers??

Ninni

PS: And why do you use google to translate? The Code of ethics for members of the Swedish kennel club is available in English at SKK's website... :P

[Hanka]

Hi. I have one question to somebody from german club. Is there any age limit for females? I thought, the females in Germany must be older 18 months for first mateing. And now I look at one kennel, where pups was born in 19 months of mother (if all datas in her database was right). If yes- how is it possible, WDH give pedigree to pups which mother is NOT breeding female yet????
Can somebody explain me it? Thanks Hanka

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi Hanka,

what litter do you exactly mean?

Michael

[Hanka]

of Lasvegas?????????????