Go Back   Wolfdog.org forum > English > Health and nutrition

Health and nutrition How to feed a Wolfdog, information about dog food, how to vaccinate and what to do if the dog gets ill....

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22-06-2011, 23:20   #1
loco
Non active.
 
loco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Outside, walking the dog.
Posts: 2,873
Default DM transmission: DM/DM x DM/DM = N/DM?

http://www.wolfhonden-online.nl/foru...hp?f=12&t=8406

Does anybody knows something about this ???
__________________
Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it.......
Then just piss on it and walk away .
loco jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 00:37   #2
draggar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 370
Default

Wow, well, at least their results were good but it is very odd to see results like that.
draggar jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 01:30   #3
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by loco View Post
http://www.wolfhonden-online.nl/foru...hp?f=12&t=8406

Does anybody knows something about this ???
Loco,

I spoke to a scientist at Missouri University who pioneered the DM testing in dogs recently. I am curious as to which labs conducted the DM testing. Missouri University owns the patent to the genetic DM testing, and has ONLY partnered with/granted a usage license to OFFA to offer this test to dogs, and because of this, cannot guarantee the results of other labs' results.

I am not saying that other laboratories are not accurate, but if you would like some answers, I suggest to repeat the DM tests on the dogs through OFFA, and then request additional information from OFFA if the tests return the same and the results are conflicting.

In the meantime, I will present this question to my contact when I speak to her again.

Last edited by yukidomari; 23-06-2011 at 01:37.
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 08:01   #4
miran
Junior Member
 
miran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
I am not saying that other laboratories are not accurate, but if you would like some answers, I suggest to repeat the DM tests on the dogs through OFFA, and then request additional information from OFFA if the tests return the same and the results are conflicting.
I think if the first test where by Missouri University than it is no use to do it by OFA because the buildings are just a few blocks away( 11 min. apart) from each other and they work together.
Or do you mean that the tests where done somewhere else and so maybe for a checkup doing it by them??
miran jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 11:06   #5
Hanka
Senior Member
 
Hanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kadaň
Posts: 1,622
Send a message via ICQ to Hanka Send a message via Skype™ to Hanka
Default DM/DM x DM/DM = N/DM?

Misty, you wrote:
""- Rambo C.W (DM/DM) x Chaddey Spod Dumbiera (N/N) produced a male which is N/N
- Rambo CW (DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N
- Sibir C.W.(DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N too

Filiation test were done, it's proved that the parents are the real parents.
Rambo has been tested twice, the 2 times the result was the same : DM/DM, it's the same for the descendants.

A problem was noticed by another breeder : a couple from free TWH produced a female which is carrier (DM/N).
Genetical test were donne too, to prouve that the parents are the real parents, and they are. ""

I think, it is not possible. Somewhere is mistake. I think human factor.....
Hanka jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 12:19   #6
elf
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 766
Default

Little typo: it's not "Chaddey Spod Dumbiera" but "Cynthia Spod Dumbiera".

Lorry de MLS is currently trying to get all blood samples needed for more investigation to be performed.
elf jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 12:56   #7
draggar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
I think, it is not possible. Somewhere is mistake. I think human factor.....
My question is were the tests done by the same facility or different ones? If it was different facilities who are unaffiliated then I would be worried.
draggar jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 15:09   #8
Lorry - MLS
Member
 
Lorry - MLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by draggar View Post
My question is were the tests done by the same facility or different ones? If it was different facilities who are unaffiliated then I would be worried.
Rambo a été testé 2 fois, une fois chez Laboklin en prise de sang, et par Daniela en salive
Sibir a été testé 1 fois, par Daniela en salive
Cynthia (dite Chaddey) prise de sang chez laboklin
Chee Yr wôck, prise de sang, chez Laboklin
Dheer'Syb et Ckaa'Loup-Mah, 2 fois, chez Laboklin avec prise de sang....

Par le biais de Hanka, avec qui je communique beaucoup par mails, j'ai proposé à Daniela de venir chez moi, quand elle sera en France, en Juillet, pour récupérer directement le sang de Rambo ....(et de tous les chiens qui l'intéresse, pourquoi pas ....)
Pour l'instant je ne sais pas si ce sera possible pour elle ...

Suite à une discussion avec Elf, j'ai également pris l'engagement de tout mettre en oeuvre pour que Rambo, Cyntia (Chaddey) et son fils, soient de nouveau prélevés .....
J'ai d'ores et déjà pris contact avec l'un des propriétaires (j'attends une réponse) et je vois l'autre propriétaire en Suisse, Dimanche....
Histoire à suivre ....
Lorry - MLS jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 18:17   #9
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miran View Post
I think if the first test where by Missouri University than it is no use to do it by OFA because the buildings are just a few blocks away( 11 min. apart) from each other and they work together.
Or do you mean that the tests where done somewhere else and so maybe for a checkup doing it by them??
Miran,

Missouri U/OFFA test is the same. Missouri U has given OFFA the license to use their proprietary tests.

Yes, if they were done elsewhere, perhaps do it through OFFA and then if the results are still conflicting, OFFA/Missouri U researchers should try to answer questions regarding this.

But for now since the tests do not appear to have been done through OFFA, the scientists at Missouri U cannot attempt to answer any questions in this situation.

Last edited by yukidomari; 23-06-2011 at 18:19.
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 19:17   #10
miran
Junior Member
 
miran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukidomari View Post
Miran,

Missouri U/OFFA test is the same. Missouri U has given OFFA the license to use their proprietary tests.

Yes, if they were done elsewhere, perhaps do it through OFFA and then if the results are still conflicting, OFFA/Missouri U researchers should try to answer questions regarding this.

But for now since the tests do not appear to have been done through OFFA, the scientists at Missouri U cannot attempt to answer any questions in this situation.
As I understand the test where done by Laboklin so in that way I also advice to do the test again by OFA
miran jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 19:23   #11
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

But also, we must know whether the puppies of the litters were each individually confirmed to be from the purported parents, and not just 1 or 2 puppies and then assuming the rest must also be from the same litter.
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 23:24   #12
Rona
Distinguished Member
 
Rona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miran View Post
As I understand the test where done by Laboklin so in that way I also advice to do the test again by OFA
Many CSVs have been DM tested by Daniela at Prague University. All results of vlcaks from Poland (+ Lithuania?, Slovakia?, etc.) tested in Prague fit precisely into the pattern (n/n, n/dm, dm/dm) which indicates high validity of the testing procedures.

I wonder what's the statistical probability that a couple of dogs from the same kennel underwent the mutation?
__________________

Rona jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2011, 23:35   #13
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Many CSVs have been DM tested by Daniela at Prague University. All results of vlcaks from Poland (+ Lithuania?, Slovakia?, etc.) tested in Prague fit precisely into the pattern (n/n, n/dm, dm/dm) which indicates high validity of the testing procedures.

I wonder what's the statistical probability that a couple of dogs from the same kennel underwent the mutation?
Sure, other labs may also be accurate, but if you want OFFA scientists to answer any questions, you have to have the tests done through them, since they don't confirm others' results on their patented test.

But I agree that perhaps there's nothing for OFFA scientists to answer, that the problem is somewhere else (and not the tests nor the mode of inheritance).
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2011, 08:33   #14
michaelundinaeichhorn
Senior Member
 
michaelundinaeichhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bad Dürkheim
Posts: 2,249
Default

I don´t know if Missouri was the first to invent a test and it is normal, that different research groups invent their own tests and sell them to commercial labs. As Bern University told me is the used test based on the gene research of a Swedish group.
I don´t know which test Prag is using.
Laboklin has the official permission to do rabies-titers for the import into the EU, what means, it is a lab that fits extremely high standarts and the work is controled on regular basis.
All results I know of fit the results of the parents, so if there is unregularity the right thing to do would be to contact the lab, ask them for their advise, do some paternity tests and - if paternity is positivly stated - let the tests be confirmed by another lab.

Ina
michaelundinaeichhorn jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2011, 13:58   #15
draggar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Many CSVs have been DM tested by Daniela at Prague University. All results of vlcaks from Poland (+ Lithuania?, Slovakia?, etc.) tested in Prague fit precisely into the pattern (n/n, n/dm, dm/dm) which indicates high validity of the testing procedures.

I wonder what's the statistical probability that a couple of dogs from the same kennel underwent the mutation?
Other factors will need to be looked at then. Was it just a plain muitation or could there have been other factors (mother's diet? genetics further back - maybe the recessive genes stay in a N/N dog but aren't seen?).
draggar jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2011, 14:02   #16
Morian
Senior Member
 
Morian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USSR
Posts: 2,047
Send a message via Skype™ to Morian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Many CSVs have been DM tested by Daniela at Prague University. All results of vlcaks from Poland (+ Lithuania?, Slovakia?, etc.) tested in Prague fit precisely into the pattern (n/n, n/dm, dm/dm) which indicates high validity of the testing procedures.

I wonder what's the statistical probability that a couple of dogs from the same kennel underwent the mutation?
it means that not only test results must be checked, but authenticity of their pedigrees too (if their parents are really their parents )
__________________
Morian jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2011, 19:38   #17
lupis
Junior Member
 
lupis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 153
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
Misty, you wrote:
""- Rambo C.W (DM/DM) x Chaddey Spod Dumbiera (N/N) produced a male which is N/N
- Rambo CW (DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N
- Sibir C.W.(DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N too

Filiation test were done, it's proved that the parents are the real parents.
Rambo has been tested twice, the 2 times the result was the same : DM/DM, it's the same for the descendants.

A problem was noticed by another breeder : a couple from free TWH produced a female which is carrier (DM/N).
Genetical test were donne too, to prouve that the parents are the real parents, and they are. ""

I think, it is not possible. Somewhere is mistake. I think human factor.....
I ask veterinary and he say too it is not possible. i not trust in it
lupis jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2011, 23:30   #18
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Many CSVs have been DM tested by Daniela at Prague University. All results of vlcaks from Poland (+ Lithuania?, Slovakia?, etc.) tested in Prague fit precisely into the pattern (n/n, n/dm, dm/dm) which indicates high validity of the testing procedures.

I wonder what's the statistical probability that a couple of dogs from the same kennel underwent the mutation?
Poland dog are tested in Laboklin too, Lithuanian in OFFA too.
__________________

Last edited by wolfin; 24-06-2011 at 23:35.
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-2011, 07:27   #19
Rona
Distinguished Member
 
Rona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
Poland dog are tested in Laboklin too, Lithuanian in OFFA too.
Sure, some were, but:
Quote:
Many CSVs have been DM tested by Daniela at Prague University.
I meant, wherever the dogs were tested - in Laboklin, OFA or in Prague, by saliva or blood samples, the results fit each other and the whole pattern. What's more - they confirn the earlier tests That's why saying that one lab's more reliable than another makes no sense.
The case considered here could be a mutation, a mistake, a miracle or a lie and the question is - which are more probable, and which less.
__________________


Last edited by Rona; 25-06-2011 at 07:47.
Rona jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-2011, 09:28   #20
CDaniela
http://www.srdcervac.wbs.
 
CDaniela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Unhošť - Nouzov
Posts: 1,313
Default

- Rambo C.W (DM/DM) x Chaddey Spod Dumbiera (N/N) produced a male which is N/N
- Rambo CW (DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N
- Sibir C.W.(DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N too



It isn´t possible.
__________________
Daniela

CDaniela jest offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Wolfdog.org