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Health and nutrition How to feed a Wolfdog, information about dog food, how to vaccinate and what to do if the dog gets ill.... |
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28-12-2010, 17:47 | #81 |
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For everybody who's saying a dog who is a carrier don't have to become ill.
Tell it please to Michael, his dog Falco Crying Wolf will be 9 years old in Jan 2011 and he's already ill for almost 1 year. And who now says but that is an old dog cant be an owner of a TWD. My own dog Hogan sky is an carrier of DM and I will make sure he's never bread with an untested bitch. Gr Tatiana |
28-12-2010, 18:09 | #82 |
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Hi Tatti,
Just for exactness' of terminology sake, a Carrier (DM/N) can't get ill. An Affected (DM/DM) as Falco (and his brother Forrest here in Italy ) sadly indeed can. Anyway... the more dogs we test the more we'll know about the spreading of the illness... Last edited by Enid Black; 28-12-2010 at 18:43. |
28-12-2010, 18:33 | #83 | ||
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Gr Tatiana |
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28-12-2010, 19:11 | #84 |
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Very wise words.
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Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws |
29-12-2010, 21:05 | #85 |
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I would say true, very wise and also farmerswisdom, and miss the point that is being made..specially we do not know what other diseases our dogs might carry i only see more reasons for testing and being open about those we do know about and being more carefull abou he combinations we make... but getting back to my earlier question that is sadly still unanswered, can someone give me the name of just one dog with dm/dm that has reached the age of 10 without showing any symptons? |
29-12-2010, 21:57 | #86 |
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In the document Understanding and Applying ThE Genetic Test for Degenerative Myelopathy there is an interesting stat:
"For the DM test dogs coming back "At-Risk" is the probability that the dog will later develop the disease known? Are there any statistics on frequency or number seen of affected dogs in the general Chesapeake population? As we do not know the other factors that cause the clinical onset of DM, we cannot predict what percentage of dogs testing “At-Risk” (homozygous for the susceptibility gene) will develop the disease. Dr. Coates’ research of the Veterinary Medical Database (VMDB) showed that 13 of 1,567 (0.83%) Chesapeake Bay Retrievers presenting to veterinary teaching hospitals had clinical DM. Presently, 15% of Chesapeake Bay Retrievers test “At-Risk” for DM. It is obvious that the vast majority of “At-Risk” dogs will not develop DM."
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30-12-2010, 23:49 | #87 | |
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At the age of 13 she was running and jumping, but apparently suffered when walking upstairs. |
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30-12-2010, 23:56 | #88 | |
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*edit, not meant as to label any offspring, just cause i have seen dogs that suffer from the disease and have been put to sleep because of it at an unfair early age and since i first heard of it several yrs ago, the information and research has been intensified and new info seems to get out daily, i am very interested Last edited by nanouk; 30-12-2010 at 23:58. |
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31-12-2010, 01:32 | #89 | ||
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What I can do - I will travel to visit some of them in May. I can try to take some videos of them (the videos will not show the heads but the movement)... And it is no wonder - Wolfdogs are different in this case... Just look - DM is not a NEW illness. It has been in the "blood" of your dogs since founding of the breed because it came from German Shepherds... The DM tests are avaible for a long time... Vets know this illness very well - many GSDs suffer from it... Why for many years there was not even one case of person who wrote about such problems by his/her dog? Why nobody wrote that Wolfdogs can have DM? The answer is simply: because even if there are pretty many CzWs which are "carriers" and "affected" only VERY small amount of DM/DM dogs show serious symptoms... In the 12 years I saw hundreds of Wolfdogs. But not even one which had such problems as Forrest. Sure that DM appears by CzWs too - but it appears when the dogs are already old (8+). And the symtoms are not so good visible... It is why the illness was "hidden" for so many years: many people, even if they saw a DM/DM dog though (because of the age of the dogs) that they walk "different" because of their age... Nobody though it can be symtom of any other "illess" than the most known: old age.... Quote:
But here you forgot one thing - Falco is brother of Forrest (the dog from the video). Both are DM/DM, both get ill in the (pretty) early age and by both dogs the illness develop very fast... It doesn't mean it apply for all other "affected" dogs... It means only that exactly by this "family" there must be something in the genes what "activate" the illness... And exactly all breeding dogs from this line must be tested. It doesn't mean other dogs do not need to be tested. It means only that by the dogs with similar ancestors a DM test is a must...
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31-12-2010, 01:52 | #90 | |
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What would be also interesting is the age when the 0.83% get ill... ======= I'm not for ignoring the DM problem - because it is really important to make bigger reseach and to test as much dogs as possible... But the whole "DM panic" started by some breeders is really without sense. Because now we miss one VERY important thing... There are lines by CzWs which have SERIOUS problems to move properly already at the age of 2-4 YEARS... And some dogs from these lines have been tested with N/N. So for 100% they do not have DM... They are also HD-free... So there must be also some kind of much more "dangerous" "illness" that DM... At the moment some breeders went crazy for DM tests and there are already some which decided not to use DM-carriers but took "DM clear" dogs from... the "bad walking" lines. So for sure their puppies will not have DM problems at the age of 10, 11, 12... 15 years. But it is very possible they get problems already at the age of 2 years.... (because of the hip problems which are not diagnosed now)...
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Last edited by z Peronówki; 31-12-2010 at 01:54. |
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31-12-2010, 01:54 | #91 |
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No, she wasn't. She had no pedigree nor breeding rights and we knew nothing about her origins. We found her as a puppy in a park http://wolfdog.org/eng/articles/1268.html
PS. When Tina fell ill, she had her blood tested several times and she had no traces of tumour or other cancer. Her detailed blood test results were always perfect or close to perfect. Last edited by Rona; 31-12-2010 at 09:15. |
31-12-2010, 10:30 | #92 | |
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Similarly, the panic does not make sense. But this panic can rule only where there is lack of knowledge, all you need to know for a clear and thorough knowledge of DM can be easily found. In Italy was held a meeting with Dr Gandini, a leading veterinary neurologists in Europe, which is contact and follows the staff of Professor Coates that has discovered the gene SOD1 and developed the test. It states that there are more serious problems before considering the DM (and I'm not doubting that there are) talking about alleged problems of movement, in unspeakable blood lines, I find it not very scientific and serious. This problem is a disease or a problem due to poor physical construction? What would be the dogs with? I'm always interested in health problems and all information that may contribute to genetic improvement of the breed. Could you open a thread, and in addition to a serious research (as did Mijke for DM) about this problem? |
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31-12-2010, 10:53 | #93 | |
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It 's more useful to consider that the probability of finding a recessive gene as homozygous (DM / DM) is directly proportional to the higher inbreeding coefficient. Last edited by woland77; 31-12-2010 at 11:19. |
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31-12-2010, 12:01 | #94 | ||
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http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html Last edited by elf; 31-12-2010 at 12:04. |
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31-12-2010, 13:38 | #95 | |
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Did it get worse whit age ? Best regards / Mikael
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31-12-2010, 14:09 | #96 |
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On the dogs today that are Affected and ill, can one see anyhing that has any similarities ??? Like high COI % or Line ???
And NO names please ! Very best regards / Mikael
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_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
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31-12-2010, 15:11 | #97 | |
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DNA testing is pretty new - the universities are just developing them... But it was possible to test DM already since several years. Since 2008 you have the "official" test. But before some laboratories made researches and I know polish breeders (not CzW breeders) which send samples to USA before 2008 to help to develop it... 2 years long nobody was interested in testing CzW for DM... Long time in the world of DNA tests...
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31-12-2010, 15:45 | #98 | |
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I know the possibility of test on end of 2009, i have made my research and i test my bitch on March of 2010. Many owner know the test from some mounth, although Mijke inform us on 2009. Last edited by woland77; 31-12-2010 at 15:55. |
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31-12-2010, 16:09 | #99 | |
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Look - the cases of DM by dogs were known for many years... It was pretty known illness... It is why universities started to investigate how it is heritated... They asked for blood samples of healthy and ill dogs which helped them to prepare "official" tests.... Polish breeders send samples for the researches which were made before 2008...... It is like with dwarfs - some dogs were tested by the Dutch laboratory BEFORE the official test was "published"... I hope now it is clear....
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01-01-2011, 15:29 | #100 |
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Yes is clear, but Dr Gandini say us different cronology about the first tests done for research (not ufficial) by Uni Missouri, outside of the first sample of dog on wich the research develop. But is not very important
Important is the fact that in their choices of breeding, aimed at combating a disease, a test can be considered valid only after all the necessary scientific availment, and then from 2009, which is a recent test. All Veterinay says than is new the possibility to select in breeding (with all scientific bases) SOD1 gene. |
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