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Old 24-03-2011, 15:27   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Satu
After the tests, the sale of puppies is not easy.
True. Need a lot of arguments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by *Satu
Who wants a carrier?
Most of petdog owner if you inform them well and tell them the true...
99 % of the owners of my puppies... so it is ok.

I just only told them "I made the test, and i know i am one of the only one who do it... so the results are there... Which warrantly would you have with the most of breeder whom don't do the test ?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Satu
Others understand the tests to be only one tool in breeding.

Others breeders or dog owners are afraid of being blacklisted. (I already have a bad reputation and we have only ill dogs)
Jealousy is a secondary emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, particularly in reference to a human connection. (from Wikipedia)

The jealousy is, i suppose, the main reason that people give you a bad reputation, and put you in blacklist... even you know you work hard and in the good way.

"Make you duty to the breed as honest people would make it...", a safe way to think for me.

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Originally Posted by *Satu
But true is if we take all carriers away from breeding we can have more serious illness.
Totally agree with you.

I am experimenting some problems with N/N puppies, very weak...

I would highly prefer it is carrier... if better health of course !!
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Old 25-03-2011, 13:04   #202
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Chee'Yr-Wôck dit Mogwai de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/N

(Merci à Carmen et Alessio, d'avoir accepté de faire tester leur chien....) Je suis contente pour vous !
Cordialement
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Old 29-03-2011, 18:24   #203
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test results
Pituitary Dwarfism / Genetischer Nachweis auf Zwergenwuchs - PCR

Aslan vom sturmwind
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N (free)

Cyntia spod dumbiera
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N (free)

Chyez Ddey de la Mollyniere de LoScale
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N (free)


Chogan von keschla
Ergebnis: Genotyp carrier

Chenoa von Keschla
Ergebnis: Genotyp carrier
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Last edited by wera; 29-03-2011 at 18:27.
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Old 30-03-2011, 14:46   #204
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idefix vom wengerhof
test results
Pituitary Dwarfism
Genotyp: N/Dw (carrier)
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Old 31-03-2011, 23:24   #205
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Hi to All.
I haven't been reading on this site lately, too busy doing other things.

Just a small update, for those who may be interested.

I made "unofficial" tests for my dogs Oliver and Lunatica.
Oliver is DM/N but I already knew it from his sons, one N/N and one DM/N and mother of litter N/N can only mean Oliver was DM/N.
This is a confirmation of the result.
As for Lunatica, she is DM/DM.
When in Slovakia Ina took blood from Lunatica therefore I believe it will be possible to make official results from her blood and hopefully make some research from a positive but still healthy (cross my fingers!) wolfdog.
Ina, can you confirm this? can we make official tests from Luni's blood and hopefully use it for further investigation?
Luckily Lunatica was castrated as soon as I knew about her displasia.
I strongly suggest her brothers to make tests too.

She has no serious movement problems, maybe just a little but I guess it is from her displasia, it's been like that since ages.
Oliver instead is already 8 and half years old and is healthier than ever, jumping, running, very goo dshape.
It seems Prague's cold winter is doing him better than italy's warm summers!!
I wish good luck to all the dogs, whoever the owner is, may they live a healthy and happy life.
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Old 01-04-2011, 00:15   #206
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One last comment, then I will return to my long and healthy absence from this site.
I believe that a breeder that "produced" DM/DM dogs has nothing to be ashamed about, he simply wasn't lucky. On the other hand, a breeder who has only N/N dogs was just luck, not a cool breeder.

As already mentioned by Daniela, there is surely another factor than merely the SOD1 gene, and this factor has not been found yet. Let's call it factor F.
Only when Factor F is combined to SOD1 gene, the illness will occur.
It is therefore important, TODAY, from a medical point of view both the SICK dogs (DM/DM and Factor F) and the healthy but positive dogs (DM/DM but no factor F). So testing our dogs is important to help the research MORE than just avoiding to have sick dogs.

As for Breeding and Breeders, DM/N dogs should be used freely in breeding but with a careful attention, and I believe also DM/DM dogs should be used as long as we avoid to produce DM/DM dogs.
Don't forget that from DM/DM dogs also non positive dogs can be born, and with a correct breeding the DM gene can be even eliminated after the second generation.
My Jasna is PROUD niece of Baron Spod Dumbera and is N/N. I am glad he was used in breeding and that he wasnt STUPIDLY cut off.

I believe it is DUTY of a breeder, today, to do the maximum he can to avoid producing DM/DM dogs, but I also believe that it would be a CRIME and DESTRUCTION of our race if breeder used ONLY N/N dogs in his breeding plans or if owners bought ONLY N/N dogs and avoided the DM/N ones.

Goodnight!
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Last edited by massimo; 01-04-2011 at 00:18.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:12   #207
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Massimo, I hope Lunatica will be healthy for all her life!

As for you reflections, for example Spettro is grand grand son of Baron, Spettro's mother is his grand daughter and she's N/N too, so I am happy too the he's been used and I think that the right thing is to test as many dogs as possible without making a witch hunt. Testing is fundamental I still think. Research is too.

I still wish a healthy life without the F factor to every DM/DM dog.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:32   #208
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Hi Massimo, I cross fingers for Lunatica for maximally health life.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:15   #209
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Well said, Massimo. We narrow the gene pool far too much if we avoid using dogs because of a 'bad' result. People have been saying that an N/DM + N/DM breeding will produce 50% affected dogs. Surely, statistically, it would be 25% affected, 50% carrier and 25% free? So by avoiding these breedings, we deny the existance of healthy pups who can carry on the diversity of the gene pool.

PS Everyone. I have never studied genetics so please excuse me if I am wrong and let me know where I have gone wrong.

Love to Lunatica x
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Old 01-04-2011, 20:22   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
.
Only when Factor F is combined to SOD1 gene, the illness will occur.
It is therefore important, TODAY, from a medical point of view both the SICK dogs (DM/DM and Factor F) and the healthy but positive dogs (DM/DM but no factor F). So testing our dogs is important to help the research MORE than just avoiding to have sick dogs.
This was exactly the point Margo was trying to make. We don't know what the role of factor(s) "F" is in DM activation!
Until it's discovered (in the medical sense), all information can only be obtained from the owners and vets of DM symptoms affected dogs and it's a pity so few of them have the nerve to share it.

All the best to Lunatica. I'm sure she'll be fine!
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Old 05-04-2011, 19:23   #211
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Forest de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM
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Old 05-04-2011, 19:27   #212
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Chye Z' Ddey de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM

Sa mère : Cynthia Spod Dumbiera : N/N
Son père : Crying Wolf Rambo : N/DM
Erratum : Son père n'est pas N/DM mais DM/DM ! (comme sa 1/2 soeur Thalia Crying Wolf)

Désolée de cette mauvaise information ....aucune volonté initiale de vouloir cacher, mais erreur de transmission orale de mon vétérinaire ...(justificatif reçu ce jour avec le couperet qui tombe !)


Translation:
Erratum: His father is not N/DM but DM/DM! (as his half sister Thalia Crying Wolf)
Sorry for this wrong information.. there was no intention to hide something but an oral transmition mistake of my vet.

Last edited by Nebulosa; 09-04-2011 at 02:12. Reason: Translation
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Old 06-04-2011, 00:06   #213
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Je suis désolé Lorry.
mais il précise aussi pourquoi la plupart de ses descendants N / DM

Translation:
Im Sorry Lorry.
But it also clarifies why most of his descendants are N/DM
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Last edited by Nebulosa; 09-04-2011 at 02:14. Reason: Translation
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:39   #214
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Bonjour Lorry, je suis très déçue par ces nouvelles, cela ne signifie pas que Rambo va être malade ...
Tous ses enfants sont au moins porteurs, mais ne semble pas l'être par les résultats publiés ici .... ou il ya une erreur sur Rambo? N'est pas possible, par exemple Mogwai, Chye Z 'Ddey de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale, Ckaa Mah-Loup de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale ne peuvent être exemptés. Vérifiez à nouveau le résultat.
Cordialement.


Hello Lorry, I am very disappointed by this news, this does not mean that Rambo will be sick ...

All his children are at least carriers, but seems not to be so by the results published here .... or there is an error on Rambo? It is not possible, for example Mogwai, Chye Z 'Ddey de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale, Ckaa' Mah-Loup de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale can not be exempt. Check again the result.
Regards.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:18   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simo View Post
Tous ses enfants sont au moins porteurs, mais ne semble pas l'être par les résultats publiés ici .... ou il ya une erreur sur Rambo? N'est pas possible, par exemple Mogwai, Chye Z 'Ddey de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale, Ckaa Mah-Loup de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale ne peuvent être exemptés. Vérifiez à nouveau le résultat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simo View Post
Tous ses enfants sont au moins porteurs, mais ne semble pas l'être par les résultats publiés ici .... ou il ya une erreur sur Rambo? N'est pas possible, par exemple Mogwai, Chye Z 'Ddey de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale, Ckaa Mah-Loup de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale ne peuvent être exemptés. Vérifiez à nouveau le résultat.
Bonjour,

Ayant reçu le papier hier soir, je suis encore sous le choc de la mauvaise nouvelle et j'avoue que je n'ai même pas réfléchi ni réagi au bien fondé de ce résultat ....

Votre raisonnement est en effet logique et du coup, je suis encore plus troublée et j'avoue ne plus trop comprendre ....

Pour ce qui est des résultats de Mogwai et Ckaa'Loup-Mah, effectivement ils sont annoncés N/N sur WD ....
Je n'ai pas vu les résultats de mes propres yeux, mais je n'ai aucune raison de douter des dires des propriétaires respectifs ....

Par contre, Chye Z'Ddey est N/N au niveau nanisme, mais n'a jamais été annoncée N/N au niveau MD .....(c'est sa mère Cinthia Spod Dumbiera qui est N/N)

Les tests ADN de Mogwai, (frère de portée de Chye Z'Dey - mariage de Cinthia Spod Dumbiera x Rambo CW ) certifient que les parents sont bien ceux annoncés ....
(je peux scanner le résultat d'Antagène si besoin)

Je vais me tourner vers les laboratoires Laboklin pour savoir s'ils peuvent avoir une marge d'erreur ....Et recommencer le cas échéant, mais de toute façon, ça ne changera pas la donne : Mon élevage est foutu !

Translation:
Having received the pappers yesterday, im still under the shock of the bad news and I confess that I haven't even tought neither responded to the validity of this result.

Your reasoning is logical and sudden, im even more confused and I confess dont understand even more.

About the results of Mogwai and Ckaa'loup-Mah, they are actually announced as N/N in Wolfdog.org, I haven't see the results with my own eyes but I have no reason to doubt of the owners' statement.
However, Chye Z'Ddey is free of Dwarfism and has never been tested to DM (is his mother, Cintia Spod Dumbiera, which is N/N).


The DNA test of Mogwai (brother of Z'dey Chye - mate of Cinthia Spod Dumbiera and Rambo Crying Wolf) certify that the parents are exactly the ones announced (I can scan the results if you whish)

I will contact the labs of Laboklin to see if they can have an margin of error and do it again is necessary, but anyway it will not change the situation, my kennel is... is... do have this problem ( )

Last edited by Nebulosa; 09-04-2011 at 02:52. Reason: translation
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:09   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS View Post
Bonjour,

Ayant reçu le papier hier soir, je suis encore sous le choc de la mauvaise nouvelle et j'avoue que je n'ai même pas réfléchi ni réagi au bien fondé de ce résultat ....

Votre raisonnement est en effet logique et du coup, je suis encore plus troublée et j'avoue ne plus trop comprendre ....

Pour ce qui est des résultats de Mogwai et Ckaa'Loup-Mah, effectivement ils sont annoncés N/N sur WD ....
Je n'ai pas vu les résultats de mes propres yeux, mais je n'ai aucune raison de douter des dires des propriétaires respectifs ....

Par contre, Chye Z'Ddey est N/N au niveau nanisme, mais n'a jamais été annoncée N/N au niveau MD .....(c'est sa mère Cinthia Spod Dumbiera qui est N/N)

Il est vrai, j'ai confondu les deux tests! Mais les autres? Refaire le test! Lorry, une erreur peut également se produire. À ce stade, la question se pose.


Les tests ADN de Mogwai, (frère de portée de Chye Z'Dey - mariage de Cinthia Spod Dumbiera x Rambo CW ) certifient que les parents sont bien ceux annoncés ....
(je peux scanner le résultat d'Antagène si besoin)

Je vais me tourner vers les laboratoires Laboklin pour savoir s'ils peuvent avoir une marge d'erreur ....Et recommencer le cas échéant, mais de toute façon, ça ne changera pas la donne : Mon élevage est foutu !
Le fait même que vous exécutez les tests, cela signifie que ces chiffres doivent travailler à les améliorer, sans oublier que cette condition doit être surveillée, mais pas pour ce devrait être une honte pour tout le monde! Honorez ceux qui font les tests et appariés en conséquence. Toujours de bonne foi. J'étais vous, je pense que pour tester Quirinus et Sibir, si la situation est plus claire, vous agirez en conséquence.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:14   #217
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Na taip, žinoma, rašykime visi savo gimtąja kalba, kam čia vargintis ir naudoti, pavyzdžiui, google.translate?
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:31   #218
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tester Quirinus et Sibir, si la situation est plus claire, vous agirez en conséquence.
Sibir est prévu pour le test le mois prochain .... Quirinus est malheureusement décédé ...

Translation:
Sibir is planned to be tested next month, unfortunately Quirinus passed away.

Last edited by Nebulosa; 09-04-2011 at 02:58. Reason: Translation
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Old 06-04-2011, 13:09   #219
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Lorry, trai again the dm test of Rambo. alls italian MLS tested for the moment by laboklin are N/N. only Batsy et Baloo are non testet for the moment.
Belive me, if dog are carrier n'est pas une onte! Oublie ta idee de quitter l'elevage!!!!Commence a penser a tous les eleveurs FRANCAIS que n'ont pas testè aucun des leurs chiens et sans aucuns regret font de porté.....sense se poser aucun question.
Sei eticamente corretta, gli allevatori non corretti sono ben altri!!
Rifletti svp avant de prendre certaine decision!
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Old 06-04-2011, 13:49   #220
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Lorry, trai again the dm test of Rambo. alls italian MLS tested for the moment by laboklin are N/N. only Batsy et Baloo are non testet for the moment.
Belive me, if dog are carrier n'est pas une onte! Oublie ta idee de quitter l'elevage!!!!Commence a penser a tous les eleveurs FRANCAIS que n'ont pas testè aucun des leurs chiens et sans aucuns regret font de porté.....sense se poser aucun question.
Sei eticamente corretta, gli allevatori non corretti sono ben altri!!
Rifletti svp avant de prendre certaine decision!

Bonjour Silvanna,

Oui je vais refaire tester Rambo, Hanka vient de me donner de précieux conseils et la marche à suivre, auprès du Club Tchèque (merci à elle !)

Quant au reste ..... tu me connais, mieux que personne, tu sais combien je me sentirai vraiment mal dans ma peau de vendre des chiots porteurs ou atteints en sachant que cette fois-ci, je l'ai fait de façon volontaire .....
Ce que font les autres, ne me concerne pas ....
Chacun fait selon son éthique personnelle ...
Moi je n'arrive pas à m'y résoudre et pourtant j'ai 4 femelles en âge de reproduire ....

Bisous

Yes I am going to redo to test Rambo, Hanka has just given me of invaluable advice and the procedure, with the Czech Club (thanks to her !)

As for the rest, you know me, better than anybody, you know how much I shall really feel sick in my skin to sell carrier or affected puppies by knowing that this time, I made it in a voluntary

Way what make the others, do not concern me, each makes according to the personal ethics...
I not résouds me to it not and nevertheless I have 4 females old enough to reproduce....

Kisses

Last edited by Lorry - MLS; 06-04-2011 at 13:53.
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