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Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations....

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Old 24-11-2010, 16:53   #81
jasmine
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WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

Daiva........you posted your text to me...to my former post.
What kind of reaction did you expect???????

And the topic was starting with Gisu...and always come back to this dog...some of you didn't wrote the name just pionting...but we all know that you are talking about him !


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Old 24-11-2010, 16:57   #82
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???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????
o-o
my male usually does it... and never starts to fight first (or only in some cases when he must protect me or other "pack" members), but he is surely able to (it's checked ). does it mean that i own a pekinesse? and what is dominancy? desire to kill all moving around? somebody is wrong now...
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:58   #83
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Daiva........you posted your text to me...to my former post.
What kind of reaction did you expect???????

And the topic was starting with Gisu...and always come back to this dog...some of you didn't wrote the name just pionting...but we all know that you are talking about him !


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sory but for me not. Themat are ABOUT temperament and we speak about dogs, please not think about this: world not runn only about CW dogs.
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Old 24-11-2010, 17:01   #84
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yes...you are right...something is wrong.....
everybody sing theire own song

for me a well socialized , handable dog could behave in dogshow, could behave among another dogs, people.
And it doesn't mean that this kind of dogs don't fit to the standard!!!!

If you couldn't handle your dog's agressivity/dominancy it means not you are the pack leader.
That's simple.
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Old 24-11-2010, 17:10   #85
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...it all looks like some people try to turn serious faults into specialities
dog can be dominant, can be calm, can be active etc., but never must be shy or agressive. and this difference exists, sorry. dog must be handable and obidient. maybe some people lazy to train their dogs want to say that their dogs are just typical we all are different too with different temperaments, but we all are normal (i hope ). so there is a difference between individual characteristic and pathology and this is big mistake to mix it.
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Old 24-11-2010, 17:51   #86
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Obviouly I cannot make myself understandable.
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Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
Why for you a NORMAL dog is something wrong?!?!? Please READ IT ONE MORE TIME!!!

Margo: One more question: if you believe in your words why did you use Carr, Juri, Geri? All of them are "dominant" dogs (I personally call them "normal").
According to this what Edith wrote - a normal dog (for her) is dog which behaves like CASTRATE. Or Saarloos....
Juri, Carr and Geri are not like this. They are NORMAL dogs according the breed standard for CzW and according the norms given for normal dogs. But because of it they DO NOT FIT to Edith's expectations!
scientifically seen the term dominant is wrongly used at this place. As it was used to differ calm behaviour from the ideal character and to explain what is wrong of one special dog I tried and still try to varify.
To be honest I think the problems here occure because we are all talking here in a foreign language.
Obviously these dogs did fit Edits expectations like they did fit yours or both of you wouldn´t have used them.
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Sorry, but what you can not change is the reality. Everybody knows Juri or Carr and everybody knows Gisotsu or Yam, and they are TOTALLY different dogs.
That is my problem and the reason why I asked several times: I DON`T know both dogs, at least not in a way that I could judge them according to their behaviour.


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Sorry, but I do not understand your problem... I know Juri good enough. I like his character very much and he is typical male with stable character. Very friendly one. Like his father.
Why is it wrong according to you? Is is wrong that he do not act like dummy with low batteries?



Yes, I saw him may times. Also in private. I know that Jorg had no time to socialize him and it is sometimes still visible. But I also know his real character - really nice animal. And thanks to his active, friendly but still typical CzW characters his puppies won a lot of popularity, and many, many dog shows... They are really easy to handle.
I was ironic I don´t have a problem with both dogs, especially not with Juri.
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But you know - what I really dont like are the ettiquetes put on dogs without any reason... I remember the time when people called Grey Wolf a extremly agressive dog - ONLY because he was trained as watch dog (he was working as security dog). And what? His offsprings have great characters (look Farouk). Many called Carr and "agressive" dog because since he has female at home he started to be dominant against some males. And what? He is father of dogs which have one of the best characters by CzW. The same is with being shy - what is SHY dog? Shy dog is a dog which had GOOD socialization but still he is trying to escape. Believe me - you can have a Wolfdog with the most perfect character but iof you not not socilize it it will become "shy". Even is the genes are simply perfect....
Well, that is a general problem, many people talk a lot about many dogs but only very few can really judge behaviour, that again is why I asked and still got no answer.
We have close contact not only to Juri but to several dogs out of this litter all have an extremly good charakter but there are people that should have known better that called them hyperaktiv - the new fashionable term, used on every dog behaving just normal for a typical CSW. Giving clear signals they behave very well and - sorry - very calm on leash and perfectly normal according to the standard.

So if somebody tells me about horrible charakters of dogs I ask till I know why they think it is horrible and mostly my opinion is different.
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Old 24-11-2010, 18:00   #87
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Reading quick through posts it seems you all, breeders, make a strong link between a dog character and the way to breed it, like if character transmission was strong as suggested in J. Jedlička paper, but from the paper "The genetic contribution to canine personality" this is really not the case: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...5&postcount=47
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Old 24-11-2010, 18:59   #88
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Far away from being a pug....
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And slow and lazy like pekinesse
As Margo keeps insulting other breeds I want to say something from my little experiences...
I was allways a little worried about Brukne's behavior - she never shows any agressiveness towards people (unless they are agressive towards me, not her ), but she is really not too good with other females (except her sister Walmaj and Callisto z Peronowki ) and young males I used to think, that I've mist something in her education... BUT. When I started to create a TV show about dogs, I had a possibility to spend time with breeders of various breeds every week. Known breeders in Lithuania and other countries. Experienced ones. Believe me, that was a release! Pekinesses were trying to kiss me (10 of them at once), but after 5 minuts two males were trying to kill each other!!! Breeder had to make a good work to tear them apart! Chihuahua males - just the same! Breeder of Great Danes said "I can take a male and one of the females - females can not be kept together in one car or outside!) White swiss shepherds - females live apart from each other in one home My friend, breeding German shepherds, said "oh my female just bite my face" as this is a totally normal thing And many other examples
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Old 24-11-2010, 19:30   #89
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Originally Posted by Vaiva View Post
As Margo keeps insulting other breeds
Take is as: or or

I love also other breeds. I LOVE pugs - I have always a lot of fun with them... I like them since one of them terrorized Bolton - I never met such "insolent" young lady... I love GSD - I had them for years and they still own part of my heart. I love malinois - if I would not have CzW I would own one of them... I like pekinese - I owned a peke-mix many years ago. HE was a dominant dog - more dominant than caucasian ovtscharka owned by my friends...
There are many really great breeds.... But there is always something what gives the reason to "insult" them.... (even if it works in both sides )
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Old 24-11-2010, 19:38   #90
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I was allways a little worried about Brukne's behavior - she never shows any agressiveness towards people (unless they are agressive towards me, not her ), but she is really not too good with other females (except her sister Walmaj and Callisto z Peronowki ) and young males I used to think, that I've mist something in her education... BUT. When I started to create a TV show about dogs, I had a possibility to spend time with breeders of various breeds every week. Known breeders in Lithuania and other countries. Experienced ones. Believe me, that was a release! Pekinesses were trying to kiss me (10 of them at once), but after 5 minuts two males were trying to kill each other!!! Breeder had to make a good work to tear them apart! Chihuahua males - just the same! Breeder of Great Danes said "I can take a male and one of the females - females can not be kept together in one car or outside!) White swiss shepherds - females live apart from each other in one home My friend, breeding German shepherds, said "oh my female just bite my face" as this is a totally normal thing And many other examples
Exactly!! Not a long time ago there was a pretty famous case of two yorkshire females which killed a miniature poodle female...

But it is nothing - now the "top" breeds in PL are yorkshire terriers... You really can not imagine how many people come to our kennel club asking for advice because the yorks are terrorizing their families: bitting children, guests or attacking other dogs... The most agressive dogs which I meet on dog shows are... labradors... It is much more "dangerous" by their ring than by amstaffs...
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:12   #91
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Originally Posted by Jasmine
ohhhhh so where were the eyes' of the judges when put him in the firts place several times...several times!!!!
In the same place as when they started to give preferences to Bulldogs without nose which today are unable to walk over one quarter without faint, to German Shepherds with over angulation and serious top line problems which today moves like a frog in the ring, to Brazilian Mastiffs with atipical character which today fear people instead of be a good guardian dog, and all that because them it looks nicer and that's why right.

After "Pedigree dogs" I think every breeder should think twice before try to use the dogshow titles as merit and proof of quality because now lay people also got informed about what's happening at the dogshows.

For CzW it's even more sad, because often what the judges are seeking for and considering as correct is completly different of what the standard ask for.

It's unbelievable that there are still breeders which give value to show titles and even select their studs taking the titles as basis.
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:24   #92
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For CzW it's even more sad, because often what the judges are seeking for and considering as correct is completly different of what the standard ask for.
One of the most winning wolfdogs in the last time in PL is a brown german shepherd - totally overangulated male is VERY sloping top line, moving like GSD from show line. He is very titled dog who won a lot not only in our country...

At the same dog shows typical CzWs get descriptions: dog with "too long legs", "not enough angulated" with "too short tails"... And of course with too small chest....

If the CzW breeders would pay attention to the shows results the CzW would already share the fate of Germans Shepherds which changed from such dogs:



to such .... dogs(?)

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Old 24-11-2010, 21:24   #93
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For CzW it's even more sad, because often what the judges are seeking for and considering as correct is completly different of what the standard ask for.
And the sadest thing is when they like the "wolfish" character I've heard some very experienced cynologists saying, that YES, it is normal for CzW to be afraid of people
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:25   #94
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In the same place as when they started to give preferences to Bulldogs without nose which today are unable to walk over one quarter without faint, to German Shepherds with over angulation and serious top line problems which today moves like a frog in the ring, to Brazilian Mastiffs with atipical character which today fear people instead of be a good guardian dog, and all that because them it looks nicer and that's why right.

After "Pedigree dogs" I think every breeder should think twice before try to use the dogshow titles as merit and proof of quality because now lay people also got informed about what's happening at the dogshows.

For CzW it's even more sad, because often what the judges are seeking for and considering as correct is completly different of what the standard ask for.

It's unbelievable that there are still breeders which give value to show titles and even select their studs taking the titles as basis.
Agree, agree and agree This is a WORKING BREED NOT A SHOW BREED !!!

Best regards / Mikael
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:36   #95
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I like GSD like this one >>> http://www.ruffgsd.com/Images/Puppie...306/ester2.jpg

This one is from Czech Republic line... Maybee there is still some hope for the GSD breed after all ?

Best regards / M
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:44   #96
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I like GSD like this one >>> http://www.ruffgsd.com/Images/Puppie...306/ester2.jpg

This one is from Czech Republic line... Maybee there is still some hope for the GSD breed after all ?

Best regards / M
hmm and this have moore strong angulation like new GSD. I know old GSD type dogs with normal angulation and temperament and charakter... cuute



this are slovak dogs, who work in policie and others systems.
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:45   #97
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nice malinois As I repeat from time to time that breed creators made big mistake when the use gsd no malinois
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Old 24-11-2010, 21:49   #98
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nice malinois As I repeat from time to time that breed creators made big mistake when the use gsd no malinois
i think this are.... old GSD not malinois
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Old 24-11-2010, 22:31   #99
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I understand about GSD, but to be fair, most of the dogs here that are 'liked' are also not stacked 'properly' as a show form.

Of course when one takes show-GSD in stack and compares to old-style GSD in normal stance, the difference looks like a different breed.

Take the old-style GSD and put that one in a show stack.. it'll still be different but similarities will be there.
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Old 24-11-2010, 22:35   #100
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very good short video

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