DM test for CsW is available!

[mijke]

After the topic about Degenerative Myolopathy : http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11683 now I can announce this:

Thanks to Bruno Lanssens and his CsW Justine Stella Atoi de Louba Tar the DM DNA test for the CsW breed is validated!



Stella was affected with DM and the gen deformation was the same as in other breeds.

The van Haeringen lab did test with SOD1, so also in all other labs that make SOD1 can now a CsW be DNA tested for DM!

In the mean time some other CsW's were also tested for DM, but not all owners did want to publish the results.
Only one owner did send a copy of the results, and this was of a male CsW that was affected from a total different line as Stella.

The 3 possible results of a DNA DM test are:
Dutch language:

• Vrij
• Drager
• Lijder

In German language:

• N/N (normal)
• DM/N (Träger)
• DM/DM (Betroffen)

In English language:

• Normal
• Carrier
• Affected

Vrij/ NN /normal, means that the dog has no gene mutation
Drager/ DM/N / carrier , means that the dog is carrier of the mutated gene and can spread this
Lijder/DM/DM / Affected means that the dog has this disease

[Mikael]

Thanks Mijke

And some info...

Originally Posted by Mijke


Explanation in English about what is degenerative myelopathy (of Michigan veterinary specialists)

• Degenerative myelopathy is a condition that results in progressive paralysis of the hind limbs in middle-aged to older German Shepherd dogs.
• The cause of this degeneration is unknown, but the underlying disease is degeneration of the white matter in the spinal cord.
• The white matter is the portion of the spinal cord responsible for transmitting information between the brain and the body.

More info in English language about this subject:

http://www.michvet.com/library/neuro...myelopathy.asp

Best regards / Mikael

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Thanks Mijke

And some info...



Best regards / Mikael

thanks for info, this is by no means new health issue with the CWS i am sure many dogs over the years have had this and it has just been put down to old age, or bad hips,as in the GSD as well, i was with Cop z Kladenské záøe for 2 yrs and his movment got worse with time, i dont like talking about the dog for my wife and i loved him a lot, he was a great dog and had a wounderful character he called him the old git, when we excercised him he always ran off, he never came back till he was ready, just a typical CWS did as he pleased, it is not his fault what he produced but people must be aware of things to prevent other dogs suffering in the future,,

[elf]

Hi Mijke,

Thanks for your work, and thanks to Bruno !

>Lijder/DM/DM / Affected means that the dog has this disease

Means "At-risk" to develop the disease right ?

[mijke]

An animal can be free and has in that situation two healthy alleles. When used in breeding this animal will not become ill due to the disease. It cannot spread the disease in the population.

An animal can be carrier and has in that situation one healthy and one disease allele. When used in breeding theoretically 50 percent of the offspring will receive the disease allele. Carriers will not become ill.

An animal can be affected and has in that situation two disease alleles. When used in breeding all offspring will also receive the disease allele. Affected dogs will become ill.

I am convinced that it is only a matter of time, that all diseases that we now can see in GSD and SWH breed will appear in CsW.
But because we now have DNA tests for Dwarfism and DM we also can find out how these diseases are spread in the breed.

In the dwarfism mutation we see it is more spread (in several lines) then thought.
In DM we know now only the official results of 2 CsW's (from different lines) who were affected. And I am sure there are a lot more.
But because this disease appears when the dog is older, it is not always recognized (by owner or vet) as DM.

So at least it would be a good reason for owners of older dogs with these kind of problems to make the DNA test!
But also for all owners and breeders it is a good suggestion to test , to see if and how this mutation is spread.

But of course this is always a personal choice!

As I did said before, in all labs that make the DNA test for DM can be made a test for a CsW. Because now we know the mutation in SOD1-Gen is the same for CsW breed.

For example in: van Haeringen lab in Holland

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Dr. van Haeringen lab . BV
P.O. Box 408
6700 AK Wageningen
The Netherlands

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language
HERE you can download a form in English language

The price is Euro 59,50 ex BTW
An owner receives a bill together with the test result

Or in: Laboklin labor in Germany

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Laboklin Labor
Postbox 1810
97668 Bad Kissingen
Deutschland

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in German language.

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in German language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in English language

[elf]

In fact I was thinking about what would be a clever breeding program regarding DM for CSV, because if one looks at OFA statistic for GSD here it is ( http://www.offa.org/dnateststats.html ):

GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
CLEAR 213 46%
CARRIER 151 33%
AT RISK 98 21%
TOTAL ABNORMAL 249 54%
TOTAL TESTED 462

So 54% abnormal...

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

An animal can be free and has in that situation two healthy alleles. When used in breeding this animal will not become ill due to the disease. It cannot spread the disease in the population.

An animal can be carrier and has in that situation one healthy and one disease allele. When used in breeding theoretically 50 percent of the offspring will receive the disease allele. Carriers will not become ill.

An animal can be affected and has in that situation two disease alleles. When used in breeding all offspring will also receive the disease allele. Affected dogs will become ill.

I am convinced that it is only a matter of time, that all diseases that we now can see in GSD and SWH breed will appear in CsW.
But because we now have DNA tests for Dwarfism and DM we also can find out how these diseases are spread in the breed.

In the dwarfism mutation we see it is more spread (in several lines) then thought.
In DM we know now only the official results of 2 CsW's (from different lines) who were affected. And I am sure there are a lot more.
But because this disease appears when the dog is older, it is not always recognized (by owner or vet) as DM.

So at least it would be a good reason for owners of older dogs with these kind of problems to make the DNA test!
But also for all owners and breeders it is a good suggestion to test , to see if and how this mutation is spread.

But of course this is always a personal choice!

As I did said before, in all labs that make the DNA test for DM can be made a test for a CsW. Because now we know the mutation in SOD1-Gen is the same for CsW breed.

For example in: van Haeringen lab in Holland

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Dr. van Haeringen lab . BV
P.O. Box 408
6700 AK Wageningen
The Netherlands

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language
HERE you can download a form in English language

The price is Euro 59,50 ex BTW
An owner receives a bill together with the test result

Or in: Laboklin labor in Germany

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Laboklin Labor
Postbox 1810
97668 Bad Kissingen
Deutschland

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in German language.

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in German language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in English language

truth hurts ill put it all on my wed site then private mail everyone

[jmvdwiel]

On page 4 of his link http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/20...12297106SI.pdf you can see a movie about the different stages of DM, from mild ataxie which the dog doesn't hurt til severe problems and the end stage that also the front legs and the swallowing are affected, I don't think you want this to happen to YOUR dog ........

On this link you can read more scientific stuf about the test and the resembles whith a human disease
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/8/2794.full.pdf+html

My conclusion would be... make a wise decision with the knowledge you are provided.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by elf

In fact I was thinking about what would be a clever breeding program regarding DM for CSV, because if one looks at OFA statistic for GSD here it is ( http://www.offa.org/dnateststats.html ):

GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
CLEAR 213 46%
CARRIER 151 33%
AT RISK 98 21%
TOTAL ABNORMAL 249 54%
TOTAL TESTED 462

So 54% abnormal...

Hmmmm.. I think that is a bit complicated on this moment.

We just did start with testing and don't have a clue how many dogs will be carrier or affected.
Besides that it is know that not all affected ones become ill between 8 and 10years. Some of them have other problems or die before they have DM problems. And with other dogs the problems develop when they are 13 years or older.

The research of Missouri recommends:
We recommend that dog breeders take into consideration the DM test results as they plan their breeding programs; however, they should not over-emphasize this test result. Instead, the test result is one factor among many in a balanced breeding program.

And I agree with this! We should not over react on DM.
There will appear more diseases (and tests for this) in future.

Most of the Carriers and Affected dogs will have also good genes for the future of the breed! And we can't afford to exclude all these dogs for the gene pool of the breed.

We need time to reduce this disease!
So maybe we can choose to make combinations Affected x Free and Carrier x Free (and of course Free x Free ).
Then you don't create Affected ones any more
And yes indeed than you are still spreading the defect gene in the population.
But when you want to exclude all the Carriers and Affected ones, you can wait for other new genetic diseases!

But I hope everyone realizes also that although when we don't exclude dogs, it is very important to test as many dogs as we can!

A bit of topic:
After I did receive some questions about DNA tests for MD, I also want to explain another thing.

The test that is validated for CsW is based on MDO1 gene. This is the same test that is developed in Missouri (Click HERE for more info about all Missouri research)

Besides this on internet is also to find info about the DM Flash test 1101 (of dr Clemmons) in Florida. But there was never a scientific publication about this test, and I was informed by specialist that this test is not trustful.

[jmvdwiel]

Hi here again some video material I found and did want to share with you all. Those video's were made before the DNA test was available, but wil provide you with some more information about DM.
http://www.akcchf.org/video/viewer.cfm?vid=1

And when you have a dog with DM here is a video how to care for this dog, I don't think I would go that far with a dog of mine.. but that is something that every owner has to deside for himself.
http://www.akcchf.org/video/viewer.cfm?vid=2

So I think we have the tool now to get rid of this problem in the future, see for yourself and again... wise decisions to be made.

[Mikael]

Thanks

Poor poor dogs

I will test all my dogs for DM

Very best regards / Mikael

[jmvdwiel]

more video materials at
http://video.google.nl/videosearch?h...ed=0CB0QqwQwAw#

you can even give your dog a nice wheelchair until her frontleg wil collaps also , so delay of execution

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by mijke

A bit of topic:
After I did receive some questions about DNA tests for MD, I also want to explain another thing.

The test that is validated for CsW is based on MDO1 gene. This is the same test that is developed in Missouri (Click HERE for more info about all Missouri research)

Besides this on internet is also to find info about the DM Flash test 1101 (of dr Clemmons) in Florida. But there was never a scientific publication about this test, and I was informed by specialist that this test is not trustful.

Thanks Mijke!

On my next pay check, I will test at least a couple of dogs, and then the other two on the paycheck after that. The Missouri test is better for another reason - in the US (or anywhere), the results are displayed on the OFA database, along with all of our dog's other information (except for PennHip results - hopefully UPenn will have an online database someday). The cost for this test is US$65.

Marcy

[draggar]

A good friend of ours lost her GSD from DM. One year he was #25 in the world for schutzhund and about 18-24 months later he had to be put down. The DM came into his system quickly and didn't hold back at all. One day he was a little sensitive in his foot and about 8 months later the owner had to put him down. We were all devastated.

The good news is that even a dog with the A/A gene, if bred to a N/N dog the puppies would be, at worst, carriers. If a carrier (N/A) is bred to a N/N dog, then all the dogs will be N/N.

It's sad to see so many GSD breeders refuse to test their dogs, "I don't worry, DM isn't in my lines". How can you tell if you've never tested them?

The test is around $65 (US) and run by OFA - well worth the price. We DM tested our GSD and she's N/N.

[jmvdwiel]

If a carrier(N/A is bred to a N/N dog, than half of the dogs wil be N/N and half wil be N/A (so all healthy!!)

If a A/A is crossed with an N/N all dogs wil be cariers !!!! (so all healthy) a little nuance difference.

Originally Posted by draggar

The good news is that even a dog with the A/A gene, if bred to a N/N dog the puppies would be, at worst, carriers. If a carrier (N/A) is bred to a N/N dog, then all the dogs will be N/N.

[draggar]

Let me look into it. I might have a contact in UFl in Ganesville, or have a contact who has a contact there.

[jmvdwiel]

http://www.k-9cart.com/Pet-Wheelchai...eelchairs.html

I stole a little bit of text from this site and supplemented it with my own

All dogs carry two copies of the SOD1 gene. The genetic testing results will tell you if the mutation is present and if so whether one or both genes is involved. Possible results:
· Normal/Normal (N/N): Both genes are normal and do NOT carry the defect in the SOD1 gene. In the seven dog breeds that the University of Missouri has extensively studied, no dog that has two normal genes has ever had a confirmed diagnosis of DM. If used in a dog breeding program, N/N dogs will pass the normal gene onto the puppies. Thus, the puppies should be free of DM also.
· Abnomal/Normal (A/N): This dog has one normal and one abnormal gene and is called a "carrier." Carrier dogs in the seven breeds studied by the University of Missouri have never had a confirmed case of DM. However, as a carrier, this dog could transfer the abnormal gene to the puppies.
· Abnormal/Abnormal (A/A): This dog has two abnormal copies of the SOD1 gene and is at risk for developing DM. All dogs that have had confirmed cases of DM that were tested by the University of Missouri in their study also had two abnormal genes. However, not all dogs that will test positive (A/A) and be at risk will show signs of DM. In part, this is because DM is a disease of middle to old age. So younger at risk dogs may not look normal and not show signs until much older. Some of the at risk dogs may never reach an old enough age to show signs. But all dogs that are A/A will pass on one copy of the genetic defect to their puppies.

SORRY BUT ALL THE DOTS SHOULD BE OPEN SPACES BUT THAT DIDN"T WORK

Possible crossings:
NN X NN Male and female have two normal genes: male: N and N female NN
.....N.......N
N ..NN...NN
N...NN...NN so all normal dogs

NN X AN or AN X NN Male or female has to normal genes and the other one is a Carrier
.....A.....N
N..AN...NN
N..AN...NN so half is AN (carier) and half is NN (normal)


NA X NA male and female are cariers
........N.......A
N.....NN....NA
A.....NA....AA , so 1/4 NN (normal) , 1/2 NA (carier), and 1/4 AA(affected)

AA X AN or AN X AA Male or female has 2 Affected genes and the other one is a carier
.....A.....A
A ..AA..AA
N...AN..AN so half AA (affected) and half AN (carier)


AA X NN or NN X AA Male or female is affeced and th other one is Normal
.....A....A
N...NA...NA
N...NA...NA so al wil be cariers and not sick

AA x AA Male and female have two affected genes
.....A....A
A..AA ..AA
A ..AA ..AA so all dog wil be AA (affected)

[draggar]

Fred got back to me with "Here's my latest with DM" (and asked me to put it on his site):
http://www.fredlanting.org/2010/02/t...athy%E2%80%9D/

While I didn't see the article go into the actual genetics, your way (jmvdwiel) makes more sense (my way would have had the disease elimiated naturally unless there was either very bad luck or far more A/A dogs than believed).

Still - this means an A/A lines could have the DM "bred out" in two generations.

A/A to an N/N - All "carriers"
N/A to another N/A - half carriers, half not carriers (no DM).

It's sad that so many GSD breeders refuse to test for DM but claim "it's not in my lines!" (yet how do you know if you don't test?). Any dog that we consider to breed to Kiri has to be DM tested.

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Thanks Mijke!

On my next pay check, I will test at least a couple of dogs, and then the other two on the paycheck after that. The Missouri test is better for another reason - in the US (or anywhere), the results are displayed on the OFA database, along with all of our dog's other information (except for PennHip results - hopefully UPenn will have an online database someday). The cost for this test is US$65.

Marcy

Did you test Luna's parents? What were the results?

$65 is well worth the test.

[jmvdwiel]

NA x NA gives 1/4 NN (normal dogs), 1/2 NA (cariers) and 1/4 AA (affected dogs)!!!!, SO 3/4 healthy dogs but 1/4 sick dogs !!!

NA if you want to eliminate the gen should be crossed with NN, but this might be an utopia, but time/money and the effort of the breeders wil say wat is going to happen

Sorry I did forget this one in my former post (shame on me )

[quote=draggar;281016]
A/A to an N/N - All "carriers"
N/A to another N/A - half carriers, half not carriers (no DM).

quote]

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by draggar

Did you test Luna's parents? What were the results?

$65 is well worth the test.

The test (or rather, it's validity for the CSV) came out after the litter was on the ground. But, as stated before, next paycheck, the test will be done.

Marcy