CzW breeders in UK

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Quiche

2) I read that someone (sorry i haven't pay to much attention to the name.. the applogize: i am a noob ) had a litter of WD here in england.
so i assume that it is possible now that some breeder appeare around uk?

hi there are two breeders in uk. myself paul and my friend Andre, it seems we have problem on web site as uk breeders do not have flag or been updated, so its hard for peple to contact or find us via wolfdog.org we wil soon have our own web sit for uk so people can find us, there are pups born yester day in uk, all our breeding stock are hip tested and eye tested, we vet everyone who wants a puppy, you have to visit to see the dogs we then decide weather you are suitable owner for a Czechoslovakian wolfdog, this is our third litter born in uk from 2003, regards paul

[bengan]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi there are two breeders in uk. myself paul and my friend Andre, it seems we have problem on web site as uk breeders do not have flag or been updated, so its hard for peple to contact or find us via wolfdog.org we wil soon have our own web sit for uk so people can find us, there are pups born yester day in uk, all our breeding stock are hip tested and eye tested, we vet everyone who wants a puppy, you have to visit to see the dogs we then decide weather you are suitable owner for a Czechoslovakian wolfdog, this is our third litter born in uk from 2003, regards paul

Hello Paul,

I'm new to this forum and my questions might already have been answered..but here it is ..
If a CWdog has a litter in the UK.. are the puppies eligible for an official pedigree and or are they officially recognized as a CWdog by an FCI recognized institute or organization?

regards
Bengan

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

Hello Paul,

I'm new to this forum and my questions might already have been answered..but here it is ..
If a CWdog has a litter in the UK.. are the puppies eligible for an official pedigree and or are they officially recognized as a CWdog by an FCI recognized institute or organization?

regards
Bengan

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

[bengan]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

Thanks for the reply.. so if I understand you correctly.. if someone were to buy a CWDog puppy from you that was born in the UK and wanted to show the dog here in europe, they could not because the dog is not FCI recognized as a CWDog and if they wanted to breed here in Europe.. the litter would not be eligible for a FCI recognized pedigree or registration..

You said that that you have had 3 litters in the UK and that means that they do not have a FCI recognized registration. I hope for you sake that the CWDog is recognized, in the UK, in the near future.

Personally I don't think it's very advantageous for the breed to have that many non recognized dog in the population. I could also imagine that breeders in the rest of Europe ,where the CWDog is recognized, would not be very willing to breed with a CWDog that was born in the UK and without an official pedigree. Down the road people Could raise questions on how pure the offspring are, breeding with a non recognized dog is cross breeding to some people.


Once again thank you for the clarification.
Bengan

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

Thanks for the reply.. so if I understand you correctly.. if someone were to buy a CWDog puppy from you that was born in the UK and wanted to show the dog here in europe, they could not because the dog is not FCI recognized as a CWDog and if they wanted to breed here in Europe.. the litter would not be eligible for a FCI recognized pedigree or registration..

You said that that you have had 3 litters in the UK and that means that they do not have a FCI recognized registration. I hope for you sake that the CWDog is recognized, in the UK, in the near future.

Personally I don't think it's very advantageous for the breed to have that many non recognized dog in the population. I could also imagine that breeders in the rest of Europe ,where the CWDog is recognized, would not be very willing to breed with a CWDog that was born in the UK and without an official pedigree. Down the road people Could raise questions on how pure the offspring are, breeding with a non recognized dog is cross breeding to some people.


Once again thank you for the clarification.
Bengan

hi Bengan, you are correct we do not have any kennel club issued pedigrees, only for the first litter,we keep all records and health screenings, there are breeders in Europe who will let us use there dogs at stud this is not a problem, all our dogs are registered on wolfdog.org all are chipped and can be identified, all breedings in Europe are logged and photos taken of each mating, so you can be assured that no cross breeding takes place, we have asked kennel club of uk, and as long as we keep records if they get recognised then all dogs can have pedigrees, you are allowed to have your personal opinions on any matter and i hope this helps you with yours on the dogs in u.k, i wouldnt get to concerned as we do know what we are doing, and the down the road people can think as they wish, in fact last year we produced a fantasic litter of cwdogs by going backwards in the lines, we got good type, bone, hight, coat and temperament and all dogs are out going, last show we visited in Holland we seen dogs from France that looked more like jackals and where affraid of there own shadows, going forward is not always the way to go, regards paul

[bengan]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

Paul,
Question.. you said that your club is keeping records, the chipping is done by a club member and the mating is witnessed by 2 members..
What is the name of your club in the UK and is it an official club with a registered club charter..? and how many members are there and how can one become a member..?

in fact last year we produced a fantasic litter of cwdogs by going backwards in the lines, we got good type, bone, hight, coat and temperament and all dogs are out going, last show we visited in Holland we seen dogs from France that looked more like jackals and where affraid of there own shadows, going forward is not always the way to go

It's a shame that they are not officially recognized as CWDogs an are not eligible to be shown in europe, if only to have your opinions/thoughts/comments verified as to the quality of the CWDogs that you are breeding.


Bengan

[bengan]

Paul I guess I have to ask the question again..
"Paul,
Question.. you said that your club is keeping records, the chipping is done by a club member and the mating is witnessed by 2 members..
What is the name of your club in the UK and is it an official club with a registered club charter..? and how many members are there and how can one become a member..?
"
How many members are there.. or is it just you and Mandy..? would explain how two member could be present during the mating..
Correct me if I am wrong.. but I could not find anything on your website.. or even through google.. regarding "your club"
If there is a club... would love to see the charter and member list...website....
the ball is in your court so to say...
Bengan

[Ori]

Hi,
I’ve spent some time working and living in UK. During this time tried to find people with CsV. I’ve contacted a lot people in love with Czech Wolfdogs. Some of them are the owners of CsV. As you know CsV are not recognized breed in UK. It means for “breeders” – they can’t sell puppies as pure breed. So any people I’ve contacted decided to cross pure Czech, as they want this blood for pups, but have no hope for “legal” litters.
To be true – this people are not ready to fight for Wolfdogs. They may love them, adore them, they want to breed them but… nothing more.
I met in UK one man Wolfdog crazy. He and his family left all and decided to go one way – Czech Wolfdog way. They live close to their CsV, spent whole time with them.
They are brave – they keep Czech Wolfdogs officially – as CsV, even they could be punished for this. They do lot’s of paperwork with UK Kennel Club, year after year trying to be closer to recognition of the breed.
They do not cross CsV, keep them pure and tested.
The people are Paul and Mandy, the only ones ready to fight for Wolfdogs in UK.

They opened their house and hearts for me and my Wolfdogs. They always asked – how we can help you here in UK. And finally they helped me a lot. XXX

UK is not FCI country. It will never be that FCI rules would be there. As you live there, you can see – everything in UK is opposite than in EU.
So the HD measure is different as well.
Thinking about breeding in UK – bringing CsV to UK and making litters is first step that should be done to recognize the breed in UK. They need bigger population, if not – have no chance for recognition.
As I understand the idea – now, as CsV are not recognized, but also in future, as they will be official Kennel Club breed – UK Wolfdogs (litters) are for UK people. So they always will be “pets” for EU breeders, but breeding by Paul – we can be sure they will be pure and healthy Czech.
I’ve met Paul’s Wolfdogs few times – they are VERY open, healthy and full of joy. Full of energy as well They look much better than SOME of CsV I’ve met, showing my dogs in West EU. They love visitors. Have very nice and strong characters. I wish all CsV would have characters like them.

You may not like Paul, or ways how he is reacting, but if you think about the breed – you can sleep well.
By

[nanouk]

I’ve met Paul’s Wolfdogs few times – they are VERY open, healthy and full of joy
They look much better than SOME of CsV I’ve met, showing my dogs in West EU. They love visitors. Have very nice and strong characters. I wish all CsV would have characters like them.

Are you sure he is breeding TWd than, by my best knowledge the official breedstandards speaks of "mistrustfull".

Furthermore, Paul, once again to you.. one wonders, are you really just all talk ?
Asking me, an owner of SWH to provide you with the DNA testing is useless. If you want information, dna of my dog i am all but willing to assist. For all other actions i advise you, once again , to take an official way, the dutch kennelclub provides such a way, which you should have known if you were only half way serious, and put your money actually were your mouth is, and don't try and hide later on by stating you "asked" me for assistance in DNA testing but i was not willing to help

And no, i do not question dna testing done under the auspicien of the UK kennel club, nor do i question dna results done under the same conditions.
HD tests done by a local vet, well, those i always take in a little sceptic, but hey, that is irrelevant, cause the dogs don't have papers to start with !

I know the UK is not a FCI country, but i can go to crufst with my irish red, import a stud and use it on my fci dogs and get FCI papers.. can you provide the same?
I could better refrase and state that i do frown apon breeding without official papers, for many countries that being FCI, specially the origin countries of both SWD and TWD.
All other can imho in no way benifit 2 breeds with already such small populations!

[nanouk]

since you found, agina the time to write all this..
i, am maybe some other memebrs with me are curious to the quetstions Bengan hast posted for you in several topics, which you seem to oversee or ignore..
as a reminder:

Paul I guess I have to ask the question again..
"Paul,
Question.. you said that your club is keeping records, the chipping is done by a club member and the mating is witnessed by 2 members..
What is the name of your club in the UK and is it an official club with a registered club charter..? and how many members are there and how can one become a member..?
"
How many members are there.. or is it just you and Mandy..? would explain how two member could be present during the mating..
Correct me if I am wrong.. but I could not find anything on your website.. or even through google.. regarding "your club"
If there is a club... would love to see the charter and member list...website....
the ball is in your court so to say...
Bengan

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by nanouk

since you found, agina the time to write all this..
i, am maybe some other memebrs with me are curious to the quetstions Bengan hast posted for you in several topics, which you seem to oversee or ignore..
as a reminder:

you are more concerned about your own little subject about a club, i am talking about dogs being falsely registered and sold to people without them knowing, dogs that will loose there registrations and there offspring, we can take our dogs to France and get our dogs conformation done at dog show they will then have pedigree with FCI, so why keep on about it, but we will get them recognised in uk , and they will have pedigrees anyway so what exactly is your problem with our dogs?? please tell us as we are sick to death of reading your sarcastic mails, we can get our dogs registered in europe check it out for yourself,, the book is still opened in France and some other european countries, you must think we are stuppid or something, i can send you copy of letter from FCI when we enquired about it 3 years ago// all our dogs are from european stock, all breeding dogs and bitchs are hip scored, eye tested,and they will have there pedigrees soon, our club is made up of everyone who has a Czechoslovakian wolfdog, and we have ohers who just love the breed, we are not a recognised breed through the kenel club as they at presnt do not recognise the breed, there are at present 23 dogs in u.k. our breeding bitchs are all on passports so we can travel to europe to get matings, we also will have more stud dogs soon, in 7 years we have bred 3 litters in uk. It is not our fault the Kennel club took our pups of there register, we have still refused to have licence for our dogs and to comply to keeping them locked up, our dogs travel in uk everyday with there owners, we will have meet up in summer for owners and dogs, i hope this puts your mind at rest, but there are issues in europe also that need to be looked at and it is my duty to inform other breeders of what i know, how would you like to have purchased a dog then find out it was falsly registered, its against the ruling of the FCI, it is also illegal to transport puppies under 8 weeks into another european country, and its also very stressful to be put in crate at this age for lot of hours in back of van, then chipped then back in van for more hours,, i will put stop to all of this but it would be nice for some support, another case will conclude very shortly and then everyone who has questioned my honesty can back off,
i am only concerned for the welfare of the dogs the breeders will answer to the kennel clubs and the FCI and get there justly rewards. r winder

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Solowolf

dont worry about the wolfdogs in uk. we are in mettings at present, you are so concerned over our club, you fail to take action about what is going on at your own door steps, are any of you even going to ask Gabrille, it is a discrace what is going on. i put on information to this site and all i get asked is about the uk club

I worry about the UK situation of the breed because UK laws are used by some countries as exemple for the basis of new laws, principally when these laws are about forbid dog breeds.
Pit Bull was sometimes banned in some states here using the UK law as excuse and exemple, not only Pit Bulls but some other breeds, some that still nor have enter on my country, this not happens only where I live but in others countries too, that's why any law that envolves control of the breeding of one dog worry all people wich loves this breed, it's the case, for UK is very difficult breeding CzW and they, as I read, are treat as wild animals because DEFRA laws.
Suposed that happen an accident with a CzW in other country, wich law people will use for ban this breed or put a rigorous control of the breeding in the country? the DEFRA law.
That's why clubs and the situation of the breed in a country that already have laws against this breed worry all people that loves CzW.

[bengan]

Originally Posted by solowolf

you are more concerned about your own little subject about a club, i am talking about dogs being falsely registered and sold to people without them knowing, dogs that will loose there registrations and there offspring, we can take our dogs to France and get our dogs conformation done at dog show they will then have pedigree with FCI, so why keep on about it, but we will get them recognised in uk , and they will have pedigrees anyway so what exactly is your problem with our dogs?? please tell us as we are sick to death of reading your sarcastic mails, we can get our dogs registered in europe check it out for yourself,, the book is still opened in France and some other european countries, you must think we are stuppid or something, i can send you copy of letter from FCI when we enquired about it 3 years ago// all our dogs are from european stock, all breeding dogs and bitchs are hip scored, eye tested,and they will have there pedigrees soon, our club is made up of everyone who has a Czechoslovakian wolfdog, and we have ohers who just love the breed, we are not a recognised breed through the kenel club as they at presnt do not recognise the breed, there are at present 23 dogs in u.k. our breeding bitchs are all on passports so we can travel to europe to get matings, we also will have more stud dogs soon, in 7 years we have bred 3 litters in uk. It is not our fault the Kennel club took our pups of there register, we have still refused to have licence for our dogs and to comply to keeping them locked up, our dogs travel in uk everyday with there owners, we will have meet up in summer for owners and dogs, i hope this puts your mind at rest, but there are issues in europe also that need to be looked at and it is my duty to inform other breeders of what i know, how would you like to have purchased a dog then find out it was falsly registered, its against the ruling of the FCI, it is also illegal to transport puppies under 8 weeks into another european country, and its also very stressful to be put in crate at this age for lot of hours in back of van, then chipped then back in van for more hours,, i will put stop to all of this but it would be nice for some support, another case will conclude very shortly and then everyone who has questioned my honesty can back off,
i am only concerned for the welfare of the dogs the breeders will answer to the kennel clubs and the FCI and get there justly rewards. r winder

Paul
I guess you have your own option as to what is important and it’s easier to point a finger at someone else then to look at oneself and what you are doing to the breeding stock without something so trivial as breeding without a recognized or registered breeding club or FCI registration.
You’ve made a lot of claims.. regarding your club and the manner in which you operate as well as claims about actions of other breeders in Europe..
You have not answered any of the question regarding your so called club and the as of yet you have not produced any prove or shown any reaction from the kennel club in the Netherlands..
You may find my comments as sarcastic.. but you have been blowing your horn about some breeders in Europe and continue to tell us that it will all come and that many dogs will be losing their registration, causing unrest by many owners. You have been doing this for the last 6 months.. and still nothing has been proven or even been published in any press.. and the claims that the dogs will be removed from the breeder because of the living conditions. I have not heard of any of this.. and if the situation was really as bad as you claimed and you had reported it to the proper authorities one would think that some action would have been taken..
I hope everyone will… To quote you “get there justly rewards” or should I say “their just rewards”..
Bengan