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Health and nutrition How to feed a Wolfdog, information about dog food, how to vaccinate and what to do if the dog gets ill.... |
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08-01-2004, 22:20 | #1 |
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Epilepsy and wolfdogs!?
This week I got a question from a owner of a CsW with epilepsy. He wanted to know if there are more CsW's or SW's with epilepsy. And I did not know exactly (I only heard rumours).
Unfortunaly in the kynlogian world a lot of people don't want to talk about diseases and hereditary lacks in a breed But at the end that's very silly of course. Because only when you know what is going wrong in breeding lines, you can do something about it ! Of course no breeder is very happy when something unpleasant is happening in his breeding programm. But not one breeder shall do this on purpose! But when it happens and the breeder does not talk about this, and doesn't change anything, always the individual owners and their dogs will be the victim! And that's why I am so glad with very honest breeders like Philipe Bescond for example! (He did give honest information about a kryptorchid dog) That kind of breeders realy take care of a healthy breed. If all breeders would be as responsible as he, there wouldn´t be any genetic problems in the future! On this moment I am very curious if there are more CsW's and SW's with epilepsy in Europe. Thats why I have a few questions for the readers of this site: Is (or was) one of you owner or breeder of a CsW or a SW with epilepsy? How old was your dog when he got it? What kind of medication did he get? I added the same questions at the Dutch site. And I hope people will be so cooperative to give honest answers! Greetings, Mijke |
09-01-2004, 12:52 | #2 |
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My Csv has also been diagnosed with epilepsy recently. He is now 3 years old and got his first seizure when he was about 2.5 years old.
Luckily his illness is not severe, as he has had only a few seizures in the last six months. Currently he is receiving pills with his food and appears normal but it is still too early to say wheter this medication is right for him. Tuukka & Thor |
13-01-2004, 15:07 | #3 | ||
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Re: Epilepsy and wolfdogs!?
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So far (compared to the whole population) they seem to be an exception, but... we saw almost all the dogs have something common with each other. We tried to find common ancestors of this dogs and check if it is a problem of two of the lines of CzW. Almost without success... we marked only one line (thanks to the responsible breeders and owners from Germany). Reason? You already wrote about it. Maybe Pavel can write more about it, but there were also some cases in the Czech Republic and the breeding committee knows this problem but they don't want to publish the information. And so far we do not know all ill dogs we are not able to fight with this disease.... Quote:
But HD is a disease which is hard to control. There are better examples: heart problems, cancer (which so far reach only dogs which are ancestors from a dogs from one kennel). But the truth is: so far we do not have sufficient information about illness of CzWs. I can make some conjectures but there is not enough data to prove it. It's the reason it's exceptionally important to colect the information about all diseases and death causes. We will need it - maybe not in the near future but in next 4-5(?) generations... So someone of you knows a CzW which died because of an exceptional reasons (a disease which can be inherited: heart problems, HD, ED, PRA, cancer, epilepsy, and, and..) please let us know. We will not publish this information - we will just save it for future until we will be sure we have enough proofs...
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13-01-2004, 22:58 | #4 | ||
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And when people are going on and on with the same breeding lines with genetic health problems, we all don't notice the problems on this moment. But in future this can ruin a breed, and then we all know what was going on!! I only can aks, just like Margo did, please inform eachother about these things! Only when we all are honoust and work together we can keep healthy breeds ! greetings, mijke |
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13-01-2004, 23:14 | #5 |
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Unfortunately I was one of the owners of an epileptic dog. My previous dog had epilepsy. The story started as an one seizure a tha age of 2,5 years and then nothing for half year. But then seizures started again and with shorter intervals. Moreover they occured in clusters. Treated with barbiturates and valproic acid derivates per os then when the worse came into worst with injections of diazepam to stop seizures. Finaly the life of my dog consisted of seizures every 4-5 hours and lying down on the floor without eating and drinking for days. Nothing helped he was unable to walk. I euthanized him no necropsy was done, maybe mistake but that time I was unable to send him to lab. The story is on pages of Czech kennel club. I don't blame his breeder it was probably the first case from all of her puppies.
Jiri |
14-01-2004, 10:27 | #6 |
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I absolutely agree with Margo and try to collect cases since years. But with epileptic dogs you have to be aware that not every case is inherited and that not every inherited case means a problem in the line. That makes observation double necessary to recognise genetic problems in time but a few cases are absolutely "normal" in dog breeds, like in cats, humans and so on. Even in breeds with epileptic breedinglines the genetic ways are sometimes very different.
It is because of these problems very important for breeders to stay in contact with the owners of their puppies. This is, as I can say out of own experience, sometimes almost impossible. If puppiebuyers don´t tell their breeders about problems he has no possibility to realise problems in time. Ina |
15-01-2004, 00:08 | #7 | ||
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But all kind of health problems seems to be a secret in every breed It is very strange but even owners don't want to talk about it. Some individual persons did give me confidentinal the health information about their dog, but they don't want me to talk about it to other persons, breeders or clubs. I had hope maybe they should react on this forum or on the dutch forum but non reactions And I think they are to blame to.... Of course nobody wants to have epilepsy, heart problems etc (genetic or not) in breeding lines. But when nearly nobody wants to speak about these things, you can wait for problems in future.... Mijke |
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19-01-2004, 17:33 | #8 | |
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I checked the info about epilepsy already before when we get info about first ill dogs (Ina, please correct me if I'm wrong). There are two types of epilepsy - acquired and inherited. To check with which case we deal by a dog we have to examine him. First the veterinarian will try to exclude the possibility of acquired epilepsy which can be evoked by different factors: injury of the head, diseases, aso.. If all this reasons are eliminated it is probably inherited epilepsy. Additionally in the most cases the inherited epilepsy disclose before the age of 5 years (usually earlier). We are not vets but using the database we can also check the possibilily of a inherited epilepsy. If there are more dogs from one line which before 5 y. fall ill it is probably inherited epilepsy. The probability of a right diagnosis grows if we have information about more ill dogs...
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19-01-2004, 18:44 | #9 | |
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In humans the primary form is definatly genetic. In dogs there is a primary form at least in some breeds. Research for that exists only for some laboratory breeds and lines. The diagnostic possibilitys in dogs are often not good enough to differ between those two forms and the genetic way seems to differ between breeds. In cases like the discribed one where the seizures got worse under treatment and the dog had to be put down a secundary form is much more likely. The primary form normally occurs between two and five years of age. Brain damages that can cause epilepsy don´t have to be that bad and the seizures can occure years later. We once had a case where we think, that the seizure causing accident happend 4 years before, the dog ran into a fence and was a little bit dizzy for one hour. There is no way to get a secure diagnosis of secundary epilepsy in a case like that. All these problems make the diagnosis of inherited forms so very difficult and more or less its a question of counting cases and watching lines. Anyway a dog with epilepsy should be kept out of breeding and it is for great interest for breeding that it goes to autopsy after his death. As you see I´m not any wiser than you are and I have looked up every book in reach some month ago. As long as there isn´t a relevant increase of cases in a special line we don´t know if there is a genetic problem in the breed or not. The authors of the diffrent books give different advise for consequences. Some say you shouldn´t breed the parents of the dog too some just speak of the dog itself. I think you should watch the family very carefully, if there aren´t any more cases in the nearer relatives it is enough to keep only the dog out. But this means too that there is a problem with breeding dogs very early or very often. They might have a lot of offspring that has bred too before you get the first case. regards Ina |
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04-02-2004, 03:38 | #10 |
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hi, on the subject of epilepsy, i know of two dogs in uk, one a labrador the other a collie, both started taking fits at about 14mths of age, the vets treated the dogs for epilepsy, the owners of the labrador got second oppinion from another vet, there dog was not epileptic but suffered from
HYPOGLYCEMIA where the sugar level in blood gets low, this can cause the dog to go into a fit & to have seizures, so it may be worth having second oppinion on the dogs, there is usful web site you my like to read & find out more on this www.vetinfo.com/dhypogly.html best regards paul winder |
31-03-2006, 22:01 | #11 |
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DNA tests - epilepsy
UPDATED MARCH 2006: Dr. Yuri F. Melekhovets, Laboratory Director of HealthGene Corp., Toronto, Canada, has announced that his group has located the gene responsible for producing inherited epilepsy in canines. HealthGene Corporation is the largest private veterinary DNA diagnostic and research laboratory in Canada. DNA-based testing for animal infectious and genetic diseases. HealthGene now is studying the various mutations that produce different forms of epilepsy in different breeds. Dr. Melekhovets requests that owners of dogs with epilepsy submit blood samples to further that research. Samples should come from dogs which have been medically diagnosed with epilepsy or have had symptoms of epilepsy for at least two years. Two vials of blood samples per dog should be sent in lavender topped tubes, together with a pedigree and brief health history (whether it has seizures, when they started, whether they are mild or severe, and what type of diagnostics have been performed). Send the samples by FedEx, using HealthGene's account number (#23836813, using FedEx's International Air Waybill with the following information for "Shipment Information":
a) Commodity description: "Canine Blood Samples for DNA Testing"; b) Total Declared Value for Customs is $1.00; c) international first; and d) 3 copies commercial invoice. Send the vials to this address: HealthGene Laboratory, 2175 Keele Street, Toronto, Ontario M6M 3Z4 Canada. Dr. Melekhovets may be contacted at: telephone: 905-669-5399; fax: 905-669-2235; email: dr.melekhovets @ healthgene.com (without the spaces) http://www.healthgene.com/ |
01-04-2006, 02:25 | #12 |
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Epilepsy
All my research tells me that wolves are healthier than domestic dogs. As such, if true, why would wolfdogs health and more pointedly epilepsy be more prevalent. Or is it an abberation?
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19-04-2006, 23:49 | #13 |
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Actually -
Concerning epilepsy I do believe that it is a rare condition for CSVs - but certainly not something which is unknown (I have heard of a couple of cases) if a test is available for the gene which causes inherited epilepsy and IF the CSVs which suffer from epilepsy actually carry the gene (there could be other reasons for the epilepsy - it does not have to be hereditary) then as a breeder I would certainly be interested in knowing this to prevent crossing two CSVs which are carriers of the epilepsy gene and which could therefore potentially produce epileptic pups. One thing that is important to understand is that for this test (or indeed any other test) to have any real value for the CSV community it needs to be performed on a significant proportion of CSVs - it is no good my knowing what the result of my dogs epilepsy assays are when I have no idea what the situation in other dogs may be like. I might have some information on hand (ie my dogs results from the genetic assay) but unless I can compare them to other peoples results in for the same assay I cannot possibly use that information to make an informed decision at the time of mating. |
07-11-2008, 19:07 | #14 |
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At the moment on the Dutch forum this is a Hot topic , and now I heard off several diffrent cases off Epilepsy in the breed of CSW .
I really start to wonder how big is the problem Epilepsy in the breed of the CSW ?? Or is it just as everything else in this breed just a unlucky case on itself. Hope somebody can give me a honest answer. Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
07-11-2008, 19:27 | #15 |
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Yes, epilepsy is in this breed too. But I know personally only a few dogs in Czech republic (less than is of fingers on one hand)with it.
Important is, don´t breed dogs with this illnes.....It is always the same: in every country breeders need club with working breedcomission |
07-11-2008, 20:01 | #16 | |
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Hopefully someday, but then for whole Europe . But you say, only the dog you must shut out of breeding ?? And every site you find on the internet about epilepsy they say shut out the whole line . But how you do this in the breed off CSW ?? And if there are just a few in CZ and a few in Holland, how much shall it be in whole of Europe ?? The more I know about epilepsy the more cloudy it gets for me . Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
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09-11-2008, 14:38 | #17 | |
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And we have pretty good overview over the populatins in Czech Republic, Gemany, Poland and Slovakia... So the Holland case is really an exception - there are more registered cases of epilepsy in Holland than in ALL other countries together. The next problem is - in NL you have dogs imported from different countries, different cases - it means different lines, different genetics BUT ALWAYS the same problem... So my suggestion is: don't you think in can not be the problem of CzW or genetic reasons for the illness but the problem can be is the country...? I mean it really - maybe there is something what make the country different and what do not 'aapear' in other - what can be the reason for such big amount of epilepsy cases..? There are different reasons for epilepsy - look on them: Root Cause Of Seizures In Dogs * Brain Tumors * Genetic Factors * Head Trama * Hereditary Factors * Infection, Cysts and Cancer * Lead, Chemicals, Additives and Poisoning * Liver Disease * Low Blood Sugar * Renal Kidney Failure * Severe Worm Infestation * Vaccinations * Vitamin Deficiencies Other Factors That May Trigger A Seizure In Dogs * Abuse or neglect * Air fresheners * All toxic flea products * BHA - a preservative commonly found in dog foods * BHT- a preservative commonly found in dog foods * Carpet powders * Cell Phones * Cigarette smoke * Dryer sheets * Dust * Eating cat or dog feces * Ethoxyquin- a preservative commonly found in dog foods * Excessive exercise * Fabric softeners * Fumes from all bathroom cleaners * Fumes from bleach * Fumes from dusting products * Fungi, Bacteria and Germs * Hair spray * Heartworm Pills * Household cleaners, including pine cleaners * Loud noises * Low quality canned dog food * Low quality commercial dog biscuits and treats * Low quality dry dog food * Lyme Encephalitis * Lyme Vaccine * Mold * Overheating * Paint chips from lead based paint * Paint fumes * Plastic bowls * Rabies Vaccine * Rawhides * Red food dye- a preservative commonly found in dog foods * Salt, Sugar, Aspartame, Monosodium Glutamate * Scented candles * Sodium Nitrate * Stress * Toxic flea collars * Toxic shampoos and dips * Vaccinations * Vitamins with high sodium level So it would be enough when the vets use specific kind of vaccine or the food producers (some factories produce dog food for differeent companies so you can find the same problem in different kinds of dog food (different labels)) produce food what cause sometimes seizures by some dogs.... It is just a suggestion because if there are more dogs with epilepsy in Holland than in any other country it can be something from this list or... Dutch owners have really bad luck while choosing the puppies... |
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09-11-2008, 15:30 | #18 | |
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I spoke over several or a few . And Hanka told there are also a few in CZ, so that is not so diffrent from Holland . And the other thing I spoke about, that it is a hot topic on the Dutch forum . Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . Last edited by loco; 09-11-2008 at 15:48. |
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09-11-2008, 15:46 | #19 | |
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away . |
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11-04-2010, 08:32 | #20 |
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Omega 3 supplementation may help your epileptic dog.
"Epilepsy Behav. 2009 Aug;15(4):527-8. Epub 2009 Jun 21. Positive impact of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in a dog with drug-resistant epilepsy: a case study. Scorza FA, Cavalheiro EA, Arida RM, Terra VC, Scorza CA, Ribeiro MO, Cysneiros RM. Disciplina de Neurologia Experimental, Universidade Federal de São Paulo/Escola Paulista de Medicina (UNIFESP/EPM), São Paulo, Brazil. [email protected] Abstract Epilepsy is the most common neurological disorder in both dogs and humans. Although the pharmacological options for treatment of epilepsies have increased, it has been reported that two-thirds of dogs with epilepsy are refractory to antiepileptic drug therapy. To our knowledge, there are no experimental studies in the literature that show an effect of omega-3 supplementation on epilepsy in dogs. Our case study describes the effectiveness of daily intake of a moderate amount of fish oil in a case of canine epilepsy."
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