Puppy prices (not only in UK)

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mutt

Hi everyone.
I was only asking a civil question, and a question that any reasonable person would enquire about out of common sense. We are not looking to cause friction with anyone either here in the Uk, or on the continent. We simply want to make certain that we make the right moves, and start off on the right foot. We didn't dismiss the sum of £2000, but thought it sensible to make an effort to get information and therefore establish a proper starting point. My husband and I and the kids will give a CzW a loving home, and if £2000 is the price, we will pay it once we are satisfied the pup is well, and has been appropriately reared. We live in the middle of Argyllshire on a 20 acer small plot.
We understand that importing would be expensive and time consuming, and on top of that it is harder to maintain contact with people who are in different countries.

Karin and Donald

hi i did work my price out very conservitaly & it is a lot less than importing a pup, there are lots of breeders in europe but you need to get one to rear your pup till 10 mths so it cancome to uk i wish you the best of luck regards paul winder

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi i did work my price out very conservitaly & it is a lot less than importing a pup, there are lots of breeders in europe but you need to get one to rear your pup till 10 mths so it cancome to uk i wish you the best of luck regards paul winder

Hi everybody,
am in this case strictly. We (webmasters) hear very often from some people the critique about puppies prices.
Please, dont forget, that its absolutely freedom of breeder, which prices setting. When have no problems and selling the puppies for this prices, then is everything OK. Most problematic is the other extreme, when "breeder" selling the puppy for very very low prices or give free of charge (yes, such cases we just know). Its a signal, that something is not OK. But high price, I mean, is OK.
I would like to quote one czech breeder. When call him somebody, who interested about his puppy and hear the price, then answer, that its too high, because he get a offer from other breeder and price was lower. Reaction of breeder was absolutelly excellent :
"Why you then call me ? You must call to the other breeder. I valuate my puppies so high. If for the other breeder have own puppies low value, its his privat problem.".

Howg

Pavel

PS : And little notice on the end. Nobody, who dont breeding ever, knows the costs with it. Before the critique try to counting shortly all possible costs with not puppies only but e.g. announcement, shows and training (its a best announcement) etc. Really seriously breeder, who care 100% about own dogs cant never makes a profit by breeding.

[Conor]

Hi everybody. Now we have it from Pavel, and I understand that he knows is stuff, so hopefully we can lay this argument to rest. I am visiting Paul and Mandy tomorrow to collect my pup. I can't describe the feeling of exhiliration I have now at 7.15pm. Everyone I have metioned him to is waiting to see him with anticipation. This guy is going to be a star in my town, and I know that with Paul and Mandys continued support, he's going to promote this new breed in the UK in the noblest of fashions.

I already know he is money well spent!

Conor

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Conor

and I know that with Paul and Mandys continued support, he's going to promote this new breed in the UK in the noblest of fashions.

we hope that this breed will become more popular and diffuse in your country, so you english people in the future will no more pay 3 or 4 times the price than the rest of Europe.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Navarre

we hope that this breed will become more popular and diffuse in your country, so you english people in the future will no more pay 3 or 4 times the price than the rest of Europe.

HI i will ask you on line i want puppy from you, i need it to stay with you till it is 10mths old, you need to get its vaccinations, rabies blood tests, export pedigree & all paperwork, feed , keep & socilise this dog till it is 10mths then it gets pass port to come to uk. can you work out your price for this & let us all know on wolfdog.org ??? can you also explain why i should sell very rare breed of dog in uk for same price as common dog that is easy to get. please can i also remind everyone vet, feeding, & rareing puppies is three times the price in uk than anywhere in europe your in anticapation mr p winder

[gaulirmorn]

Hi Paul,

I too await the response to your above question with interest. Only last night, I spoke to my mother regarding the Saarloos bitch that I hope you will bless me with in the future. Mum was amazed at the ‘excellent price’ (her words) that you were quoting for these puppies. (Obviously, as yet the Saarloos price is to be arranged, but I am expecting to pay around the same as for the Czechs).

My mother and I were discussing the issues raised on this site regarding costs, and the fact that the ONLY other option available to wanna-be owners is importation. We have no idea how much the actual fees would be in total, but we KNOW that the breakdown of importation cost is a whole lot more than what is being asked by Pacino. Unfortunately, people fail to see that the ‘cost’ equals both the finance AND time scale involved!

Firstly, you are probably going to find your breeder on mainland Europe, so you have a number of places to search. France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, ‘the world’s your oyster’ so long as you can get around the language barrier. And how many breeders will be willing to raise your animal for you for the first 10 months of its life? It’s asking quite a lot, especially considering that you might back out of the sale or be blocked by bureaucracy before you can import the animal.

Once you have selected your breeder you’ll have to pay them a visit, or two… Actually, we reckon that you would have to visit the breeder a minimum of three times; once to vet them; second to choose the puppy and third to collect him/her. And it always pays to have a good working relationship with your breeder, so even MORE visits would be advisable.

So, you’ve found and visited your breeder and you’re quite happy with him/her, and now you’re playing the waiting game. Waiting for the bitch to come into season, waiting to see if a mating will take place, waiting to see if the mating has been successful. Waiting for the whelping, the birth, to pick a puppy.

And what happens if you want a bitch and the mother only has three dogs? Then you have to wait for another bitch to come into season, or maybe the same bitch (which could be twelve months or more), you might even be forced to find another breeder!

Okay, so now you’ve got your prize! You have to take into consideration that this breeder is rearing your puppy for the first 10 months of it’s life you will have little or no imput into it’s upbringing. However, you WILL be expected to compensate the breeder for all the costs involved in the upkeep and training of the animal. Over 10 months that’s going to add up considerably!

Then there are vets bills, what happens if your animal has a medical problem that needs sorting out. Nothing serious enough to affect the purchase of the animal, but enough to affect your wallet…

At some stage your pride and joy will be ready to join you in the UK, but before then you’ll need to sort out the pet passport, which includes having to comply to certain specifics, jabs, chips, blood tests, etc. How much will this dent your pocket?

I suppose in the general scheme, these will be tiny amounts when you compare them to what has ALREADY been racked up! Then there’s the application for the pet passport. All that form filling and red tape. What happens if your animal fails the screening for whatever reason? More payment to the breeder for continuing to look after the animal for you, and that’s providing they are willing and able to do so!

Then there is the distress caused to the animal during the hand-over and importation period. Everything that he/she had come to accept and depend upon over the past 10 months is suddenly snatched away…
He/she has new owners, with quirky mannerisms, and strange smells. The new surroundings are intimidating and frightening.
Sounds and scents are unfamiliar, there’s a change of diet and the walks are shorter, noisier and at the wrong times!
The animal wants to flee, to return to ‘the norm’.
Do you have the expertise and understanding to be able to nurture the dog through this difficult time, and succeed?

I’m sure there are other matters that I have forgotten about, or do not even know of, but the point is that is would be a FAR greater drain on your time and money to import than paying the Pacino fee! My mum and I reckon it would cost you somewhere in the region of £8000 and about 2 years to import a wolfdog from Europe, and the animal’s welfare is paramount!

So in the general theme of things, I’ll be more than happy to hand the Winders my £2000 in return for my eight week old Saarloos, safe in the knowledge that I’ve saved my puppy distress, and myself time AND money!

Gaulirmorn

[Navarre]

to mr. Pacino & Gaulirmon

sorry for my bad english, I did not want to offend noone. I know that ther are silly law in your country to import dogs (and even come for tourism with dogs)...10 months are the minimum age to importa a dog ?

however my wish is that when the CSW will be a more diffuse breed in your country, with many breeders and owners, the price of a puppy will be lower, because you haven't to import puppy from outside.

so no more import-costs, but only the costs of every other breeder.

simply !

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Please, dont forget, that its absolutely freedom of breeder, which prices setting. When have no problems and selling the puppies for this prices, then is everything OK.

That's right. It is typical not only for Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs but for almost every breed: the price is saying nothing about the quality of puppies. It is just a number dictated by the breeder and depenting on many other things.
Some breeders will count everything: all costs connected with the litter and on this basis they calculate the price, and sometimes you will find very poor quality puppies for a very high price.
Some breeders them set the price on other basis. And you can buy very promissing puppies for a normal price.

It's as Pavel wrote - if a breeder is really good, if he is doing a lot for the dogs and for the breed: if he is importing the best lines, showing the dogs, working with them, if he choose the best stud dogs for his females, he will never be able to make profit. Just small example - some breeders from West Europe visit the summer camps in origin countries, some of them make the bonitations there. Should they add the costs of accommodation to the costs of the litter? It would make the prices horrible expensive.

So the truth is - the price is just simple number. I heard about breeders of Golden Retrievers (now I forgot but I think they live in Holland). They have one of the best kennels and also one of the most famous one. But they are selling the puppies for a low prices (attainable for everyone). But there is something else: not everyone can buy/get a puppy from them (even if you will offer some thousands of EUR). If you want a puppy you must offer something more than just a money and a "good home" and they must like you...

And I think it makes sense. Now I really unterstand their strategy. It applies also for Wolfdogs - if you have a lot of costs you will never be able to cover them selling the puppies. Because you will never be able to find 6-12 good owners if you ask the price 1500-2000 Eur or more... at least not in Europe. So you will have to sell them for a normal price. And in this case in really doesn't matter of you ask 200-300 EUR more or less. You always incur a loos and it doesn't matter if your loss will be higher by ~1000 EURo...

Originally Posted by Pavel

Most problematic is the other extreme, when "breeder" selling the puppy for very very low prices or give free of charge (yes, such cases we just know). Its a signal, that something is not OK. But high price, I mean, is OK.

I think both cases are OK. If someone want to give his puppies for free? Why not? Only one thing is important: that the puppies will go to good homes; to responsible owners.

You mention the case with the puppies for free. I think it is the best example that the high price really doesn't matter; it doesn't help with anything. That it has nothing to do with selecting a good owner: three of those puppies went to Poland. One was buyied for a normal price. Two of them were given away for free. The last two puppies found great homes. You can meet them on meetings, dog shows, a.s.o. The puppy, which has been buyied was sold later to nowhere...

===================================
But back to the UK....

Susanna & Gianluca are right - the prices in Europe are much lower and there is no problem to get a very promissing puppy for 500-600 EUR in East Europe, or for 900-1000 EUR in West Europe. (I specially don't write "from Champion parents" because sometimes such puppies has really nothing to do with "promissing puppies" ).
But on the other hand the price asked by Paul and Mandy (£2000) is nothing special in UK.

Everyone who want to choose the first solution have to find a breeder who will be ready for keeping the puppy 10 months long. Who will be ready to make all these paperwork. And don't forget: 10 months is a very long time for a CzW. After all you will get an young dog who will not feel as a member of your pack...

...or...

...you can pay more a get a puppy from Paul. In this case you don't need to care for anything: you will get good sozialized puppy which you can bring up as you want.

I really don't understand the whole quarrel about the prices. If you don't want to overcome all problems connected with importing the puppy you can buy the puppy from Paul. The result will be: there will be another (good) owner in UK.
If you think £2000 is to much you can import a puppy from Europe. The result will be: there will be new blood imported to UK.
In both cases the english CzW population will profit from it....

[Conor]

Hi

I picked my pup up on Saturday 31st January from Paul and Mandy. I wouldn't swap enjoying him now and watching him learn and play for a dog offered to me for a tenth of the price. He settled in less than 24 hours, has adjusted brilliantly, and it seems evident to me that I owe that to Paul, Mandy, Lynx and Cornelia. To put a CzW through the trauma of relocating after ten months in a secure environment wouldn't enter my mind, and I imagine it would end up costing more than I have paid for my dog quite easily. I have paid what I think is a fair price, and for that I have got a content, happy young pup, who can learn my ways at the best time for him to do so without undue stress - up until his 12th week.

The thought of unsettling a dog at 10 months of age, making him unhappy, and risking never having him feel secure as he needs to, makes the relative financial saving (which is probably not there) trivial. I have the dog I wanted, he is as I expected, and I am not anticpating any major probems. Any finacial savings that may be made, will be lost in the psychological debt that a dog moved hundreds of miles to a new, strange anf frightening environment would accrue. It is, in my opinion, supposed to be about the welfare of the animals, not scrimping to save a few quid.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Conor

The thought of unsettling a dog at 10 months of age, making him unhappy, and risking never having him feel secure as he needs to

That's true. But the problem is: if you want to expand the breeding of CzW in UK you have to import more dogs. Much more....
But the stupid law makes it problematic and...cruel to the dogs...

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Margo

That's true. But the problem is: if you want to expand the breeding of CzW in UK you have to import more dogs. Much more....
But the stupid law makes it problematic and...cruel to the dogs...

hi Margo, all my new owner of the puppies will put there dogs on passports when old enough to breed they can then return to suitable dogs in europe to be mated & return to have puppies in uk, i already have a male dog coming to uk, plus two more bitchs, i said 5 yrs ago i will establish the breed in uk , & i will do this, i have had long battle in uk with the czechs but i phoned the kennel club today & my puppies are all now on the working & obedience register, BIG STEP FOR THE BREED IN UK, I hope to have them on import register later this year, then to be reconised breed in uk, lots more work to do but i am getting there, regards paul

[Conor]

That's true. But the problem is: if you want to expand the breeding of CzW in UK you have to import more dogs. Much more....
But the stupid law makes it problematic and...cruel to the dogs...

I agree with what you say totally. It is going to be of the utmost importance to bring new blood into the Uk in order to ba able to establish the breed. The issue here though will be timing, and as Paul said in his last posting, we will be able to take our dogs into Europe for the purpose of breeding. We will be needing dogs also from totally unrelated blood lines, and yes that may well mean encountering the red tape and time delays that are of potential detriment to the dogs themselves. If we are able to cooperate, we should be able to keep the stress to the dogs to a minimum, and to as few a number of dogs as possible. It's going to be an exciting time for the CzW in the near future in the UK, and abroad. We need to work together (as I am sure we will) to get it as near right as is possible.

Conor

[Mosi]

I guess im one of the youngest here, I hope that by the time I finish college that I can purchase one. You Uk guys have done so much work from the breed, boy you have so much respect from me. My parents seem to like both Swh and Cwd, so maybe I can still twist there arms lol! I spend so much time looking at photos... drawing them... dreaming. Its definatly a dream to own one.
And thanks to you uk breeders/importers my dream can come true because of the effort you have put in. Plus the price, its not bad at all considering I couldnt buy a good ragdoll cat for that :P!
Thank you

[gaulirmorn]

Hi everyone,

Glad to hear that your bundle of joy has settled in so well, Conor. What have you named him? Please, please, please keep us informed on your pup's growth, I'm sure we will all find it both fascinating and informative! It will certainly give us some idea of the fun we future owners have to look forward to...

Great news for Pacino, Paul!
Congratulations on ALL your hard work; getting this far with the KC is a major feat! It's an immense boost to all CWS lovers in the UK and gives us real hope for the future of this breed in Great Britain!

I found it fascinating to read about the other CWS you have plans to import into the UK this year. As you know from our previous conversations, I am looking forward to homing one of your Saarloos bitch puppies in the future.

Can I please ask you what's happening on the Saarloos breeding scheme front; what animals are you hoping to import for this breed? I know you said a while ago that you were working on a pet passport for an adult Saarloos bitch. Do you still plan to import her later this year, and do you intend that she will be carrying a litter when you bring her to the UK?

All the best
Gaulirmorn

[Conor]

Mosi wrote

Its definatly a dream to own one.

keep working at it Mosi, you are not too young to start planning, and believe me, these dogs are very special and different in both look, behaviour, and the depth of bond that develops almost immediately. I have alot to learn, and it is my intention to write an article in a few weeks with my observations. Hopefully I will be able to provide some information that will be of use to prospective owners of CzW and Sarloos. They are genuinely unlike anyother dog I have ever owned. My dogs temperamrent is rock solid - he is not fearful of anyhing - traffic, very loud noises, people, wheelchairs, children, other dogs. They are amazing, and inspiring. I would lke another in time, now that my appetite is whetted!

I have called him Hektor, a name which I think suits him. He is the largest of Lynx's litter, weighing 7.5kg at just less than 8 weeks of age. He is beautifully marked, and is bright, curious, playful and a wonder to watch. He is also a star in the town I live in already... he loves the attention. He already knws the way to my parents, and is very comfortable in their company, and with their Jack Russel who is a little possessive, though it doesn't cause hektor any stress.

I will be putting some photos of him on here before long, and Paul Winder has asked me to be chairman of the CzW UK owners club. When we start to get that off the ground (we can't be officiated by the KC yet, but we can make a start now), I will be setting up a web site, and hopefully we will have our own point of reference for current and prospective owners. It's an exciting time, for a wonderful breed of dog. Anyone wanting to get involved or to be kept up to date can send me a PM. I will be contacting the owbers of Lynx's pups in a few days to see if we can get the ball rolling!

Conor

[foxy]

your e mail was tackless and costly for you one word of advise think before you speak from the proud owner of two lynx puppies.

[DID]

Hello,

I live in Belgium and I bought a CLT in June 2003. You can see my dog on the site : she's called CALIX DE NEW FLAME. I paid 800 euro for her.

Bye

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by DID

Hello,

I live in Belgium and I bought a CLT in June 2003. You can see my dog on the site : she's called CALIX DE NEW FLAME. I paid 800 euro for her.

Bye

hi this is very good price for dog in belgium, as there are not many breeders there, the price we are talkinhg about is importing to the uk under pet passport, regards paul

[JacobH]

hi Margo, all my new owner of the puppies will put there dogs on passports when old enough to breed they can then return to suitable dogs in europe to be mated & return to have puppies in uk, i already have a male dog coming to uk, plus two more bitchs, i said 5 yrs ago i will establish the breed in uk , & i will do this, i have had long battle in uk with the czechs but i phoned the kennel club today & my puppies are all now on the working & obedience register, BIG STEP FOR THE BREED IN UK, I hope to have them on import register later this year, then to be reconised breed in uk, lots more work to do but i am getting there, regards paul

Paul, just want to say to you that i admire yours and Mandys dedication and all the hard work you are putting down on this breed. Hopefully I will be able to d the same in Sweden some day.
Regards
Jacob

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by JacobH

Paul, just want to say to you that i admire yours and Mandys dedication and all the hard work you are putting down on this breed. Hopefully I will be able to d the same in Sweden some day.
Regards
Jacob

hi jacob h if you need any help getting czech to sweden you can contact us by email to uk you can also contact corrie in france we will help you in any way we can & give you support with the breed best regards paul mandy corrie........