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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters....

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Old 19-04-2007, 23:04   #1
Huan
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Default People breeding mixes beware !!

Due to recent actions of some breeders we decided not to stay passive. There are some proofs that again there are people who are trying to include Canadian Wolf mixes into our breed without acceptance of Czech and Slovakian clubs. This means that the people do it on their own and don't care what the guarantee of the breed has to say.

It does not matter whether the national kennel club of the specific breeders allow them to register mixes as Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. We will not look at this with peace. We have to protect people who plan to get a CzW pup or are looking for stud dogs for their females. A majority of us did choose the breed of Czechoslovakian wolfdogs for some reason and not because they wanted to have unpredictable wolf crossings that can result from such dangerous crossings.

For this reason we will make some special arrangements on wolfdog.org:

1) Breeders involved in breeding of mixes will disappear from breeders' listings and their litter advertisements will be removed.

2) There will be also no contact information to the breeder in the database

3) All dogs that are offsprings of mixes will be marked in the database as MIXES. All their offsprings will get the same status.

The changes will get online within next 7 days.
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Old 19-04-2007, 23:37   #2
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Thanks god, Przemek. I weit it from you loooong time
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Old 20-04-2007, 00:01   #3
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hi

this is exactly ne problem in fact in french some poeple take saarlos and C S V they mixte the breed the aren't breeders

and some poeple mixte german sherperd and Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs

in france there is mre and more poeple so want to win money with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs

but for this moment don't arrived in exposition or in realy breeders.

in france we couldn't do it any think because i's not breeder but have added comment on the web against this

against this information is realy importante
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Old 20-04-2007, 00:51   #4
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Default A very wise decission

For what it's worth: a very wise decission
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Old 20-04-2007, 01:00   #5
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\o/

grat decision!
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Old 20-04-2007, 07:35   #6
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MANY THANKS!!!!
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Old 20-04-2007, 08:45   #7
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Very good.
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Old 20-04-2007, 09:47   #8
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I have a question:
you mean that the "proven" mixes and the breeders involved will be taken away or also the "believed" offspring of mixes.
Before reading people writing "very good" (which honestly makes me laugh unless I really know what will happen) can you inform me if you intend cancelling information of Passo del Lupo because of the "supposed" involvement?
in that case maybe you should cancel the ENTIRE wolfdog production of passo del lupo...which means you would have much less dogs on database.
It will be funny.
Ah, of course if a bonitation of a dog is being done publically then it's not hidden.
If somebody attacks you then the first thing you do is hide and ...
"maybe" you will again know about mutaras when it's too late.
These attacks don't really frighten people, just make them hide.

Clever, very clever.

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Old 20-04-2007, 12:32   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo
I have a question:
you mean that the "proven" mixes and the breeders involved will be taken away or also the "believed" offspring of mixes.
Before reading people writing "very good" (which honestly makes me laugh unless I really know what will happen) can you inform me if you intend cancelling information of Passo del Lupo because of the "supposed" involvement?
in that case maybe you should cancel the ENTIRE wolfdog production of passo del lupo...which means you would have much less dogs on database.
It will be funny.
Ah, of course if a bonitation of a dog is being done publically then it's not hidden.
If somebody attacks you then the first thing you do is hide and ...
"maybe" you will again know about mutaras when it's too late.
These attacks don't really frighten people, just make them hide.
Bonitation made by one of the Mutara owners (Jedlicka) is NOT official thing... And the P1 which the Mix get is just another embarrassment of someone who calls himself "CzW expert"... But again: connections are more important than common sense....


BUT AGAIN TO THE TOPIC:
The steps which Przemek listed are not directed to the PDL dog owners. ALL dogs from this kennel (and all other kennels which are breeding mixes) will be still listed in the database. Nobody will be "hurt" by Wolfdog.org - sure I think now nobody can be proud to have a dog from such kennel but the owners and the dogs are no responsible what the breeders do....
So if any owners will also suffer from this ONLY the breeders will be responsible for it because after they decided to breed mixes and the genetic of dogs bred by them become dubious....

The steps will be directed ONLY against specific dogs - ALL dogs with unknown pedigree will be marked RED in the database as "possible mutts".
Mutaras and ALL THEIR OFFSPRINGS (and I think nobody has already doubs that Alaska is such case) will be not only marked but the visitors will be alos warned against them.

Litters of breeders breeding mixes and Mutaras will be no more shown and the breeders will dissappear from the listings. It is really nothing new - we also do not advertise breeders breedings dogs outside FCI (without the pedigree) and also the Czech Mutara breeders are not more listed since some years...
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Old 20-04-2007, 12:32   #10
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Sorry, I forgot to add:
I remember someware Margo wrote that on wolfdog.org are published all litters requested:
even the litters from dogs with displasia, from dogs without bonitation, from dogs heavily inbred.
Reason was that this would allow all to see such "wrong" things and to keep this kind of info under the eyes of all.
I somehow agree with this point of view, although I really hate seeing litters from brothers and niece and grandfather and displasic dogs. But I prefer to see them than to know they are existing and beeing all hidden.
Don't forget we can all see S. PDL dogs are on database and we can all see there is not a distant heritage...luckily we can see it!!!
Maybe we have no Proof of were this dog comes from, but at least we can make our own evaluations.
I hope to have expressed clearly my position
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Old 20-04-2007, 13:00   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo
I remember someware Margo wrote that on wolfdog.org are published all litters requested:
Massimo, we will make our best to inform visitors more and more... and to make the info better and better... The puppy buyers are informed about the HD and ED-results. In the new database they will be also informed about inbreed coefficient of the puppies so everybody can see the extrem cases...

....BUT....

Wolfdog.org ist Wolfdog of CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS. Mutaras and puppies of Alaska are maybe WOLFDOGS but not CZECHOSLOVAKIAN. We do not put here ads of Saarloos Wolfdogs, we do not publish ads from American Wolfdog breeders and we will also not publish here info about any other mixes...

Sorry but this behaviour of the italian breeder made me really furious. The litter of Alaska was advertised on Wolfdog.org. I was deceived. The people get wrong information and were also cheated.

I told you we will remove all liars from Wolfdog - all people sending us wrong info about HD-results, genetic of their dogs or other SERIOUS things...

And about the rest - everybody has the right to talk about it... I told you: it is not OUR mission to talk about faults of the breeders. If someone has a puppy with HD-problems because the breeder bred two dysplatic dogs - write about it. If someone has problems with extremly shyness because the breeder bred two extremly shy dogs and keep the puppies without socialization in cages - please write about it. If a breeder makes very strong inbreed - inform other about it.... We will take a look on such topics and try to improve also the services of Wolfdog.... but we are not here to fight with other breeders even if they do some things wrong....
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Old 20-04-2007, 15:20   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo
please write about it. If a breeder makes very strong inbreed - inform other about it....
This is the best we can do to help others: inform others about what we know, without critisizing and without accusing: simply informing others what they MIGHT incounter by buying a certain dog.

OT: any way to SEARCH in the litters or write next to the litters a STAR indicating dogs are bonitated (real bonitation, not just youth one...) and with "verified" xrays??
That would be interesting.
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Old 20-04-2007, 15:30   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo
OT: any way to SEARCH in the litters or write next to the litters a STAR indicating dogs are bonitated (real bonitation, not just youth one...) and with "verified" xrays??
That would be interesting.
We will do even more - x-rays which are not "verified" (when we do not have the copy of the result) will not appear in the litter ads. The youth prezentation results will be shown with start. Bonitation results of unofficial bonitation will be also not showed....
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Old 20-04-2007, 15:39   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo
We will do even more - x-rays which are not "verified" (when we do not have the copy of the result) will not appear in the litter ads. The youth prezentation results will be shown with start. Bonitation results of unofficial bonitation will be also not showed....
For me youth bonitation is worth NOTHING if we speak about reproduction and litter and as important as unverified HD.

ah...remember Sona's bonitation in Reggio is valid...

I still haven't understood this point:
"puppies of Alaska are maybe WOLFDOGS but not CZECHOSLOVAKIAN" doesn't prove PDL's involvement in Mutaras...just mating with uncertified czech wolfdog.
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Old 20-04-2007, 16:16   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo
I still haven't understood this point:
"puppies of Alaska are maybe WOLFDOGS but not CZECHOSLOVAKIAN" doesn't prove PDL's involvement in Mutaras...just mating with uncertified czech wolfdog.
I base on the post I found in the next topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinga
Hi,

I interested in puppy Passo del Lupo but read about Alaska and am worried. I asked breeder and have reply. I publish it as legit recipent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Passo del Lupo
Sangria is a son of Lion Passo del Lupo and Alaska (not Viky).

In all the world, the FCI give the possibility (only for some breed not
fixed yet) to inseret some new blood for became better.

Mutara is a test and the son of Mutara is not on sale.

Jindra are a friend of my and he has some problems (in Czech) to see how
sons of mutara will grow.

Hartl tell to me to help Jindra and I can help him.

A lot of the information present in Wolfdog are not true, only the "good"
people can write and some of them are not "friend of us".

I will continues to breed my dogs.

Regards.
It's legall?
Maybe it is wrong English but for me it is clear the S-litter are Mutaras and the litter has been made as "help" for Jindra who want to see how mixes develop but he "project" was stopped and banned by the origin clubs... Or am I wrong?
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Old 20-04-2007, 16:32   #16
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Margo stai attenta a quello che scrivi.

"Passo del Lupo" non ha scritto nulla, non è neache iscritto.

Anche questa volta stai scrivendo falsità cercando di comandare i giochi.
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Old 20-04-2007, 16:36   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabio..
Margo stai attenta a quello che scrivi.

"Passo del Lupo" non ha scritto nulla, non è neache iscritto.

Anche questa volta stai scrivendo falsità cercando di comandare i giochi.
OK, I will ask on the second forum who send this email - anyway the woman wrote it was send by the breeder of Sangria....
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Old 21-04-2007, 08:31   #18
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PAIDA99; you wrote; "this is exactly ne problem in fact in french some poeple take saarlos and C S V they mixte the breed the aren't breeders
and some poeple mixte german sherperd and Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs "


Do you have any proofs about that, or is it only wild rumours?
Is there any dog DNA tested? And can you tell is there many breeders who do something like this?

(i know, it happened, but how strong proofs people have?)

-Suski, from Finland
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Old 21-04-2007, 08:46   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfsirius
PAIDA99; you wrote; "this is exactly ne problem in fact in french some poeple take saarlos and C S V they mixte the breed the aren't breeders
and some poeple mixte german sherperd and Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs "


Do you have any proofs about that, or is it only wild rumours?
Is there any dog DNA tested? And can you tell is there many breeders who do something like this?

(i know, it happened, but how strong proofs people have?)

-Suski, from Finland
That's no need " big proof's " , probably isn't only in french that happen cross with GSD and others mix, so, in all worl will exist someone who cross one breed with other, someone as an accidend, someone for see the " miracle of life" and some only for the curiosity, the CzW isn't save of this people.
I saw one topic in french forum wich one puppys search for new home, this puppy is a CzW cross.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabrice
in france we couldn't do it any think because i's not breeder but have added comment on the web against this
So, the situation is a little bit different, isn't one breeder as Passo del Lupo, isn't dogs with pedigree ( I really want to believe in it).
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Old 21-04-2007, 08:59   #20
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I didnt mean "just any mixes" as i told, we have in Finland already mixes with Csv/husky/tamaskan, and we have only few csv in Finland,(ca. 20) so situation is very worried.

But i ask if there is any proofs (real ones) that some breeder used csv in swh or swh in csv or csv and gsd and still registered puppies as a purebreed?

There is cases where breeder get catch on similary things,

like with giant schnauzers time ago, on other country at dogshow owner of puppy went to owner of puppy's father and said; i have puppy from your male. Owner of male said that this male never had puppies, and then came long discussion, dna tests etc. and puppy wasnt real offspring of that male, only in paper.

So that i am looking for, any cases with REAL proofs?
(so that puppies ARE REGISTERED)

-Suski
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