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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters.... |
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16-03-2002, 01:14 | #1 |
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Crossing breeds - Saarloos Wolfdog X Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
We have a young breed, we need to fix it in the future, selecting subject according to standard and working abilities... Do we really need to cross Saarloos and CsV today?
I (we) suspected such an illegal manipulation when looking some so-called CsV on dogs shows here in France... I'm really anxious to see pictures and to read article on this subject in the future... And what about a suspected CsV 'specialist/owner/breeder'? Philippe |
16-03-2002, 08:56 | #2 | ||||
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Crossing breeds
Hi,
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Pavel |
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16-03-2002, 12:40 | #3 | |
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Crossing breeds
Hi,
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as a specialist of the breed, become a judge in a country without sufficient background????? Could you imagine the disaster for future CsV generations? Some concerned countries don't have a real owner club, despite a breed club grouping East breeds, no association able to forward informations Philippe |
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16-03-2002, 16:09 | #4 | |||
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Crossing breeds
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for CsW in CZ, you must get a agreement from our club. And you dont get it, if you dont show a knowledges and "background". By by us isnt all absolutely OK, because I speak now about judges, they have a linence for specific races. Acoording stupid FCI rules. if you have more, than 5 breeds licence in one FCI group(or 7 ? I dont know exactly number), you can get licence for whole FCI group without get the special licence for other races in group. And if you have licence for more, that 2 FCI groups (same like by races in group, I dont know sure if 2, 3 or 4), then you can get the "allround" licence. Its mean licence for all FCI races. Quote:
isnt club, which have a strictly breeding rules is the situation little bit danger in this sense. Quote:
pages. We would be very happy, if somebody from our visitors (not webmasters) write something about it and can put this name there. Then we publish it like his opinion and his suspicion. I hope, that I wrote it just now enought openly, taht everybody understand. Pavel |
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16-03-2002, 17:42 | #5 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Borssele
Posts: 426
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Crossing breeds
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read all the lists and pages knows who breeds right or wrong.There always be people that want to do it on there own way and do it out of the rules. It's the same with the SWH,the only thing we can do is,speak and write with each other and try to do it better. Christa |
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17-03-2002, 09:41 | #6 | |
Junior Member
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Crossing breeds
Hello, Philippe.
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imagine some ways, when future of this breed will not be so good in our country. By FCI rules judge with some licenses in one group can get license for whole group, and we have lots of such judges, who are specialists in different kinds of shepherds. You know, that standard of CSV differs from any shepherd standard very much. Can you imagine, how will they judge CSV? I meet tens of GSD and other shepherds owners, and they usually says: "What a wonderful color! But why he have such high hip and pasterns turned out? Is he ill?" And situation with judgement can be the same (we didn't visit any dog shows yet, but this situation is possible). Maybe, it's usual practice for other countries too, but in Russia there is stupid "tradition" to make new breeds for "local requirements" (results - "black terrier" - based on Risenshnautzer , "Moscow guarding dog" - based on Bernardine and Caucasian shepherd). In past, it was from army and police kennels, but now there is lots of private kennels with license, where can work any brainless people... And some people in future can follow this way with CSV - breeding by shepherd standards and without proper control of behavior and such things (like with some "fighting dogs" - pitbull, some Maloss dogs...) -- Kirill |
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22-10-2006, 22:43 | #7 | ||
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Saarloos Wolfdog X Czechoslovakian Wolfdog -> translation of the french topic
I have been obliged to withdraw the image, which is subject to copyright, as the holder of the copyright has requested it be withdraw.
However, as there is an interest in the topic, I have transcribed below the text cited (including all the mistakes therein). J. Quote:
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Ok, the translation wasn't the "best" but is understandeable. Paula |
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22-10-2006, 23:00 | #8 | |||
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This is the better reason for close the origin book at the "initial title" because these cross CzW X SwD is renewed more and more. Quote:
Here the link that have the anounce Quote:
One comfirmation at the initial title of one of these dogs would sow a disorder, not? |
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22-10-2006, 23:07 | #9 |
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If someone that have one best french ( the mine is poor) and have time to translate... please help
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22-10-2006, 23:15 | #10 | |
Junior Member
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Translation
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23-10-2006, 12:44 | #11 |
Senior Member
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And who is "breeder" ?? Thanks for translation.
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17-11-2006, 21:20 | #12 |
REJPAL
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 226
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What's problem with crossing CsW and SAV - puppies haven't pedigree. .... Why do you ask who is the breeder ? It's nearly the same crossing CsW and GSH in Czech -puppies haven't pedigree.
Eva |
19-11-2006, 21:15 | #13 | |||
Senior Member
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hi
effectively puppy's haven't pedigre but they should be accept on initial tilte have you same probleme in your country ? because in france many people search femal for do it puppy's only for money with Swiss white shepherd or malinois or orther sort of dog it's a small % but it's the reality the money is the king all over the earth Quote:
it's not a breeders only some one who want's money but the problem is that one mixture two races well I distinguish suppose that the problem must be also existing in the countries origin of the race how managed to you that on a plan of the protection of the Czechoslovakian wolfhound ? Quote:
can you say if the deliver origins is open in your country ?
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amitiées tchequelouquienne http://texwolf.free.fr www.amicale-chien-loup-tchecoslovaque.com une vrai passion pour une belle race ! signé fabrice tout simplement passionné....... et c'est deja ça |
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19-11-2006, 22:05 | #14 |
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Here alone dogs with pedigree, come from one cadastrated breeder can have the pedigree, for who have a pure dog without pedigree can make pass for one avaliation maked by 3 different judges, if the dog is pure and in the standard it will receive one other tipe of "pedigree" call CPR ( cetificate of pure breed) that not have the name of the parents and have a different color, if this CPR dog make 5 generations pure dogs an in-standard animals the line of this dog will be consider pure, the pupies of the 6 generation will receive the pedigree.
With the FCI breeds this not cause any problems for the breed, but with the brazilian rare breeds not reconigsed by FCI, this cause a big problem because few judges know the standard of these new rare brazilian breeds and one mix breed pass easly as a pure dog, and receive the pedigree, can pass easly as a "new blood line" for the not well informed breeders. For the FCI breed all CPR dogs pass for one strong discrimination make for the other breeders that not accept the existence of the CPR ( 99% of the breeders not accept). For the brasilian breeds non-FCI, well, all will depend on the breeder that have "find" this new blooded animal, if is really a new blooded animal or alone a new false mix dog ( more common). Greetings Paula |
20-11-2006, 02:14 | #15 | |
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20-11-2006, 03:16 | #16 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Re: Utile? Legitim?any one? -> translation of the french
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20-11-2006, 12:20 | #17 | |
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in Czech Republic or Slovakia, the studbook is closed. No dog without pedigree would be signed-in and no dog without pedigree (or without bonitation) is allowed to breed. If the owners still breed on such dog, the puppies are not given pedigree and the owner is subject to disciplinary punishment from the CSW Club (if he is a member, of course). However, in CR at least, there exists something like "supporting register" at the studbook, where in case of need, a dog without pedigree could be signed-in. But the possibilities of using this dog in breeding would be subject to decision of the breeding commitee of the CSW Club, or probably even subject of the CSW club board, conference etc. In CR, breeding on dogs without pedigree is higly criticised and dissaproved by the responsible breeders (owners, judges, refferees, Club, Kynological Union etc.). Such action is considered only as "puppy producing" for profit and with no interest of the breed, it´s improving and wellness. Which is a reason why Hanka asks about the foolish crossing of CSW and Saarloos. |
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20-11-2006, 13:12 | #18 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bad Dürkheim
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In the German Kennel Club and as far as I am informed in the FCI there is the possibility to get dogs without pedigree registered by phenotype-simularity. The offspring won´t get normal pedigrees for several generations. The main positiv thing about it - and I think the reason for this regulation - is that you have the possibility to increase the genetic variability, on that way it is possible to get good dogs into breeding. The problem about it are dogs like the Saarloos-CSW-crosses. Though the crosses are a benefit for the Saarloos in my opinion they are a very bad thing for the CSW. There are two different types of PRA in the Saarloos breed, a genetic form of Epilepsy and a small brain degeneration. All those deseases are rezessiv what means they can spread quite a time before they start to make troubles, especially in countries without control of inherited eye deseases.
Actually I think in general it is a good thing to have the possibility to get good dogs without pedigrees into breeding, we don´t have so many good stud dogs at the moment. But in paticular it is a huge responsibility for the breeders to use this in a positiv way and I know of many cases where it has been misused not at least with the Mutara-Crosses. We are pretty sure that there are several Saarlooscrosses breeding as CSW at the moment what is the reason why I wouldn´t use some westerneuropean lines besides all other points. Ina |
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