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Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations....

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Old 24-11-2010, 13:55   #61
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Originally Posted by woland77 View Post
I know many dogs than working in IPO and are good family dogs, off course they are most dificult than a Corgi, but they live in family with childreen, others dogs, others animal, no problem with people. From other breeds, and Czw too. I think than a breed, is a working breed, the caracter can't be change because many people want dog like a wolf, but don't want hard dog to keep. I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.
For me CzW must be like standard debscrition.
Amen.

I decided to have CzW also because of their character. If I would have Saarloos I would but Saarlooos. If I would like to have German Shepherd I would but grey "old style" GSD. If I would like to have sofa dog I would buy Vallhund....

I agree that times has changed - almost nobody makes IPO. But it doesnt mean we have to change the character of your dogs.

Sorry, but as a breeder I will not change character of this breed only because it will be easier to sell the puppies and it will be a chance to make better bussines. Yes - I agree - lazy, unactive dogs will be easier to handle, more people will be able to deal with them, there will be more buyers. But dogs are not "thing " which should be adjust to the market rules and expectations of the buyers.
NO - the character is something what must be stable. Because many for us love this dogs exactly because CzW are as they are...

Sorry, but if the first CzW which I get would be shy like Saarloos and lazy as Neapolitan Mastiff it would be my first and LAST Wolfdog which I get...
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Old 24-11-2010, 14:58   #62
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Originally Posted by Margo View Post
One more question: if you believe in your words why did you use Juri,
Sorry again, as I know Juri very well and you obviously find his character within the standard, he is not dominant, he is selfconfident and showing body signals of dominance in special situation towards other dogs.

And after a little bit of training and keeping rules he is absolutely no problem with other dogs but stays calm, does he now no longer fit the standard?
When he meets his mother or grandmother he is showing strong submissive behaviour is he now not within the standard anylonger?

Cäsar that you used for breeding did show no dominant behaviour at all and instead shy behaviour on several occasions, did you breed with a non-standard dog? Or did you get to know these dogs well enough to know that their behaviour was due to special situations?

And still, what is the problem with the special dog the discussion started about? How well do you know him?
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:08   #63
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Sorry again, as I know Juri very well and you obviously find his character within the standard, he is not dominant, he is selfconfident and showing body signals of dominance in special situation towards other dogs.

And after a little bit of training and keeping rules he is absolutely no problem with other dogs but stays calm, does he now no longer fit the standard?
When he meets his mother or grandmother he is showing strong submissive behaviour is he now not within the standard anylonger?

Cäsar that you used for breeding did show no dominant behaviour at all and instead shy behaviour on several occasions, did you breed with a non-standard dog? Or did you get to know these dogs well enough to know that their behaviour was due to special situations?

And still, what is the problem with the special dog the discussion started about? How well do you know him?

Ina,

she is Margo.......she knows everything, every dogs and of course she has always the answers.........
For me Juri is a good caractered dog, not extra dominant and absolutly handable........Casar..hmmm..I don't want to write my oppinion about his caracter here...only one, he is everything but not selfconfident.
Borko....hehehe..we travelled together several times, he was my friends's dog, so maybe I know him more than you, Margo.......

And when a dog is well socialized for me not equal that would have saarloose caracter.............anyway Margo, how many saarloose you have????????
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:38   #64
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I spoke many times with Mr. Hartl about the beginnings of a cross breed of the dog's natures. Crossing the wolf and the dog is not easy ... involvement could not be submissive dogs. Wolf- female needed a dominant dog. I think that this - the original genes are present in nature csv, still clearly visible. Working with this dog is complicated .... like to get involved in their breeding dogs quiet and easy to use. But my heart belongs to a dominant dog
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:51   #65
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
Sorry again, as I know Juri very well and you obviously find his character within the standard, he is not dominant, he is selfconfident and showing body signals of dominance in special situation towards other dogs.
Why for you a NORMAL dog is something wrong?!?!? Please READ IT ONE MORE TIME!!!

Margo: One more question: if you believe in your words why did you use Carr, Juri, Geri? All of them are "dominant" dogs (I personally call them "normal").
According to this what Edith wrote - a normal dog (for her) is dog which behaves like CASTRATE. Or Saarloos....
Juri, Carr and Geri are not like this. They are NORMAL dogs according the breed standard for CzW and according the norms given for normal dogs. But because of it they DO NOT FIT to Edith's expectations!

Sorry, but what you can not change is the reality. Everybody knows Juri or Carr and everybody knows Gisotsu or Yam, and they are TOTALLY different dogs.

Quote:
And after a little bit of training and keeping rules he is absolutely no problem with other dogs but stays calm, does he now no longer fit the standard?
When he meets his mother or grandmother he is showing strong submissive behaviour is he now not within the standard anylonger?
Sorry, but I do not understand your problem... I know Juri good enough. I like his character very much and he is typical male with stable character. Very friendly one. Like his father.
Why is it wrong according to you? Is is wrong that he do not act like dummy with low batteries?

Quote:
Cäsar that you used for breeding did show no dominant behaviour at all and instead shy behaviour on several occasions, did you breed with a non-standard dog? Or did you get to know these dogs well enough to know that their behaviour was due to special situations?
Yes, I saw him may times. Also in private. I know that Jorg had no time to socialize him and it is sometimes still visible. But I also know his real character - really nice animal. And thanks to his active, friendly but still typical CzW characters his puppies won a lot of popularity, and many, many dog shows... They are really easy to handle.

But you know - what I really dont like are the ettiquetes put on dogs without any reason... I remember the time when people called Grey Wolf a extremly agressive dog - ONLY because he was trained as watch dog (he was working as security dog). And what? His offsprings have great characters (look Farouk). Many called Carr and "agressive" dog because since he has female at home he started to be dominant against some males. And what? He is father of dogs which have one of the best characters by CzW. The same is with being shy - what is SHY dog? Shy dog is a dog which had GOOD socialization but still he is trying to escape. Believe me - you can have a Wolfdog with the most perfect character but iof you not not socilize it it will become "shy". Even is the genes are simply perfect....
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:00   #66
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For me Juri is a good caractered dog, not extra dominant and absolutly handable........
I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.

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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
Casar..hmmm..I don't want to write my oppinion about his caracter here...only one, he is everything but not selfconfident...
Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs?

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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
Borko....hehehe..we travelled together several times, he was my friends's dog, so maybe I know him more than you, Margo.......
Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:08   #67
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Originally Posted by Margo View Post
I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.



Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs?



Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?


???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????
I wrote they didn't want to kill each other...I think it is not the same things !
Slow and lazy like an old pekingese????? ohhhhh so where were the eyes' of the judges when put him in the firts place several times...several times!!!!

And please don't write about Casar to us: many of us know him very well !!!!!!
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:11   #68
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Originally Posted by Margo
Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:15   #69
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activ and dominant are two diferent things.
Activ dog can be without agresion and passiv dog can be with agresion

like one example from one dog show:
I saw one passive dog in ring with active dog - diferent is very big
both was without animal or people agresion but both was diferent in temperament.
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:22   #70
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But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

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Old 24-11-2010, 16:26   #71
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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

Edit
WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:29   #72
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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.
I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour...

Far away from being a pug....
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:29   #73
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WHAT !!!!! You want say - used a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs
Drugs ????
What a hell are you talking about?????
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:34   #74
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[quote=Margo;339866] I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour...


I have never told the opposit...........
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:35   #75
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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
Drugs ????
What a hell are you talking about?????
Dog all time have this same temperament _ NOT charakter but temperament- and IF you say in dog show he is calm in home not - this are one idea .. drugs.
I not believe in people to much - they used this - and I saw dogs with this in dog show. ( in mind have not only CSW but and moore breeds) and who are diferents I know very well.
but make this or not- this are this people conscience.
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:37   #76
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p.s. Jasmine I not used Your name or name your dogs. Why You have this stron reaction? ....????
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:41   #77
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Dog all time have this same temperament _ NOT charakter but temperament- and IF you say in dog show he is calm in home not - this are one idea .. drugs.
I not believe in people to much - they used this - and I saw dogs with this in dog show. ( in mind have not only CSW but and moore breeds) and who are diferents I know very well.
but make this or not- this are this people conscience.
?????
I haven't seen him at home , and I think you didn't either, so we couldn't tell anything about his behaviour when he is at home....but we were together in Zakopane......he was not sleepy.


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Old 24-11-2010, 16:42   #78
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p.s. Jasmine I not used Your name or name your dogs. Why You have this stron reaction? ....????

Daiva,


you wrote your drug-answer to my post.........
of course I react !!!!

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Old 24-11-2010, 16:44   #79
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Default "Aggressive and dominant"

Ok, obviously i need to explain how i have meant this words:
Originally Posted by jasmine
I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.
Originally posted by Silvester:
Yeah, that´s right - it´s exactly my opinion also !

I meant it only in the way of : Not TOO aggressive and not TOO dominant !

Of course i agree in generally with what Margo told here - I also would not like to have a Csw with character of a Golden retriever or as shy as a Saarloos, no question !.

I think it´s very much a question also on what someone personally makes for him/herself the definition of "aggressive " or "dominant" .

As i wrote above - I meant it only in the way of : Not TOO much aggressive!

And I think there can be no discussion about this - for we all don`t need pitbulls in the jacket and mask of Csw !

Best greetings to all

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Old 24-11-2010, 16:48   #80
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Daiva,


you wrote your drug-answer to my post.........
of course I react !!!!

Edit
ah , ok

Jasmine Why You think I speak about this dog? I speak about two diferent dogs type who now egzist- one passive or sleepihng others normal- activ. Not think please- world not runn only about CW dogs
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